Lady Justice

[Corn]

Are we talking about McCabe's Metalic Sword Bearer or Lady Justice here?

I don't usually reach for a Warden when I play Justice, their attack stats just feel too low, and I always feel like I'm spending resources I don't have for tricks that don't have the impact I need.  For 1 ss more I would rather pay for a Hunter or a Guardian on the construct side of things.  Guardian and Hunter have better melee stats, in terms of range the Hunter's Chain Spear can generate its own + Flips and guarantees slow.  The push is also useful for dragging enemies into Justice's arms or away from the fray and out of position.   I would rather Inspire either of them then the Warden.

 

[Ludvig]

3 minutes ago, Corn said:

Are we talking about McCabe's Metalic Sword Bearer or Lady Justice here?

I don't usually reach for a Warden when I play Justice, their attack stats just feel too low, and I always feel like I'm spending resources I don't have for tricks that don't have the impact I need.  For 1 ss more I would rather pay for a Hunter or a Guardian on the construct side of things.  Guardian and Hunter have better melee stats, in terms of range the Hunter's Chain Spear can generate its own + Flips and guarantees slow.  The push is also useful for dragging enemies into Justice's arms or away from the fray and out of position.   I would rather Inspire either of them then the Warden.

 

Hunters get bonuses early in the turn and wardens late. Justice gives a bonus to minions after she goes so some sort of variation on: early hunter drags in enemy, Justice charges said enemy and warden gets inspired to carry on the job later in the turn against something that countercharged them doesn't seem too far fetched. Then again I never fancied Justice so I'm probably missing something major with her gameplay.

[Corn]

1 hour ago, Ludvig said:

Hunters get bonuses early in the turn and wardens late. Justice gives a bonus to minions after she goes so some sort of variation on: early hunter drags in enemy, Justice charges said enemy and warden gets inspired to carry on the job later in the turn against something that countercharged them doesn't seem too far fetched. Then again I never fancied Justice so I'm probably missing something major with her gameplay.

Well the big thing is that when it comes down to list building, I just don't have the points for a Warden, and I feel like something else slightly more expensive or slightly less expensive would do a better job.  This is especially true in a list where you are taking advantage of the Emissary for added mobility.  Emissary, Judge, Effigy, and Guardian / Franc are expensive and after paying for those you don't have a ton of points to spare for the Warden. 

 As a general combat model I would rather have the more independent Hunter for a ss more, as a Scheme Runner I would rather have an Orderly who also benefits from inspired is significantly faster for running schemes, and can occasionally heal Justice.  If you want a Witchling Stalker to dispel magic and remove conditions on Justice or others, that puts an even higher premium on your available points.  And then you might want a Field Reporter who while doesn't directly synergize with Justice is an excellent cheap activation, scheme runner, and counter schemer- and the reporter can document the triumphs of our Lady.

What it comes down to is I don't feel the Warden offers anything special to a Justice crew, its not that he is terrible, he just doesn't make the cut for other models that I feel my lists need more.  I like my Warden, don't get me wrong, and I field it often in Guardsmen Lucius and in McCabe crews.  He just needs a little something extra to compete. Whether that is Dashel giving him + flips to shoot and (0) focus or adding a second Ram to the Glowing Saber's attack making him possibly the best wielder of that artifact (or at least most cost effective because the Pale Rider can be hilarious in later turns).  Basically he just needs a little extra that isn't found in Justice's crew to be a competitive choice.

Competing with a Pathfinder or Austringer is a tough bracket.

[ArcticPangolin]

5 hours ago, Corn said:

Whether that is Dashel giving him + flips to shoot and (0) focus or adding a second Ram to the Glowing Saber's attack making him possibly the best wielder of that artifact (or at least most cost effective because the Pale Rider can be hilarious in later turns).

Poor Wastrels... always overlooked. Bravado is awesome!

[Ludvig]

8 hours ago, ArcticPangolin said:

Poor Wastrels... always overlooked. Bravado is awesome!

Got to love that card cycling! Though only in McCabe... This is waaay orf topic

[Corn]

1 hour ago, Ludvig said:

Got to love that card cycling! Though only in McCabe... This is waaay orf topic

Haha, indeed.  But one of the original questions is models we would take with Justice, and I have considered taking the Wastrel prior to wave 3.

They are a decently cheap activation and objective runner which can heal justice.  Their biggest issue is the Orderly came a long and does it better by being faster, with unimpeded, with a better damage track, can still heal, and can cycle a card if it kills another scheme runner.  Making it a great model for the Lady to inspire and keep around.

[Ludvig]

Reporters also scheming better hurt them too.

Watchers are also fun and silly with Justice. Always cool to kill stuff through walls

[ArcticPangolin]

Yeah, they have lost most of their appeal for Masters other than McCabe. Since I haven't got the starter set yet and only recently got my grubby mitts on Ripples they were still a consideration. When Ruthless comes up it's really nice but yeah, it's pretty much game over for them now in a Justice crew.

[Rostislav]

Lady J (onslaught) + Francisko  + Brutal Emissary.

On turn 1 Francisco buffs Emissary.
Emissary buries Lady J and moves forward 6'

On turn 2 buffed Emussary keeps moving forward 12'.
With def 8/WP 7 and armor he is hard to deal with.
Then he releases Lady J in the middle of enemy ranks
She doesn't have to charge (+ flip to damage) and slaughters all around her.

Austringer is good here.

He sits way back home out of LOS and allows front ranks to do interact actions.
 

[CiDevant]

I'm not going into what's obvious or otherwise covered in this thread.  Been locked into a campaign with my usual group lately so my tactics with her have gotten, experimental, to say the least.  I've got to say the most important thing I've learned is that Lady J loves her some fast models.  If your beaters can't shoot, they absolutely have to close the distance.  Hunters might be her best minion.  Grimwell with two orderlies running Disrupt Magic makes for a great opposite flank against casting dependant crews forcing the opponent to choose who they'll have to target first.  Additionally my Justice Bomb List looks a bit different than what's been talked about here.

Lady Justice
     Last Stand
Francisco Ortega
Master Queeg
     Promises
Brutal Emissary
Guardian
Guild Austringer
Death Marshal
Watcher/Brutal Effigy (depending on terrain)

[RustAndTheCity]

What upgrades do you like to take with Lady J?

[trikk]

Badge of Office and if I have Promises then Last Stand

[Corn]

10 hours ago, RustAndTheCity said:

What upgrades do you like to take with Lady J?

Badge of Office:  As has been said by trikk and others.  Lady Justice is pretty durable against small cuts due to healing.  Fear not the Sword, Juggernaut, Orderlies, Activating near the Emissary.  Guild now has access to an array of different ways to put some health back on our Lady, making her significantly more vulnerable to one big hit.  A big Red Joker damage flip or cheat has a much better chance of putting Justice down by removing a big chunk of her health.  Being able to negate your opponents coup de grace is huge and almost always worth it.

Last Stand: I really like unimpeded, it combines really well with the blind charge, and makes Justice very comfortable in terrain, where she is also more protected from ranged attacks.  I don't usually get much use out of the pushes, but its nice when you need it.  To me Unimpeded for 1 ss is worth it though.

Implacable: Implacable is a counter pick.  I'll usually pick it up if my opponent declares Guild, Gremlins, or Outcasts.  Those factions tend to have a healthy amount of sh actions, and the bullet proof +1 is nice for taking the edge off those.  The no walking out of engagement range is situationally useful vs opponents with limited pushes.  But plenty of stuff gets around it.

Thalarian Stone: If you have ever wondered why you would ever take this, you've got a good point.  I've used it before with a 7 ss cache as a discount Francisco.  It pairs decently well with the Guardian's Defensive , and can threaten with a Riposte or dodge an attack.  It is really hard on your ss cache, and not worth it in a truly competitive list.  Generally you'd be better off finding the points Francisco.  The Thalarian Stone is however Fun to use with Justice and its pretty funny when you catch someone off guard.They really need to buff the Faction Stones to just be a flat +3 to the defense and will power stats for a soulstone, and change the (0) action to beginning of activation for a discard.