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Hans vs Trapper


SevenThirtySeven

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Hey guys,

Been a lurker for a while, hope this isn't too obvious of a question.  I looked several pages back and didn't see a post on this.  

When you take a sniper, when/why is it either Hans or the Trapper?

From speaking to local people, it seems like the Trapper is the pick vast majority of the time due to cost effectiveness.  Is this how it should be?  If Trapper is default, in what situations do you take Hans and with what upgrades?

Thanks!

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Pluses for Hans:

  1. Longer range (18" vs Trapper's 14")
  2. Personal upgrade that gives him a 0 action cast to gain focus (requires a 7 to go off I believe)
  3. Ability to remove enemy upgrades! This can be super clutch for many situations

Pluses for Trapper:

  1. From the Shadows
  2. Lesser soul stone cost
  3. built in + from his rifle.

Typically I do default to the trapper because of From The Shadows and the lesser cost.

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There can be only one answer for this question- it depends of the board - if you can place Hans on top of some sniper nest in your deployment zone, he'll do better in most cases. If you can't, Trapper is better choice.

Remember two things - first, Hans can ignore guard the stash markers and draw los through them, so he is better choice in this strategy, trapper however can be deployed in very crucial location and drop scheme markers starting from turn two, which can give you few points during game.

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17 minutes ago, DXXXVIII said:

Hes a Counter-Piece i LOVE to pick.

This!
For me trapper is model that can do many things: kill others, place scheme markers (nice combo when you place him in nasty place that is hard to reach), count as model for quarter etc. He is universal (more or less)

Hans is counter and killer, nothing more. Expect gremlins with pigapult or slop haulers- take Hans. Expect Neverborn with swarm of low wounds models - take Hans. You want to kill enemy totem first turn- take Hans.
 

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25 minutes ago, DXXXVIII said:

Hans can take scout the field to place one alpha-strike shot round one across the board to remove one core piece of the enemy crew round one. 
Hes a Counter-Piece i LOVE to pick.
Enemy has pigapult? NOPE, not anymore. :D
 

For this very reason I've found him to be a one-trick pony.

Sure, with Scout the Field you can focus and shoot someone out of LoS Turn 1. You might even take I Pay Better on a henchman to give him Focus +2 to overcome the hard cover problems.

You can even discard a card for Reference the Field Guide to get that suit that ignores armor. Then you have to cheat the Attack flip and the damage flip.

And then you realize that it's a single Sh6 shot for 10ss, four cards and two upgrade slots; moreover, he's likely doing nothing for the rest of the game because he won't be inflicting terrible wounds with his Sh 6, he won't go anywhere with his Wk 3, and if the board is set up properly, he won't have another value target for the rest of the match. If you take his (0) upgrade, he turns into a mediocre version of Sue, but with card drain instead of card draw and zero utility. To top it off, he has no close combat attack, so good luck being engaged.

 

Maybe with Iron Levi+Watcher to give LoS and cover reduction, maybe with Mad Dog and his Blown Apart marker, maybe with Jack Daw to not randomize into combat with Guilty, maybe agains Carrion Emissary...

Still, I believe there are better options than Hans even for what he does.

 

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You dont need that much of the cards turn one and well, if you pay 10 soulstones to destroy the enemy-team-synergy turn one, its worth it.
Destroy a pigapult and not only the pigapult but also the stuffed piglets become removed from game.
Remove Apprentice wesley turn one and the brewmaster becomes much less scary.
Ofc, he's a one -trick pony but its a working one trick pony, just as a scheme runner only has one purpose and killjoy is a one trick pony, but its still used as long as the one trick works.
But it comes down to a matter of taste.

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Eh trapper for me.  Hans increase cost and arguably worse/same accuracy isn't worth the trade.  A trapper can shut down most synergy chains as well or at least force your opponent to play around him.  Trapper can also do everything else listed above that Hans can't.  Maybe if they were the same cost?

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16 minutes ago, DXXXVIII said:

You dont need that much of the cards turn one and well, if you pay 10 soulstones to destroy the enemy-team-synergy turn one, its worth it.
Destroy a pigapult and not only the pigapult but also the stuffed piglets become removed from game.
Remove Apprentice wesley turn one and the brewmaster becomes much less scary.
Ofc, he's a one -trick pony but its a working one trick pony, just as a scheme runner only has one purpose and killjoy is a one trick pony, but its still used as long as the one trick works.
But it comes down to a matter of taste.

You do have a point.

There are quite a few cornerstone totems in the game (what comes to mind are Printing Press, Brass Arachnid, Malifaux Child, Stolen, Enslaved Nephilim, Doc Mitchell... not many more though), but losing them is only really a minor inconvenience. Maybe go waif hunting in a Levi mirror?

You still get that alpha strike at a very large premium (for 9SS in Outcasts you get cool stuff like Mad Dog, Montresor, Sue+Return Fire, and if you factor in I Pay Better, you get the most crowded slot in the faction).

I'm still not sold on Hans (tho I love the model), but it is indeed a matter of personal preference, as with all models, really.

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1 hour ago, Seadhna said:

For this very reason I've found him to be a one-trick pony.

Sure, with Scout the Field you can focus and shoot someone out of LoS Turn 1. You might even take I Pay Better on a henchman to give him Focus +2 to overcome the hard cover problems.

You can even discard a card for Reference the Field Guide to get that suit that ignores armor. Then you have to cheat the Attack flip and the damage flip.

And then you realize that it's a single Sh6 shot for 10ss, four cards and two upgrade slots; moreover, he's likely doing nothing for the rest of the game because he won't be inflicting terrible wounds with his Sh 6, he won't go anywhere with his Wk 3, and if the board is set up properly, he won't have another value target for the rest of the match. If you take his (0) upgrade, he turns into a mediocre version of Sue, but with card drain instead of card draw and zero utility. To top it off, he has no close combat attack, so good luck being engaged.

 

Maybe with Iron Levi+Watcher to give LoS and cover reduction, maybe with Mad Dog and his Blown Apart marker, maybe with Jack Daw to not randomize into combat with Guilty, maybe agains Carrion Emissary...

Still, I believe there are better options than Hans even for what he does.

 

It doesn't change what you're saying, but Hans already doesn't randomise on his card... But still, I find he's way too card hungry for what he does. I SOMETIMES take him, but the situation has to be just right. And that situation is guard the stash, and a 5 wound model I want to merk on turn one. I find if he can consistently get a bead on the engagement around a stash marker, and kill something like printing press or a slop hauler turn one he can be alright. Not great... But alright.

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If you search for 'Hans' there are a few threads discussing their comparisons, although this thread has provided some new and useful considerations.

 

Hans is just a bit more expensive - and card intensive (reference the field guide for the trigger you want, or shooting off upgrades needs 2AP and no damage.  Plus any cards for cheating because you probably want to ensure that attack succeeds.  But you probably don't want to hit a leader with that as they can discard 2 cards to make it fail)

Hans has a higher shot, but the Trapper has a + to attackers, so effectively the trapper has a higher Sh.  Hans is great against armor or incorporeal, trapper moves around a lot better and can drop scheme markers (if he survives).

 

They both have their advantages.  I'd say that it depends on the board and your opponent really as whether Hans is worth the premium.

 

 

 

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I usually find myself reaching for a trapper when I want a sniper.  The one exception is when I am running Jack Daw and I want a sniper.  Hans benefits more from Jack due to the way he can benefit from the 0 action obey and how he can help with some of Jack's bad matchups.

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I kind of bounce between them.  I like the trapper as a whole but I like with Hans's new upgrade you can get two boosted shots if you have I Pay Better for some low card and possible a 7.  Also the ability to shoot into combat and not randomize has helped me remove some problems that have developed. Such as once when Sebastian was in combat with someone that will die due to poison if they activate or Candy once in combat with an Incited model for next turn.

Generally though the Trapper calls just for the cost difference as if something goes wrong being out 6ss as opposed to 8ss is an easier pill to swallow.

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  • 2 months later...

I've play both and have generally found trapper the more viable of the two.  Trapper Steve (as I've affectionately taken to calling him) Has greater overall utility with the built in +, From the Shadows, and Crit Strike, along with his Re position Trigger.  Most things the Hans could kill in one shot, Trapper can as well.  That being said, Hans' various triggers are handy at times, and the Scout the Field combo turn one is a really nice way to tilt your opponent early.  Something that I don't think was mentioned yet, is that Hans does not randomize, so I find I like him in Interference, where I can throw my heavy beater Freikorps models into my opponents, soften them up, and then have Hans finish them off, granting me the Interference zone.

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Here is my thoughts for free, and it is worth what you paid for it.  ?. I always go trapper in stake a claim...I take 2 and put them in the corner just over the line...Turn 2 I have 2 markers.  As mentioned, Hans on guard the stash.  I also like Hans against Gremlins.  They always have something to wipe of the board turn 1 (slop haulers, apprentice, old cranky, ? apult...).  Also, usually against Guild as the good masters have good totems.  Rest of the time trapper.

Thanks,

Steven

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14 minutes ago, keget said:

Here is my thoughts for free, and it is worth what you paid for it.  ?. I always go trapper in claim jump...I take 2 and put them in the corner just over the line...Turn 2 I have 2 markers.  As mentioned, Hans on guard the stash.  I also like Hans against Gremlins.  They always have something to wipe of the board turn 1 (slop haulers, apprentice, old cranky, ? apult...).  Also, usually against Guild as the good masters have good totems.  Rest of the time trapper.

Thanks,

Steven

You mean the strategy stake a claim? Claim jump is the always scheme in gg-17.

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  • 2 weeks later...

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