izikial Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 So tannen has been a corner case modle for a while now mostly used in gimicks or as a hard counter to some suspected matchups. But with the lucius rework dose tannen have a master he can follow around as a core component? My argument being: Lucius can command tannen to get chatty meaning tannen wont lose manipulative. Cooler is another layer to the layering lucius defence (Corner case) bord lowering walk makes trappers traps more consistant Red tape will keep tannan up longer And lastly tannens week attacks are made up for by lucius letting him interact while engaged Any thoughts. Has anyone tryed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 I've played him with Lucius both pre- and post errata. Red tape happens successfully about once in a million years but cooler and chatty are great abilities and as you say you can make him put chatty up without loosing manipulative but Graves already had a way of doing that, I'd say he is right at home in tandem with Graves and always was. Most enemies will have a way of getting past manipulative either way, he usually goes down to a single focused attack (useless duplications help counteract this somewhat) but he will usually force the expenditure of a lot of resources if they're silly enough to try and deal with him from within his aura. The best protection for him is to have the enemy engaged with some other model but within his aura. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 I tried him in a hand drain list with greed austringers. Ended up getting to decked by my opponent very well (a list with good auras for plus flips). I enjoy him, And think he makes a good ffm piece. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patzer Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Tannen likes the protection he can get from Terracotta Warriors, and Lucius can let them hang out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patzer Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Tannen likes the protection he can get from Terracotta Warriors, and Lucius can let them hang out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorschlag Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Don't forget that the doppelganger can also mimic "what brings you to these parts" for an extended bubble of denial. I'm presently testing a denial crew (Lucius' ballroom) using Graves, Tannen, doppelganger, changelings and lawyers The changelings and graves show you the door (along with Lucius' what lackeys are for) to shoot Tannen and the doppelganger up the board and then drop the aura for denial- or vice versa (ideally while giving them hard to wound from a lawyer mimics blessing and manipulative to keep them protected). In the wrong pool it doesn't do amazingly so its certainly a corner case but you also have lots of "fee dumping" via lawyer and changelings to add extra protection, my present thought is that i need to take Queeg (who doesn't suit my ballroom theme - yet- will probably buy another Queeg to convert) to pull off the set up but its an amazingly gimmicky set up so is extremely poole dependent. This crew actually gave me my first ever tournament loss but I suppose that's what you get for not practicing with a new crew enough and for not practicing the gg2017 schemes before going into tournament, still I'm convinced the potential to shut down scoring is amazing and that it was my errors and not the crew that lost me that game. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Sounds amazing but even with all those layers there are a bunch of models who kill Tannen really fast. Seems like most players would find a way to shut him down without spending too much resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorschlag Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 There are always counters to any one thing, applying the right timing to any tools use is as much part of the art as understanding what tool to use for each purpose. In no way was I suggesting that the cogs in this machine could not or will not be removed as that is the risk you take with spending resources on any combination, it is however a suggestion for one possible use which I feel can be effective in the right circumstances. Ideally if it works it may cause a hideous lock down for 1-2 turns to help you pull ahead in vp, failing this it aims to soak your opponents resources dismantling it and to distract them from scoring vp, if neither of these occur it was either ill timed, poorely implemented or the wrong tool for the job. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 I think it was the "shoot Tannen up the board" that made it sound very aggressive to me. Have you used useless duplications on him btw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorschlag Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 "If" (situational) you out activate your opponent you can have Tannen and the doppel ganger on the centre line or better end of turn one, then it's just setting things up in turn two and ideally turn three by which time I expect casualties to have taken out one or more important pieces. As for useless duplications I think at the time I had it on Lucius as my aim was to keep Lucius between Mr Tannen, Mr Graves and the doppelganger so they could all benefit from it. I have another 6 months of Neverborn before I switch to guild so I will have plenty more chances to try my gimmicky lists as I've banned myself from running Zoraida or Collodi until my skill level increases with Lucius, Titania and maybe Pandora. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 8 minutes ago, Vorschlag said: I think at the time I had it on Lucius as my aim was to keep Lucius between the tannen, graves and the doppelganger so they could all benefit from it. I have another 6 months of Neverborn before I switch to guild so I will have plenty more chances to try my gimmicky lists as I've banned myself from running Zoraida or Collodi until my skill level increases with Lucius, Titania and maybe Pandora. Fun challenge! Hope you keep sharing your epiphanies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 I've been thinking of Barbaros with Tannen. Challenge and Cooler go well together. I know some feel Barbie is too expensive but I'm still working with a pretty limited model pool so I have used him a few times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 7 hours ago, Ludvig said: I've been thinking of Barbaros with Tannen. Challenge and Cooler go well together. I know some feel Barbie is too expensive but I'm still working with a pretty limited model pool so I have used him a few times. I've really liked barbaros too. Challenge would go well with cooler as well as help protect him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HegemonyKrcket Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 I absolutely love Tannen in a couple different crews. Cooler is the main reason I take him, and it's mostly for backup with simple duels - Manipulative, Terrifying, Fears Given Form, Challenge, etc. I've used him for a while now both with and without Graves and been very happy with him most of the time. What really surprises me, however, is that no one has mentioned Malifaux provides. That one upgrade has made him WAY better than he used to be. For the most part he is going to Walk on his turn and end up wherever I need Cooler to be. If he's in a good position he can either "What Brings you..." but will most likely drop a Marker (if able) or go defensive so he's even harder to deal with for the next turn. With Pandora I use him as part of a 3-4 person attack squad. While Pandora (Voices + Depression) is paralyzing models Candy, Graves, Tannen, and (sometimes) Iggy are creating a clumpy beat force. Graves moves Candy up into position and then starts dragging people into her auras while beating them with a stick. Tannen makes it harder for models to resist Fears Given Form, her Manipulative, and her eventual attacks. He also will Bored to Tears the next target for Graves to drag to Candy. Candy does her thing. If all goes well then I won't be activating either Candy or Tannen until the end of the turn. Iggy (with Malifaux Provides) is there to help pull damage off of Candy or Tannen if need be and then heal it back up by eating scheme markers. He can also Incite and Depression targets to guarantee a Candy's effects while still having an AP to Focus, go Defensive, or Drop a Marker if able. It's a lot of moving parts but it's been pretty great for me when I'm not facing Arcanists. With Titania he works pretty much the same, he's just more straight forward and has more freedom. Titania, her Knights, and Fears Given Form create a lot of Simple Duels so I try to make sure Cooler is covering as much of that as possible to greatly increase the chances they're going to fail. With Titania, however, he's far more likely to have extra markers to chew on if he needs some healing. I haven't ran him with Lucius yet, but I can definitely see him being part of a Mimic squad to much the same effect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HegemonyKrcket Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 On 2/21/2017 at 5:33 AM, Ludvig said: I've been thinking of Barbaros with Tannen. Challenge and Cooler go well together. I know some feel Barbie is too expensive but I'm still working with a pretty limited model pool so I have used him a few times. Whoever says Barbaros is too expensive is wrong. He's absolutely amazing. He serves a purpose in the Neverborn that no other models serve and he does it incredibly well. For a while he was in almost every one of my lists. Tannen does work well with him, but I not well enough to make them automatic. If you've got other Simple Duels that your throwing around and Barbaros is there to help protect squishy models then definitely try Tannen as back up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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