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hydranixx

First turn farming: Chi & Vitality

15 posts in this topic

Yan Lo likes Chi. Hayreddin likes Vitality. More importantly, they both like acquiring it in the early game, so they can get access to their upgrades and actions as quickly as possible. This got me thinking about how to gather these resources as efficiently as possible on turn 1, without neutering the rest of the crew itself. Hiring Hayreddin and Yan Lo won't always be the correct choice, hell, its unlikely even to be a "most of the time" thing either. But if it's corner deployment and the terrain suits it... Farm away!

Turn 1, Yan Lo ditches a card for Focus Chi, Spirit Barrages a Necropunk, cheats in Severe damage (Hayreddin's :+fate to damage aura negates Hard to Wound), gaining +1 Chi and giving +1 Vitality. Yan Lo then spends +2 Chi to equip Spirit Ascendant and uses Fury of the Yomi on your choice of nasty Spirits. Fury of the Yomi is truly Yan's hidden gem; a 3-model Obey that doesn't need any card flipping. This seems nuts with 1 AP Goryo charges, and Datsue Ba's Weigh Sins action when Hayreddin is standing near the enemy.

When the Necropunk activates, it heals 2 Wounds, and then goes about scheme running for the rest of the game. If Hayreddin is desperate for more Vitality, he could kill it before it activates with his :mask trigger, but I'm skeptical on whether this would ever be worth sacrificing such a useful model for. Otherwise, he goes last and either flies off to a flank on his lonesome or hunts things in tandem with Datsue Ba. 

Any thoughts?

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If you start with your necropunk, and use the ability to heal and lose htw, hayreddin makes a + flip for Yan Lo worth even more. With htk he makes two attacks on the punk for two chi. Afther that summon your choice with Toshiro from the 'punk's remains.

Fun idea to try Hayreddin/Yan Lo interaction this way. Saves cards to cheat with Yan Lo, and powers up hayreddin in the process. Keep them seperate after that, though.

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Yeah, that totally works too. I didn't think about killing the Punk for more resources since he's a good model, but I do like how you can choose scrap or corpse for Toshiro depending on your control hand and/or what model you want.

However, I feel like you should probably hire something without Hard to Wound in the first place and make the process even less card intensive, since you'll need cards to summon with in this case too. Komainu or Ashigaru are good since Yan Lo would be on Ca6/Ca7 against Df4 targets, with :+fates to his damage flips, so he's got decent odds of hitting Severe even without cheating.

He can hit twice for Severe both times leaving it on 1 Wound and gaining +2 Chi (in addition to Focus Chi for the +1 when he activates), equip whatever's clever, then Hayreddin activates, finishes off the Komainu/Ashigaru with his automatic :mask trigger for the extra Vitality and flies into position to score or deny points on Turn 2. Does this trigger work on friendlies? I don't have his card currently. If not, Yan could finish it off for a further +1 Chi.

This only works if terrain and deployment suits it, but it seems like a nice way to trade early game AP into mid game resources.

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You could take a look at the Night Terror(3SS htk). It might serve you purpose and is quite cheap. I've done actual test flips (not including Hayreddin). The idea here was getting one severe on it and then kill it so you gain 2 Chi from. The data isn't overwhelming tho.

# Gaining Chi Turn 1 Yan Love – Night Terror

✅ = 2 Chi turn 1

01. ✅ 4 cards left - 3 attacks needed
02. ✅ 3 cards left - 2 attacks needed
03. ✅ 4 cards left - 2 attacks needed
04. ✅ 3 cards left - 3 attacks needed
05. ✅ 3 cards left - 2 attacks needed
06. ✅ 5 cards left - 2 attacks needed
07. ✅ 4 cards left - 3 attacks needed
08. ✅ 4 cards left - 2 attacks needed
09. ✅ 3 cards left - 3 attacks needed
10. ✅ 4 cards left - 2 attacks needed
11. ✅ 4 cards left - 3 attacks needed
12. ✅ 3 cards left - 2 attacks needed
13. ✅ 3 cards left - 3 attacks needed
14. ✅ 3 cards left - 2 attacks needed
15. ✅ 2 cards left - 3 attacks needed
16. ✅ 2 cards left - 3 attacks needed
17. ❌ 4 cards left - 3 attacks spent (lowest card on initial hand 6)
18. ✅ 4 cards left – 2 attacks needed
19. ❌ 5 cards left – 2 attacks spent (no severe card on initial hand)
20. ✅ 2 cards left – 2 attacks needed

This of course isn't perfect in any way but gave me a good insight. You could then add "ditching 1 card for Chi" to it to end up with 3 Chi turn 1. Note: you have to ditch that card first so it will affect the choice of available cards for the following attack flips. The question is: is spending that many cards and AP on that really worth what you get. I haven't answer it for myself yet bc my experience with Yan Love is to little atm.

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2 goryo (never a bad shout with yan lo) summon 2 seshin. yan lo snaps the seshin to him when he acitvates, discards a card for +1 chi, hits them both, killing both generating 2 chi and 2 vitality.

requires the cards to summon which is a 7 off the top of my head and a way to heal back the goryo (lots of options).

do this in TT but should work for ressers just as well.

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This costs you 1 AP on two models + two moderate cards (a 6 is what you need to summon) you have to have on your hand. Additionally it forces you to activate both Goryo before Yan Lo. It actually sounds more reliable than what I did with the Night Terror. The only thing I do not like is that it forces me to activate these model in a certain order but it is what it is ;) Thanks for that!

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While it might feel like you're forced into activating these two models first, I would bet that most of the time you would want to activate them before Yan Lo anyway. Plus, you will get two additional activations out of the seishin before having to activate him. 

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I think if you want to hit one model twice for chi you really need to be ready to drop a bunch of cards on it, even if you have Hayreddin hanging around you might very well miss the attack and so on. Any cards you manage to top deck is like you had drawn a card :P.

One benefit to hitting one model twice instead of two Seishin once each is that you can charge it with Yan Lo and get some movement out of the whole exercise.

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Isn't Vitality Once per turn - so you can only farm 1 Vitality from the Seishin? Or is it read that it is once per turn, per model?

Having switched from Ressurs to TT with Yan, I have found chi farming to be less than optimal use for Yan Blows on Turn 1 (doing the Wastrel version of Chi farming). During the course of the game you will farm enough Chi to get what you need for upgrades etc...

 

 

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3 hours ago, Bengt said:

I think if you want to hit one model twice for chi you really need to be ready to drop a bunch of cards on it, even if you have Hayreddin hanging around you might very well miss the attack and so on. Any cards you manage to top deck is like you had drawn a card :P.

One benefit to hitting one model twice instead of two Seishin once each is that you can charge it with Yan Lo and get some movement out of the whole exercise.

I used to use a wasteral in TT the charge distance is not to be ignored 

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6 hours ago, Kogan Style said:

Isn't Vitality Once per turn - so you can only farm 1 Vitality from the Seishin? Or is it read that it is once per turn, per model?

No "per turn" limits on Spirit Barrage/Revitalize, as long as you can hit severe or kill something you get one.

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While it may seem like a waste to try and push for chi turn one, you have to think about how the chi weaves into the entire game. Getting an upgrade is a 0 action, so if you don't get one turn one, then you won't get all of them until turn four at the earliest. At least for me, in a tournament setting, it is often difficult to get to turn four. Plus, as OP mentioned, if you can get the two cost upgrade turn one off of one AP, then you can turn the other two AP into three AP on your other models. 

 

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7 hours ago, Kogan Style said:

Isn't Vitality Once per turn - so you can only farm 1 Vitality from the Seishin? Or is it read that it is once per turn, per model?

Yes, Hayreddin himself only gets the Vitality bonus once per turn from nearby damage - though I'm not sure this even works with Seishin since they are "Only Aether", and thus ignore auras from other models. I haven't checked this out yet.

However, there's a trigger on his melee attack (:mask) that gives him one additional point of Vitality if he kills the target. I'm just not sure if the target needs to be an enemy or if it can also be on of your own models. 

1 hour ago, Bengt said:

No "per turn" limits on Spirit Barrage/Revitalize, as long as you can hit severe or kill something you get one.

The question was for Vitality - Hayreddin's resources - not Chi. Chi gathering isn't capped - you could theoretically get +10 in one turn if lots of things die to enemies near Yan Lo - Vitality on the other hand has a once per turn cap on being automatically gathered.

7 hours ago, Kogan Style said:

Having switched from Ressurs to TT with Yan, I have found chi farming to be less than optimal use for Yan Blows on Turn 1 (doing the Wastrel version of Chi farming). During the course of the game you will farm enough Chi to get what you need for upgrades etc...

During the course of the entire, 5 turn game, you might end up with more Chi than you can spend, absolutely. However, I've found that the early game often shapes how the rest of the game plays out, so there's a massive premium on acquiring it Turn 1/2. If he's not getting enough resource to work with early on, he's going to struggle to give you the positional, supporting results that he's meant to be doing in the mid game, and at that point I would rather bring a different master who can bring more upfront damage or more upfront summoning. 

The cap on your Ca bonus from +3 Chi is misleading; getting +3 Chi isn't enough - I want to equip the 1ss and 2ss upgrades on Turns 1 and 2, without exception, but I also want to have at least +3 Chi by Turn 3, so that:
- Lightning Dance cannot be stopped.
- Instill Youth heals are bigger and/or need lower cards.
- Rebuild Corpus works with mid Tomes instead of high Tomes.

As for the late game, Bone Ascendant can be equipped on turn 4/5 without reducing the capability of my spells if there is a pressing need for it to be purchased. Alternatively, if there's no need for more damage, I often use up my reserves of Chi near the end of the game on Transcendent and give everyone +2 Armour and Spirit.

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7 hours ago, hydranixx said:

Yes, Hayreddin himself only gets the Vitality bonus once per turn from nearby damage - though I'm not sure this even works with Seishin since they are "Only Aether", and thus ignore auras from other models. I haven't checked this out yet.

However, there's a trigger on his melee attack (:mask) that gives him one additional point of Vitality if he kills the target. I'm just not sure if the target needs to be an enemy or if it can also be on of your own models. 

The question was for Vitality - Hayreddin's resources - not Chi. Chi gathering isn't capped - you could theoretically get +10 in one turn if lots of things die to enemies near Yan Lo - Vitality on the other hand has a once per turn cap on being automatically gathered.

The wording is "This model is immune to the effects of :aura generated by other models." So I would think you can get vitality of them as that aura doesn't have an "effect" on the Seishin, it just checks if they are there. Granted "effect" is a bit vague.

Oops. I was thinking too much of Chi since the Hayreddin model is so ugly. :P

---

What are the thoughts on bringing some Belles to Lure a suitable target close, poke it a bit with the Soulporter before killing it with Yan Lo? I guess the big cost here is that the Soulporter can't push Ancestors around at the same time, slowing down the crew a bit.

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True, that could well be the case. I hope it is, I bring Datsue Ba a tonne with Yan Lo, so if she can provide Seishin that give both Chi & Vitality, I'm a happy man. 

I like his hoofs haha.

As for the belles, it could work. The Soul Porter doesn't mind not pushing Ancestors if the enemy is brought close to them anyway, so it's a trade off I'd be happy making, especially since he gives surplus Chi when he connects his attacks. I think this type of tactic could  excel on a deployment like Flank or Close, whereas it wouldn't have enough reach on Corner and sometimes Standard. Farming your own models seems necessary on these.

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