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So, stealing a gremlins thread for i found it interesting. 

 

What is our ranking is on effectiveness of our masters?

 

My first thought coming back to malifaux is:

Kirai

I find ikiryo to be semi broken to deal with. 

Reva

Damage output on her is insane i feel with such ansurd ranges. When my opponent is terrified of a mindless zombie, i have succeeded at (un) life.

Nico

Nico/mcmourning/molly i feel are reaaly close str wise, so my experience in playing them has them listed in this order.

Mcmourning

Molly

Seamus

I find the things he wants to fo can be done by reva as easiliy.

Yan lo

I feel like this master spins his wheels a lot but with very little impact on the game.

Tara

Besides beast bombing, i dont see what she can do in rezzers that we need.

Edited by Kinginyello
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Kirai

Reva

Molly

McMourning

Nicodem

Yan Lo

Tara

Seamus

 

Yan Lo, Tara, and Seamus are definitely the bottom but the order can change.  Personally I feel that everything Seamus wants to do and play like is a garbage version of Leveticus, who actually plays as a serial killer sneaking in from the shadows to murder someone and then slink away undetected.

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23 minutes ago, Purple Armadillo said:

Kirai

Reva

Molly

McMourning

Nicodem

Yan Lo

Tara

Seamus

 

Yan Lo, Tara, and Seamus are definitely the bottom but the order can change.  Personally I feel that everything Seamus wants to do and play like is a garbage version of Leveticus, who actually plays as a serial killer sneaking in from the shadows to murder someone and then slink away undetected.

Unfortunately, especially after the release of Reva, I feel that Seamus is just a 6 inch WP debuff that's jut not worth trying to kill.

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Really sad to see, that Seamus is now the last place. But at least my feeling that he is underpowered compared to most other masters (from other factions) is now entitled.

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I think if Seamus got a new Belle unit that could put the "no eyes on me" status on him he might be a little better. Pretty much how Zoraida got the wisps to take the hem action for her. A master that, at the height of his effectiveness, has to use 1 tactical, 1 focus, and shoot once, is predictable and puts every egg in one basket.
The only times I'll play him is when I want the valedictorian to have an effective CA9 on lecture notes. But then again, to get the most of Seamus's -2wp he has to be in the dead middle of the enemy crew, relying on the tactical from Red Chapel Killer. 

Another good use is having Datsue Ba hit more reliably, but in that case Necrotic King from Nicodem is better for granting the severe on her WP attack.

Please Wyrd, I want some incentive to play the master that got me into the game :(

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Y'all are way undervaluing the power of positioning in this game. Yan Lo and Tara are definitely competitive tier, probably better than resser McMourning or Reva (one dimensional masters, really rough when you first run into them but not too hard to play against when you know what you're doing - Viks style). Of course they're worse than Kirai but she's largely OP and it's hard to rate them relative to Molly/Nicodem because those two bring such flexible summoning games.

Now this is from the perspective of someone who plays against ressers a lot, but I know that Yan Lo and Tara are much more challenging to play against than anything else in the faction. Seamus I'm not sure about. He's the ultimate bully master and he gets work done that way, I just don't know where to place that suite of abilities.

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With Reva I can get a charge in the enemy deplyoment zone at any turn with 1 ap, then I have 2 ap and a 0 action to do whatever I want. I disagree about her being one dimensional.

 

I also don't get the "Cannot take interact actions" limitation

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5 minutes ago, MeatAndFauxtatoes said:

You can get around this by using Sybelle to comply him to teleport out of activation.

Oooooooh. I usually do that to have him take a focus action. My rationale is that if i comply the back alley, they have time to react and engage Seamus. But yeah, if all i need to do is place markers in a sneaky spot... That's awesome :} Hadn't thought of that before!

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He's not dropping Henchmen/Masters, obviously. His abilities enable him to effectively excise the opponent's key synergy pieces. He's brilliant into, say, Gremlins because he drops in, one-shots the Slop Hauler (or whatever) and is more-or-less immune to retaliation. He's fast and lethal enough to easily chase down scheme runners. 

He's not super dramatic, but what he does is basically automatic and there's power in that. If you run him with an eye towards breaking up synergy and gumming up the works you'll see greater success than if you're trying to run him as a Misaki type assassin.

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18 hours ago, Saduhem said:

With Reva I can get a charge in the enemy deplyoment zone at any turn with 1 ap, then I have 2 ap and a 0 action to do whatever I want. I disagree about her being one dimensional.

Relative newbie with Reva.  How exactly are you pulling that off?   Or does it involve Sybelle and Belles dragging her forward in preparation of a Screaming Death trigger and some complacency on the part of your opponent.

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Umm that's not really true.

With a once a turn ability on his attack he can't afford to miss, and with a 6 in the attack stat he can't even generally guarantee the strike reliably, which forces him to attack the lowest defense model possible unless you are willing to lose an entire master activation if you miss. A 6 attack stat is definitely decent when you can attack multiple times, when you can attack once it's less decent.

Again because it's a once a turn ability if you score a weak dmg it's pretty much like you scored 2 hits with a min dmg 2, which would be respectable if he had anything else to do with his AP, but he doesn't. So you can't really afford to attack SS users because if you focus they can offset all the advantages of your focus just by spending a stone. So his main focus is low def non SS users, which would be fine if he excelled at that, but he's no more effective at doing that than McMorning, or Reva is, and they can do other things as well and kill a variety of targets more efficiently.

And unless the terrain is in your favor he really isn't fast. And if it is in your favor you also need the enemy to have no ability to capitalize on the vantage point rules. And being able to chase down scheme runners isn't really anything he excels at. Any kill based master is good at that, and Seamus isn't any more amazing at it than any other resser master.

And as for being immune to counter attack, I haven't found that remotely true. 

Seamus' issues are a very conservative design which was instituted rightly at the time, little to no support of useful wp attacks on models Seamus is likely to hire and find useful since, mostly, the first wave, and a game structure that has evolved in design both in how the game is won, and in model design that has left him behind.

The no interact clause makes total sense when looked at when he was designed and the other models that were out at the time, in addition to how VP were scored. It makes less sense now when comparing it to teleports other masters get that don't have the restriction, or when comparing it to abilities like practiced production, which would also never have been released in current form if they had been part of the initial wave.

I think at this point it's just a case of the game and the relative recent design of released models just having evolved incidentally away from what he allows, while other masters with their suite of abilities have just gone with the flow of how the game has evolved better. 

You can certainly win with him. But if you are looking at faction to faction balance he doesn't bring anything to the table that another master doesn't excel at better, and if you are looking at master to master balance there are other all rounders just designed with better offense and flexibility. That's just the situation at present and it isn't as if he is alone in that regard.

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Would really like to see something new for Seamus - maybe we are lucky and there`s something in the make in the new playtesting stuff? :)

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1 hour ago, Tris said:

Would really like to see something new for Seamus - maybe we are lucky and there`s something in the make in the new playtesting stuff? :)

Not sure. The very way he works makes him very limited. One action can only be taken when not in LoS or close to a corpse marker (if you take the upgrade), the other action can be taken only once per turn. A black joker on either will absolutely ruin your day. He would need a re-work more than new tools.
At least that's what I think.
And I REALLY want to love Seamus...

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4 minutes ago, Saduhem said:

Not sure. The very way he works makes him very limited. One action can only be taken when not in LoS or close to a corpse marker (if you take the upgrade), the other action can be taken only once per turn. A black joker on either will absolutely ruin your day. He would need a re-work more than new tools.
At least that's what I think.
And I REALLY want to love Seamus...

Event that could be solved with one to two well rounded upgrades, imo.

But yeah, we`ll just wait and see - and hope :)

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Indeed we will need to wait and see. Without knowledge of what they are thinking for wave 5, if they were looking to just do some minor changes and if I were suggesting I would do the following:

Add a clause to Feast of Fear that allows the healing or removal of one condition but not both for a failed wp duel.

Increase the shooting stat to a 7 or alter the once per Turn clause to only be used once successfully each turn so he could take multiple shots but only connect once per turn.

Remove the no interact clause from Back Ally. Many masters now have low cost place/teleports, that while true they don't move as far as back Ally, have vastly less costly requirements to use. A 6" place that only requires a 6+ and allows an interact afterwords, is vastly better than a 10" place that has to end in 1" of blocking terrain, requires a 7+, requires being out of LoS of the entire enemy crew and prevents you from being able to take an interact. Which while we are on the subject Zoraida's Animal Form could also most likely stand to lose the in interact clause. If a master wants to spend all 3 of her AP to drop a scheme marker within 16" she probably should be able to do so.

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If his -2 WP were baseline and not part of the upgrade, he would live up to his fluff and could take bag of tools. This way, you still only shoot once per turn, you still offer support to the rest of the crew, but you are not completely useless in melee and you have scheme marker placement potential with the trigger on Bag of Tools.

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I think if we can accurately say "Seamus is the worst Master in Resurrectionists" then Resur masters are all doing pretty Ok.

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I personally dont find seamus that weak. I play him a lot. Its very survivable and wp debuff ruins many peoples day. For me he's great at extraction and guard the stash. I dont use his big gun that much. I usually blow up corpses, rise belles and jump around when needed. Nurses are just crazy with him around. #loveseamus

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These master are considering played only with res. pieces?

Because i have played many times vs tara like res. (obviously with a mix with outcasts pieces)

I think that she is a super versatile, and she can excel almost every schemes or strategies

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I've played tara quite a lot and I enjoy VERY MUCH her playstyle but his biggest problem is that she is terribly vulnerable to ml attacks while she usually has to be in the thick of it to hand out fast and slow and she is quite sluggish too. She is a decent master, only if she had any defensive trigger in ml, movement trick or her bury-unbury mechanic wasnt so costly/complicated... (I hate having to take death marshals for efficient burying)  Out of having fun I would chose other resser masters for competitive playing.

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