how would you rate our masters?

[Folomo]

As a new Gremlim player, I am interested in knowing your personal opinion and/or experience on how you rate our 8 masters, from first (1) to last (8).

 

[wizuriel]

1) Somer - Really good generalist and with the right crew doesn't really have any bad schemes or strats

2) Zipp - Also a good generalist. Good damage and really annoys your opponents. 

2) Wong - Same as Zipp. Not as annoying to fight against but more damage. If the enemy groups up he will just wipe our that cluster (unless they are immune to blasts or pulses, then he is sad)

4) Ulix - Strong summoner and corn husked pigs can really ruin people's day (yes you can just hire Pigs and Old Major to use Corn Husks (which are probably on him anyways) but Ulix just maximizes pigs better than anyone else imo so giving this to him)

5) Ophelia - She got hurt with the last errata but still a pretty strong master. I just feel Somer can be nearly as killy as her and offers much more support 

6) Brewmaster - Never really got him to work. Seems a lot of setup to maximize drinking party. Can be a strong debuffer and obey master though

6) Gremaida - Same as Brewmaster

8) Mah - Just doesn't really work. Somer and Ophelia imo do more damage and offer more support and are a lot easier to use. 

[codingCaptor]

I'm aiming at a more competitive tournament focused listing here.  However, if you want to know which masters I recommend for new players, I highly recommend getting Ophelia and Somer's box. (both)   It'll cost you <$100, but give you a variety  of models for a variety of different kinds of crews you can run.   Ophelia is a dead simple master that's great for getting into the game (and good for learning how to make best use of the tricks inside our faction) And Somer is an excellent support master that will allow you to field any other models you like and decide to pick up.    The natural progression is a box of Slop Haulers, into whatever else it is you think looks/sounds cool that we have.   But anywho, a list:

 

1)  Somer - Somer is the best Support master in the game, in my opinion.  His ability to give out free suits allows you to build your crew around triggers that you're guarenteed to get off.   And that allows for some serious shenanigans.   But on top of that, he's also one of our biggest damage dealers, with a shooting 4/4/8 damage spread on (requiring a ram, which he can give himself and others)  AND it has Blasts!    There's nothing he can't do well, and regardless of strats and schemes there is a crew you can build that will rock it.

2) Ulix -  Ulix is also really strong, but for slightly different reasons.   His damage output relies on having a strong pig nearby, and while we have a plethora of those once yours dies, he can no longer perform well for dealing damage.   Alternatively, he can summon pigs, which works VERY well in some gametypes, but very poorly in others.    The lack of control over certain pigs can make some schemes hard to run with him though, which is why he's not quite as good as Somer, as there are some schemepools he just has difficulty performing in.

And now, we enter the DPS Block.    Gremlins have 3 masters that don't really rely on crew synergy to be good.   They're just solid masters who do things, and the rest of your crew can be more or less whatever good gremlins models you want to bring.   Also they all hit like a truck.   They're all good, But I always feel that whatever crew I build could have a better leader for them.

3) Zipp - Zipp is maneuverable, survivable, detrimental to enemies, and he doesn't target DF most of the time, making him particularly dangerous in the damage department.  The sky pirate upgrades aren't particularly amazing, but being able to bring them for free makes them worth it.  Zipp can easily go off and distract the entire enemy crew, picking them off, flying around, and generally being obnoxious while everyone else gets the job done.  He's really strong and as we see more of him I suspect he could end up much higher on this list.

4) Wong - Wong is a gremlin all about murdering things, although he has a few scheme marker shenanigans that can't be ignored.   But mostly he just murders.    You let your units bunch up?   They die.    It really forces your opponents to be very careful with each model they move, giving you options to pick off stragglers with the rest of your crew, or just go about your business scoring points.

5) Ophelia - Ophelia is ALSO a gremlin all about murdering things.    The problem with Ophelia is that she has built in synergy with Kin models.  And there aren't any good Kin models.    Don't get me wrong, Rami and Raph have places in crews (I one-shot Zipp with Raph in a tournament a few months ago, for example.)    Even Pere is a useable model.  But they aren't GOOD models, and that really hurts Ophelia's viability in higher tier games.   She can get the job done, she hits harder than any other gremlin master.   But until we get good kin models there's no competitive reason to take her over, say, Somer.    That being said, she's also one of the easiest masters to learn and play well, and she is one of my biggest recommendations to new players.

6) Zoraida - Zoraida is a strong support master in a faction with the strongest support master.    She can't output the damage of Somer, and she can't enable models to perform as well as somer.   She has some interesting tricks with Swampfiends, but there isn't really any Swampfiend synergy going on in gremlins.  She doesn't play like a Gremlin Master (which makes sense since we stole her from Neverborn)   which kind of puts her at odds with the rest of the factions models.   She can be made to work, but for any situation in which she could be used, there are better options up the tree.

7)Brewmaster - When Brewmaster works, he is the most infuriating master to play against in the game.   You basically stand in the middle of the bored, poisoned, trying to walk away, but being unable to because your WP is now 1 or 2.  Or maybe you try to attack, but instead all you end up doing is getting EVEN MORE POISONED.    It's hilarious from the brewmaster players side, and frustrating/unfun on the other side of the board.    Fortunatly for the quality of Malifaux, Brewmaster doesn't work more often than he does.  Losing initiative means your opponent can do whatever they want, and what they want is generally to murder your master preventing you from using any of your shenanigans.   Poison isn't going to kill anything fast, and most of your own models are going to have just as much difficulty scheming as your opponent does.  I'm glad that they're playing around with alternate playstyles, and I hope to see him revisited in the future to try and keep his pacifistic area control playstyle while making it engaging for both sides.    But not someone I'd take in a tournament.

 

8)  Mah tucket- Is the worst master in the game.   Her chores ability is potentially very strong (giving +1ML to all models you control)   But there's only a 1/4 chance of that going off.   Even if you take Trixibelle (Who can cheat initiative) you're going to have to decide between cheating to win, or cheating for the +1ML.    They fixed this with the Emissary (Who allows you to ditch any Ram for the +1 if you so desire)   But now you're forced to bring 10 SS worth of Enforcer just to get your masters main buff to function at all.    Turning on her melee attack costs an AP, although it does have a trigger to potentially get that AP back for an attack.    She has 2 different upgrades based around her not having to waste AP on stupid shit and allowing her to attack more often.   But all of these rely on getting the right cards, and/or spending Soulstones.   And even if you get everything to off perfectly, she's only one ML8 3/4/5 damage model.    That's good, don't get me wrong.   But comparing her to Lady Justice, or Victoria, or Perdita, shows just how much pain a damage-oriented master should be able to put out.   And Mah can't match that.   That being said, she's close to being good.    Almost every aspect of her, while bad, is just a small buff away from making her whole kit jel.   I've picked her up in a campaign game recently and the change is honestly amazing.   I suspect next years errata is going to be a small buff that'll get her going right.

[Four_N_Six]

I'll take the bait, but what you're going to get here is a couple of masters ranked generally high, and everyone else all over the board as opinions differ.

 

1) Zipp - Very good at messing with the opponent, so your crew can get your points

2) Wong - He has some stuff he can do with scheme markers, and his attack is dangerous for anybody that stays even slightly grouped up.  Add in the ability to have a powerful Glowy model (or 3 if you like Swine Cursed), and your opponent will be in a bad place

3) Mah Tucket - I really like playing Mah Tucket in a similar way that I play Zipp.  The crew is hired to score me points, and then the master is thrown on top to stop my opponent from scoring.  Zipp does it by displacing the enemy from where they'd rather be, and Mah does it by murdering them with a big spoon.  I traditionally also bring another big beater (Emissary, Whiskey Golem, Mancha Roja) to roll up the board with her, causing Hell.

4) Brewmaster - One of my favorites to play, though I understand the hang-up with him.  He has a hard time getting footing competitively, but it CAN work.  Especially when your opponent has never fought him before.  Everybody says they know what he does until they're stuck in the contest, kicking themselves for getting hammered.

5) Som'er - I don't have enough games with Som'er to throw him higher up this list yet, and there are a couple of special builds I've been wanting to try, but I know I rank him higher than the lower 3.

6) Ulix - I really wanted to like Ulix, but I just don't think the pigs are in my play style.  I never seem to get any use out of the War Pig I summon in before it gets killed, and it just makes the entire thing feel like it isn't worth it.

7) Zoraida - The majority of my experience with Zoraida is Neverborn based.  She buffs the crew well, she can get you cards, but I'd rather be doing something else with a master than just getting cards or a little extra AP.  Especially in Gremlins, when so many of our models can go Reckless anyways.

8) Ophelia - I will preface this by saying that I wasn't a huge fan of hers before the errata.  So that isn't what broke her for me.  Maybe she's supposed to be used more for her tricks, but her damage isn't "master level" for me unless you can guarantee Thinkin' Luck.  So that means you either need to make sure you have the  in your hand, or Soul Stones to burn for it.  Not worth it if I'm trying to attack twice a turn.

[Dogmantra]

S Tier: Som'er

A Tier: Wong, Zipp

B Tier: Ulix, Brewmaster

C Tier: Zoraida, Mah Tucket

F Tier: Ophelia

 

tier explanation: S tier is basically outclasses other masters at stuff, even that they are supposed to be better at, no reason not to take them. F Tier is the opposite, no reason to take this master over others. Then for regular tiers it's basically the higher they are the more flexible they are, the more likely you are to want to use them, and the less specific models or scheme pools they need to succeed.

[LunarSol]

I often see what you describe as F tier as the Black List  Basically, the idea is that sometimes something might be A-tier, but so completely redundant with something else that's better that it will never see play.  You couldn't allow it in a "C-List Only" event, but there's no reason to take it compared to other options at a similar power level.  Only important because it means the model doesn't likely need much in the way of a Power buff, but instead needs lateral changes to give it a playstyle that's more different than the competition.

[Dogmantra]

Yeah, personally I prefer to rank stuff as how often I would take this rather than how straightforwardly "powerful" it might be. Ophelia is typically considered to be "better" than Mah or Zoraida, but Mah & Zoraida do things Ophelia can't, and if you want to do things Ophelia can do, Wong or Som'er do it similar but better.

[EpicWaffle]

I agree with @Dogmantra on the list, having Somer as the Big Boss with  Zipp just behind him by an inch (I just see Somer as more versatile, tho Zipp is more straight foward and easier to master), Wong definetly right behind them, than Brewie, Mah tucket. I do feel the same as Dogmantra feel about Ophelia and i add here Ulix: it might be personal taste, but i reall can't see wy i should bring ulix instead fo Somer if not for personal preference.  I do also think that Brewie, if mastered, can bring more pain that people generaly asume, tho it's quite hard and I haven't achived that yet  

[Joel]

Top: Zipp & Somer

 

Middle: all the others

 

Bottom: Brewmaster & Mah

 

although if a player is prepared to give enough time, love and attention to anything it can jump a tier - I'm just doubtful if B&M could jump two brackets.

[Sergrum]

I agree with Joel except i think Wong in the right circumstances is easily tier 1 (or at the very least above the others in that "middle" tier).

There is little reason (from a TOP end tourny perspective) not to just know the big 3 at the moment (Somer, Zipp, Wong). Ophelia as many people have said is just a poor/lesser version of the top masters. Mah, she needs helps and maybe one day she will get it, but right now, same thing as Ophelia. She doesnt do much more damage then a normal hench, shes card hungry, and the big 3 all provide something more tangible then her chores and whatnot.

 

Ulix, i think can work, its just big pigs are below par compared to their gremlin counterparts. I wish he had other abilities besides his summon that i found worthy. Typically his "obey" is very limited (2" and MI), only gives + flips. One of the worst of all the "obey" abilities on top of having limited/kinda shitty models to do it on.

 

[Je ne c'est LaCroix]

F Tier (where F=Fun or in this case F=Folomo, if you will) - Zipp, Zoraida, Somer, Wong, Ophelia, Ulix, Mah, Brewmaster

All of these are F Tier

For all the other less than F Tiers, see Forum listings under Resurrectionists, Ten Thunders, Outcasts, Guild, Arcanists and Neverborn, in that order (Neverborn I give no Fs for)

[Folomo]

Thanks for sharing your experiences with all the masters. The most interesting aspect is seeing the reason every player prefer the different masters.

To keep painting and playing with gremlins now