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Triggers on attacks, charges, yokai


Somnicide

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Quick question - yokai have Frenzied Charge:

Frenzied Charge: This model gains + to the Attack ips of any Attacks it generates due to the Charge Action. 

they also have vital strike:

Vital Strike: After succeeding, lower this model's Flicker Condition by 1. Then, if this model is still in play, take this Action again. 

 Do attacks resulting from the trigger  during the charge action also benefit from frenzied charge? 

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Hmm okay retreading Triggers on page 12 makes me think by the rules they would. I wish I knew how it was playtested.

 

TRIGGERS

Triggers allow a model to change the results of an Action (when Attacking, being Attacked, or taking a Tactical Action). Triggers will require that a character has a suit (or multiple suits) in the final duel total.

If a Trigger is part of a specific Action it is listed below the Action’s description. These are called Action Triggers and are part of the Action itself. This is most common with Attack Actions. The Trigger will modify the effects of the Attack (like dealing more damage or pushing a target). 

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7 minutes ago, Bakunin said:

The third attack still isn't being generated by the Charge action though, it's generated by the attack action. Without an Ability or Condition that generates more than two attacks when charging, I'm pretty sure you only get the :+fate to those two attacks.

Well it was generated by the Charge action.  Charge generates an attack action, the attack action generates an additional attack.  Without the original Charge action, the additional attack action would not have been generated.  So you could say that the additional attack was generated by the Charge action from a certain logical perspective.  Charge = Attack Action 1, Attack Action 1 = Attack Action 2, therefore Charge = Attack Action 2.  Just replace = with generates.

That's my argument for having :+fate to the attack.  I'm not sure it's 100% settled though, so I've been playing it that the additional attack does not receive :+fate for the time being.

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4 hours ago, skoatz said:

Well it was generated by the Charge action.  Charge generates an attack action, the attack action generates an additional attack.  Without the original Charge action, the additional attack action would not have been generated.  So you could say that the additional attack was generated by the Charge action from a certain logical perspective.  Charge = Attack Action 1, Attack Action 1 = Attack Action 2, therefore Charge = Attack Action 2.  Just replace = with generates.

That's my argument for having :+fate to the attack.  I'm not sure it's 100% settled though, so I've been playing it that the additional attack does not receive :+fate for the time being.

Read back what you wrote:

"Charge generates an Attack Action, the Attack Action generates an additional Attack."

The burden of proof is to demonstrate that your other "certain logical perspective" is used anywhere in the rules.  And your quote concerning triggers doesn't make the Charge responsible for Attacks that are part of the Attack.  It just says that the trigger is part of the action itself.

Otherwise, you may as well be claiming that a person's grandchildren are that person's children.  

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15 hours ago, skoatz said:

Well it was generated by the Charge action.  Charge generates an attack action, the attack action generates an additional attack.  Without the original Charge action, the additional attack action would not have been generated.  So you could say that the additional attack was generated by the Charge action from a certain logical perspective.  Charge = Attack Action 1, Attack Action 1 = Attack Action 2, therefore Charge = Attack Action 2.  Just replace = with generates.

That's my argument for having :+fate to the attack.  I'm not sure it's 100% settled though, so I've been playing it that the additional attack does not receive :+fate for the time being.

Using your logic though if you triggered the extra attack off of the first attack from the charge, you then take your second attack and then what allows you to to take a third attack from the charge? 

(plus using the equal sign there is hugely misleading and logically false. the Charge action does not equal Attack action 1, because using that logic and taking it to extremes like that I would then suggest if you are saying Charge =  attack (1), then  how are you moving or taking the second attack? which is absurdly stupid)

I'd also draw you to things like focus that if done on the charge won't follow over to attacks the charge causes, and if done on the attack won't follow on to the new attack 

So Charge creates 2 (1) :melee attacks. Those two attacks are the only two attacks generated by the charge action. If those attacks happen to generate further attack actions then these actions aren't generated by the Charge action. 

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@Somnicide I see where you are coming from. The general concensus among the player base seems to be that for something to count in this game it needs to be a very direct effect. 

I was in a similar discussion about what counted as damage from auras visavi the freikorps suits where I was promptly voted down by a bunch of players. I guess the less direct you need it to be the more iffy situations you get into so it's safest to require direct cause.

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