UK Event pricing

[OldManMyke]

XPosted this from Facebook as I appreciate not everyone does gaming on FB or even has it - lots of teachers play games and FB can be a right PITA for them.

Anyway

Event pricing. What's a fair price to be charging for a one dayer? I have been doing £10 (no food etc.) but recently I have noticed prices creeping up to £15 which may or may not include food. Now higher prices mean more schwag I guess as I'm pretty sure none of us are in this to actually make money - do all TOs declare the income to HMRC? - but how much schwag can there be. 

Yesterday I had 1,2,3 and 2 painting prizes in big glass trophies. Best in Faction acrylic trophies, 50mm counter for all along with a Gremlin Poster and the contents of a 32 player Wyrd prize kit. What more could I add? More painting prizes? Terrain giveaways? 

Would appreciate some feedback

 

 

[Starrius]

for my perspective the costing of and event should be what it needs to be. if and event was £15-20 and basically had no prize support other than maybe 1-3 I can see people being upset, or at least a bit confused to the pricing,  the events I've been to which 2 were yours I can see how much effort you go to for support of the event. raffles trophies and everything that goes into it.  that amount of support obviously comes at a cost and from my point of view that makes the extr alittle bit of money worth it.

[Joel]

I'll second the very reasonable statement made above

Having run events myself, you have to cover:

room hire (depends on location)

trophies (I like to see 1st-3rd, spoon, and best painted - I'd prefer a podium of 1st-3rd for painting too which happens at some events, also best in factions)

prize support (including shipping costs)

giveaways (markers/tokens usual, poker chips/fate decks/other at bigger events)

food (potentially)

When you set ticket prices you must make sure you cover costs and to do that you must work off a number of attendees which you may not get and do not know.  This may mean you fall short or get more than you expect.  Generally you'll know which way ahead of the event though.

I certainly have been to events where the number in through the door far eclipsed the amount spent on the above - and I think transparency would be good from TOs if that happens.

 

ta,

 

Joel

[OldManMyke]

Transparency seems good  so

UK Nationals 120 tickets sold at 40 so £4800 (other 8 were freebies, promotions etc.)

Venue and Food is £10 a day so £2560

Poker Chips £646

Fate deck £908

Trophies £450 (including oar and fedex bill for the Wyrd prize support)

Printer, printing etc - £75

Total spend £4639

Remainder was spent on travel (getting Aaron from airport etc.) 

Use my own money for my hotel room, food etc.

 

 

[Ludvig]

My most expensive one-dayer was 200kr which is about 17-18 pounds depending on exchange rate. That did include entry to a full weekend convention which pushed the price up a bit per player but hardl any of the players used that admission to the rest of the convention anyway. I do a rough estimation based on shipping and tolls for the event kit, what it will cost to rent the place etc. and then add some additional prices like trophies and stuff. If we get a lot of extra cash we spend it on something fun little extra. No one thought it was an unfair price and the event sold out in about four hours.

If you are upfront about what will be offered and what you are charging I don't really see an issue. I have never felt the need to announce all the expenses and neither have any of my attendees. If you get an overhead of a few pounds as the organizer it usually doesn't even cover the cost of gas for driving terrain there and back and it isn't anywhere close to actually paying for the time you invest arranging it. Especially in the UK where there seem to be a lot of events to choose from I would argue that players who feel it's too expensive will just not go. When I have attended events I have never given any thought to why someone is charging the equivalent of 10 or 15  pounds.

[OldManMyke]

Realised i forgot to add in the spend on name badges / lanyards.  May have made a loss then.  Don't tell Mrs Marshall will you

[leebat]

Mike and you paid for my hotel as i was the ringer 

[OldManMyke]

Shussh, Mrs Marshall will pitch a fit

[Tapdancer]

£15.00 for a day of entertainment is cheap, regardless of any potential added value in terms of a raffle win.

I go for game play / ranking points/ and to enjoy the fun community, swag isn't part of the equation.

Big two day events at the £40.00, it's nice to get poker chips or similar as a momento, but a huge bag of swag or raffle isn't necessary.

In all honesty I loathe the long raffle that drags out the day.  By 5pm after a day of tough competition I want to pack up, say my goodbyes and go home.

If we have got to the point that ticket price and numbers have raised revenue so that TOs get a return on their time great.

 

[OldManMyke]

1 minute ago, Tapdancer said:

£15.00 for a day of entertainment is cheap, regardless of any potential added value in terms of a raffle win.

I go for game play / ranking points/ and to enjoy the fun community, swag isn't part of the equation.

Big two day events at the £40.00, it's nice to get poker chips or similar as a momento, but a huge bag of swag or raffle isn't necessary.

In all honesty I loathe the long raffle that drags out the day.  By 5pm after a day of tough competition I want to pack up, say my goodbyes and go home.

If we have got to the point that ticket price and numbers have raised revenue so that TOs get a return on their time great.

 

Just need to be careful of HMRC

[mythicFOX]

Short answer;  £15 is fine for me. I'm not over fussed by prizes myself, although I personally prefer quality swag over another crew box.

 

Longer thoughts;

From day one of UK Malifaux (back in 2010) we've been blessed in the UK to have top notch and dedicated TO's running regular events.  Without the likes of David Brown (@Clousseau) there wouldn't be a UK Malifaux scene.  This is bolstered by those guys who run events at their local venue each month who are the unsung life blood of the scene (e.g. @Vorpalhit at The Outpost).

I've never seen anything that I'm uncomfortable with in terms of TO behavior in the UK.  I also don't think there's anything inherently wrong with TO's making a profit from running events (though I'm not aware of any that do), their tax affairs being their own issue.   Personally I've never run an event where I've spent less than I've received in ticket prices, and I normally run at a marginal loss.  Ultimately the venue needs to make a profit or we'll quickly run out of places to play.

While Mike's post above is useful as an illustration I wouldn't want TO's to be pressured into that level of detail routinely.  Partly because I don't want it to become a tool to beat TO's with (their job is hard enough) and also because it can be quite invasive.  In his example Mike points out he paid his own travel costs, which is admirable. I wouldn't want a TO who were less financially secure, and therefore couldn't afford to run events if their own travel weren't covered, to be put in an awkward position.  

I think ticket cost in and swag out are enough information for players to make an informed decision on attending an event or not.

[Adran]

Personal view. 

I'm happy with the £10-20 price for a day. I like prizes and stuff, but will admit that I do now have lots of the stuff from prizes already. 

 

I have no objection to people making a profit from events, if that is their aim, and if that isn't their aim, then I would imagine that if they made a profit from one event, they would probably spend a bit more on the next event. I don't want T.O.s to make a loss from events, and then stop running them, so if it costs me an extra £5 each time I play to make sure we have the wide choice of events, then its a price worth paying.

 

[OldManMyke]

Thanks for all the feedback so far, appreciate it

[Joel]

thinking of some TOs who have made massive investments in tables and tables of terrain that enable them to run and assist in the events that others run, those alsom represent significant investment above and beyond their own needs for the good of the community, and if they manage here and there to recoup such costs, then fair play.

[SurreyLee]

From someone who has hosted a couple of Tourneys now, I can agree that without David and overall generosity of the scene as a whole it would have been impossible.

We have tried to give Swag, print out's etc, tokens whilst at the same time but 1-3 boards each time so we a. are less reliant on Dave's generosity and b. we can host bigger tourneys however...I'm not a fan of wanting, in addition to the raft of work a TO does do, to having to justify the ticket cost etc. People know the events and either think they are value or not and can either vote with their feet or host a tourney themselves. I've yet to be to an event where I want the TO to explain where my money is being spent as frankly the fact there are tables there, great opponents and a (usually) warm venue is enough for me to justify paying £15. Free stuff is always welcome but even then i'd not expect it. 

Hopefully this doesn't come across as any kind of arrogance, but I feel TO's do a great job without added levels of justification.

 

 

[Barnaberible]

So the question is what is a fair price to pay for an event?

Surely the answer is a price that covers the cost of the event.

If the question is 'what is an acceptable price to pay for an event?' then we can get into the rights and wrong of making profit, covering costs of accommodation / travel (perfectly fair, why not?), covering the cost of your lunch, etc, etc.

Look at it this way. If you volunteer for an organisation as a volunteer that organisation has the right to reimburse you reasonable costs (travel, lunch, child care, etc) if it so wishes. So you are volunteering your time to help (in this case a game) why should you not be afforded the same (is you so want it) without being made to feel as though you are taking the mick and exploiting the community in some way? Or should you only be able to run events if you can cope with a bit of a loss at the end of it?

So I suppose as a TO you really need to make a decision of what your boundaries are and ultimately if you can afford to be out of pocket due to unexpected costs, if not why not try to make a surplus and put this to the next event?

I can honestly say I've never been to an event where I have thought the TO is taking the mick in any way, shape or form with the price / value. If I did end up going to one I would either think fair play, you've put your time into it and deserve a little bit of reward or, if the price way way off, wow you're taking the mick I'm never going to one of your events again (in which case their profit making event organising career would be short lived IMO)

And the answer to the original question is.....around £10 (more if food is provided)

[Clousseau]

Basically agree with all that's been said above (and on fb).

I've been running Malifaux tournaments for over 6 years and life is much easier these days for a number of reasons. In the early days numbers were low, prizes were simple and venue s were limited. I certainly took some money out to buy boards - and was open about this.

Today we have great tournament packs, access to custom made trophies at reasonable prices, better venues and higher numbers.

My approach is simple. Target £10 entry (£15 at Battlefield Hobbies as it includes lunch) and then allocate income in the following priority - Wyrd tournament pack(s), trophies for places & painting, wooden spoon, swag (generally 30mm markers), raffle prizes, faction prizes/plaques/whatever, more raffle prizes. I have taken out money for petrol on occasion and I probably gain a bit on some events and I definitely lose on others. I track income and expenditure for each event but have no intention of making that public (though I applaud @OldManMyke for doing so over the Nationals).

Bottom line is are you going to events to have an enjoyable day's Malifaux? Is it worth the entry fee? If so anything else is a bonus.

As has been said, each TO runs things differently, and long may that remain. Like the way they run events and you'll attend again, if not, have a chat with them and discuss why not (better than just not attending next time).