RustAndTheCity Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 So, Lady Justice... Which models do you like to take with her and why? Which upgrades do you take with her? Do you take the scales of justice with her? I've got a few other guild masters but I've built up lady justice to play against newer players as she seems a bit more straight forward. Currently, I'm thinking about a list built around Francisco, the Judge, brutal effigy, and the brutal emissary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomezilla Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Played against her last week. She absolutely loved the mounted guard keeping pace with her and giving her positive defense flips against my Hank'n'spank attack vector. It was better than a pistolero defense flip aura because it was set up after positioning everything. I buried the model so I can't speak to its combat effectiveness but in just two games I'd take it over the somewhat slower guardian as Justice's bodyguard, if the table permitted another 50mm model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corn Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 My only issue with the Mounted Guard as a body guard is that the defense only lasts until the end of the turn. In general I prefer Buffs that last until the Model's next activation like Franc's El Mayor or the Guardian's Protect because they persist over until the next turn, and put a bit less pressure on winning the initiative to keep your defenses up and running. The Mounted Guard's buff has all the disadvantages of next activation buffs (killing the buffer ends the buff). The one advantage of end of turn buffs (like the lawyers) is that at least they stay up if the model gets brutally murdered. As an aside though, using the Mounted Guard would be amazing with Justice. Its capable of delivering a hard hitting enforcer to keep pace with the Lady herself- like Bishop, Grimwell, or an Executioner- and placing them right into the fray and giving the whole blob to defense until the end of turn. The trigger to chain activate to Justice or the freshly delivered beater is just icing on the cake. He is definitely a solid support piece and helps the crew stay mobile. Its too bad his delivery system is limited to non master- however I'm certain that is because of Justice. in terms of upgrades- I would be hesitant to leave home without Badge of Office, between heals from the Emissary, Guardian, Effigy, and Justice herself, you are far more vulnerable to a big chunk of damage than little cuts. Being able to negate a big red joker or severe damage flip is a huge boon to her. Last Stand for unimpeded. If you play vs a lot of outcasts, guild or gremlins Implacable gives you bullet proof which helps her defense even more. If you aren't running Francisco, Thalarian Stone is nice for raising her defense to make Ripost more likely, and pairs well with any flips you can muster. Those are the big four that I'll usually consider in most games. Last Stand isn't as important if you are using the Brutal Emissary as a delivery system, but it is still nice, Badge of Office I would always take, and I'll pick the other 2 based on my opponents faction, and board set up. I haven't been taking the Scales lately. I haven't had them actually do anything for me in a while, because if your opponent has fewer cards than you he will probably do absolutely nothing at all. Bash is terrible, tip the scales requires one of your best cards from hand or deck, and his card draw has a chance to do nothing. the WP is situational, but not worth 3ss. Brutal Emissary: I've used the Brutal Emissary with Justice and Judge and it does a lot to make her more terrifying. Placing her in base contact with a 50mm base after up to 2 6 inch walks gives her a lot of added mobility, and if you are playing vs a very aggressive crew the Emissary himself can be swinging J's great sword. The Emissary just feels like the movement trick lady justice has been waiting for, so it is a welcome addition to the crew. I wouldn't play Justice without it anymore. 9 hours ago, RustAndTheCity said: I've got a few other guild masters but I've built up lady justice to play against newer players as she seems a bit more straight forward. Currently, I'm thinking about a list built around Francisco, the Judge, brutal effigy, and the brutal emissary. That crew build is very good, and everything in it plays very well. However I know I would not run that crew against newer players. Dropping off a def 7 wp 9 Lady Justice with Fear not the Sword in base contact with the Emissary is a surprisingly fast, damaging combo, which can potentially leave a seriously bad taste in the mouth of a new player still trying to come to grasps with their own crew's synergies. In terms of running Justice to show new players the game and experience different things I would probably stick to a her core death marshal crew even if it is less competitive. Judge, Scales, a few Marshals, an Exorcist, maybe a Recruiter. It doesn't really matter what you bring, just as long as it looks pretty. I would save the Emissary dropping off a turbo charged Justice for more experienced players. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Alpha striking with Justice seems kinda excessive against someone just learning the game. You could use the emissary but skip that particular trick. I would probably skip Francisco too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 I don't mind making a list for newbies to use that uses frank, because it teaches them how hard maintaining that positioning can be. If i were making a list for beginners to use, it would include Frank, death marshalls, a hunter or two, and scheme runners of choice. That would have enough different mechanics to make it a fun learning list, while not overwhelming them with options or trickery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertmac Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Executioners, hunters, brutal effigy Frank with hermanos de armas and wade in. Austringer and Hounds. The new death marshal recruiters are good too, much better than death marshals! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringsnake Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 I've used her with a trio of Witchling Stalkers and a Witchling Handler, inspired Witchlings are impressive. Could have even gotten a summon of a Stalker in if I'd had the model for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 4 hours ago, bertmac said: The new death marshal recruiters are good too, much better than death marshals! You just can`t compare them - 7stone enforcer who will keep the Lady alive, can keep up with her and grants extra attacks, plus the ability to target buried models vs. a 6stone minion which can eliminate models for a turn - they have very different roles to play! I like the Recruiters a lot, have to practice more with them, even outside of Lady j crews (the extra attack they give out has for one time no wording that you can´t use triggers on that attack - Yay!^^) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord J Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 17 minutes ago, Tris said: You just can`t compare them - 7stone enforcer who will keep the Lady alive, can keep up with her and grants extra attacks, plus the ability to target buried models vs. a 6stone minion which can eliminate models for a turn - they have very different roles to play! I like the Recruiters a lot, have to practice more with them, even outside of Lady j crews (the extra attack they give out has for one time no wording that you can´t use triggers on that attack - Yay!^^) Yeah, i think the Recruiters are very well-rounded for a 7 ss; on top of all you said, i really love their (0) action: is both an extra mobility trick + (with the trigger) a friendly "Obey", generating a (1) Attack out of nowhere. I am really trying to include at least 1 in most of the melee scenarios i get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertmac Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 55 minutes ago, Tris said: You just can`t compare them - 7stone enforcer who will keep the Lady alive, can keep up with her and grants extra attacks, plus the ability to target buried models vs. a 6stone minion which can eliminate models for a turn - they have very different roles to play! I like the Recruiters a lot, have to practice more with them, even outside of Lady j crews (the extra attack they give out has for one time no wording that you can´t use triggers on that attack - Yay!^^) You can compare them quite easily if I have 7stones left I'm taking one rather than a dm and either a stone or debt to the guild. I do find death marshals a bit shit though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 Can`t convince you from the opposite, they`ve got stiff competition in our faction - Recruiters and Austringers being the 2 big ones I would say, but they are still the only minions which can bury an enemy model (even a master) with force, and that`s sometimes a thing. I´ve got plenty of killing power in Guild, but nobody else except the Emissary can do that (and the Emissarys timing is different for that matter) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustAndTheCity Posted February 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 Thanks for all of the replies. Lots of things to think about. 9 hours ago, Ludvig said: Alpha striking with Justice seems kinda excessive against someone just learning the game. You could use the emissary but skip that particular trick. I would probably skip Francisco too. I should have clarified a bit more. I could use Lady J against brand new players with a straight forward crew. My other thought was to use her as a master who is a bit less powerful against newer players who have been playing for a while but are still getting to grips with some of the nuances of the game. I mostly play McMourning for guild and was thinking of something a bit more straight forward to play against. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 If they've played a few games and start to get their footing you can definitely introduce alphastrikes, they will need to learn to counter those. It just seemed like a boring demo game that wouldn't get me interested to play more 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustAndTheCity Posted February 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Ludvig said: If they've played a few games and start to get their footing you can definitely introduce alphastrikes, they will need to learn to counter those. It just seemed like a boring demo game that wouldn't get me interested to play more Yeah, for first games my goal is definitely to get a crew without gotcha things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertmac Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 8 hours ago, Tris said: Can`t convince you from the opposite, they`ve got stiff competition in our faction - Recruiters and Austringers being the 2 big ones I would say, but they are still the only minions which can bury an enemy model (even a master) with force, and that`s sometimes a thing. I´ve got plenty of killing power in Guild, but nobody else except the Emissary can do that (and the Emissarys timing is different for that matter) I really like Wardens too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 1 hour ago, bertmac said: I really like Wardens too. And I don`t I think we are finally getting somewhere^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 Wardens are very hit and miss. In my last game I had a warden survive a full teddy round of gobble + smell fear + flurry mayhem. That's four attack from an 11 ss enforcer. I then activated the warden near Lucius and killed the teddy with the warden's own activation and one command from Lucius. When you get those kinds of results you can't help but respect them. Then again, next game they might die round one to some lowly minion because they don't hit their armour trigger or the enemy brought something to ignore it. They're extremely trigger reliant which can be bothersome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertmac Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 36 minutes ago, Tris said: And I don`t I think we are finally getting somewhere^^ My first Guild master was old Lucius and they were the thing I felt he needed most to succeed as he was. Last tournament I used one to paralyze a rail golem at range then do some general beating. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 Also, their paralyze hits as reliable as the DMs pine box (depends on the enemy model of course, as its wp vs. def save), is at range (but cover applies) and might not be able to paralyze master/henchman, even if it hits (because it`s after damaging). They might survive a little longer (or sometimes more than a little ), but not against armor ignore, and thats about it - every time I tried them I was underwhelmed. If the Warden was the best choice for old Lucius, I´m even more glad they changed him^^ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 39 minutes ago, Tris said: Also, their paralyze hits as reliable as the DMs pine box (depends on the enemy model of course, as its wp vs. def save), is at range (but cover applies) and might not be able to paralyze master/henchman, even if it hits (because it`s after damaging). They might survive a little longer (or sometimes more than a little ), but not against armor ignore, and thats about it - every time I tried them I was underwhelmed. If the Warden was the best choice for old Lucius, I´m even more glad they changed him^^ They work well against beater enforcers who tend to not have terrific defensive stats. Against henchmen and masters you need something better. And yes, old Lucius had it rough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertmac Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 As it is at range they can benefit from Dashels + to ranged attacks and can focus for 0 from him and as Ludvig says against beater enforcers who have already moved you can tie them down for the next turn which with lady j around can be all you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertmac Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 And yes there is a good reason Lucius got buffed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 6 hours ago, Ludvig said: They work well against beater enforcers who tend to not have terrific defensive stats. Against henchmen and masters you need something better. And yes, old Lucius had it rough. If you have a high ram, you focus and shoot. That means they`ll most likely give up 2 stones and still might get paralyzed if you hit moderate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 I know the theory but it never worked out for me. These days I go for easier targets like 12+ ss enforcers who are a lot safer targets. Yasinori, Langston etc... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, Ludvig said: I know the theory but it never worked out for me. These days I go for easier targets like 12+ ss enforcers who are a lot safer targets. Yasinori, Langston etc... Oh I agree those guys are better targets (Teddies also) but if you have them low on cache its a pretty good option to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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