Jump to content

Guild Lucius and his Guardsmen


psychogeek123

Recommended Posts

Hey everyone! I have a query. I am looking to go with Lucius as my first guild master and love the idea of the "guardsmen" thematic. What models Are the top pics for him and their functions? Any really good combos? I am probably going to bring a single terracotta with him after reading about their interactions. Is the gun line still a thing?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have never made any gunline work in this game. 99% of the time the schemes and strategy force you to move into the center of the board where you get engaged and can't gunline.  Any opponent of some skill will also be likely to have a way of charging into your deployment zone turn one so the gunline might spend the whole game engaged. A few shooty elements can work well though and Lucius' issue command can push you out of unfavourable engagements.

The guardsman theme lacks the heavy hitters and damage soakers that I find useful. They are also completely incapable of ignoring armour and incorporeal which can become really bothersome against some lists. The newly released witchling thralls are big meaty brawler models and were more or less desinged to give Lucius a boost so I would have a look at them. Top guardsman models are austringers, they are among the best models in the guild and make it into most people's lists regardless of master. I also really like guild pathfinders. They have a good shooting attack and can summon traps which mess up your opponents plans. Getting those two is definetly a solid plan for guardsmen and the thrall to have something big and scary. I also like guild hounds since they are cheap and good at scheming, it is nice to be able to delay important interactions by having lots of cheap models. They also have some interesting interactions with Lucius's ability to put out scheme markers. Riflemen hit hard but I have trouble getting the best use out of them since they tend to die really quick. If you position them more competently than me and the boards don't have a lot of cover I think you will find them very enjoyable. They are however super dupe fragile.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gunlines are static, easily countered in this game, and frankly boring to play. I think the only good use for Riflemen is with Dashel guarding a deployment zone corner and giving out Accusation when they get engaged, because they will. They're play-style (shoot things) is only great when it's done by a mobile model like Perdita, which they are no where close to being. Great models, fun fluff, blah rules.

Wardens and Mounted Guards help give a boost to the Guardsmen station but it can still be a trap to focus on it. Lucius loves Thralls and Wardens and they work really well together.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

I had some success with 2 Riflemen last night in a emissary diestro list.   They did significant damage to the emissary and mei fang before getting wiped out.  But in general they rarely make the table for me. 

Haha, amazing! How big of a target did that emmissary have on it after you attached Diestro? :) I could see wardens paralyzing people on negatives as viable too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

I still want to know if a reporter embedded in a riflemen nest will provide the counter-push necessary to remove a threat which may charge into them, but have none of those models, so.

They definitely could. Two Exclusive Interview actions can push an enemy model 10" away (assuming enemy model is B2B with something close). It's only Ca5 but unless your opponent realizes what's happening they probably wont mind too much. That is 14-28 stones (assuming at least two Riflemen and maybe Dashel as well) clustered up and not moving, which is a lot. Field Reporters work best mid-field causing a ruckus, I've found. The Guardsmen could get there, but then they're not shooting either.

I will still try the gunline idea and see what's what eventually, as this is mostly conjecture but the basic premise is sound, if a bit hit or miss.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Ludvig said:

Haha, amazing! How big of a target did that emmissary have on it after you attached Diestro? :) I could see wardens paralyzing people on negatives as viable 

 

It was a big enough target that my opponent rail walked to it and charged rather than run roughshod through the Riflemen our putting up steam clouds to ruin my day. 

I think the wardens are unnecessary.   Things die on neg def. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm doing "red-coats" as one of my five? I think it's presently five, thematic Lucius lists.
The wardens ruin it slightly as I'm doing them as blued steel to mimic certain sets of plate armour.

Here's a quick run down:

Guild Guard: at 4 stones your standard guardsmen competes with your guild hounds as an objective runner, if you are taking Dashel anyway and run two of these they could potentially become an effective scheme running unit with the addition of an irregular (pistolero) but that is 13 stones sunk into cheap activation's.
This would create a tight bubble due to the 3" restriction and the irregular may struggle to keep up once you start getting use out of investigate.
Of course with Lucius handing out the ability to interact while engaged investigate to teleport to a scheme marker and remove it seems like a good thing for a 4stone minion ...if you can keep them alive.  

Guild Hounds: at 3 stones hounds "can be" exceptional scheme runners or do a surprising amount of damage, especially coupled with the scheme marker antics available to Lucius crew and Dashel and possibly queeg giving you some focus abilities.
If Lucius is close enough and you've set up your 1pt charge and free focus hounds can start to be a much larger problem for your opponent than they would expect for 3 stone models.

Austringer: still an amazing model after being cuddleed even if it is only for deliver orders and the distract trigger, a shame they can't gain focus as a 0 from dashel but they can still pick off weak scheme runners, hit engaged models and empty your opponents hand.

Guild Sergeant: at 6 stones the sergeant competes with the Austringer, the Pathfinder and the Warden, in comparison their damage output, combat prowess and survivability "could" be brough into question but as with anything in Malifaux your crew is a tool box and while each tool has it's aown purpose ideally you want tools that can suit a number of in game purposes.
With Sergeants they bring a few tricks to the field, one is drop kicking markets to where you want them to score or to set off dog charges.
Another is that they give you half the benefit of Lawyers by giving your guardsmen + wp duels and they also increase your guardsmen's wk making a very mobile unit.
So they have a few tricks up their sleeves, aparently running two creates a lope hole due to r.a.w but that's another matter.

Wardens:  one of your better melee guild guard and are flexible with melee and ranged abilities, they offer paralyze (card dependent) also a very nice defense trigger (card dependent) they benefit from both Lucius and Dashels auras etc due to their flexibility and also enjoy Lucius making them take actions against models which have already activated.
They also offer pushes which are important for moving models away from scheme markers etc.

Guild Riflemen: one trick ponies, they have the potential to do some excellent damage when something "NEEDS" to die but to set them up will mean sp[ending first turn manouvering possibly using Lucius and Queeg to speed them up and then also having Dashel to boost their effectiveness.
Of course with the right protective measures and supportive models this can become a mobile death ball with wardens but it may also be shut down if luck doesn't twist for you.

Path finders: An interesting bag of tricks, summoning (card dependent) and re positioning traps with Queegs assistance makes pathfinders a serious irritation for your opponent.
They also offer from the shadows if your deploying second or just want to line up your explosions, and can also replace riflemen in your ball of death gaining just as much benefit from Queeg and Dashel and offering somehting more than straight damage, and with the right set up can almost be okay in melee.

Mounted Guardsmen: your melee missile launcher, use to propel your hounds and wardens into a target or group of targets, these guys also offer a defensive bonus that can help your df 6 guild guard along with the rest of any bubble they belong to and also offer a push when you want to pull models (ranged or otherwise) out of a combat.
I'm yet to use one but they give you a very nice range of tricks and look forward to seeing what I can pull with them.
 
Mr Queeg: great with path finders and guild sergeants even better when combined with dashel on models that like focus ... all of the above.
Also offers a nice push out of or into combat and brings his own flexibility in dealing damage.

Captain Dashel: much like Queeg great with all of the above especially when the two are combined because you can hand out your zero pt focus with queeg (terror test) then activate and benefit from either Lucius' melee bubble or Dashel's shooting bubble with Lucius taking a walk or issuing commands.
Then activate the model focus again as a zero and make another focused attack and a normal attack....or do the two steps in reverse, it doesn't really matter just find the right (or semi right) tool for the job.
He can also now summon (yay) benefits from sergeants aura, has semi reasonable damage output ranged and melee so some flexibility, can now benefit from Lucius' abilities and make occasionally enjoy being targeted by "what lackeys are for" to support the right models at the right to for a more spread out crew.
he's also a good place to put accomplice if you want your entire crew to accomplice to half your activation then drop curfew to give everything they haven't activated slow, then wash, rinse repeat with a terracotta warrior.
 

Presently working on completing my redcoats so I can run as many of these combinations as possible, I've painted up models as irregulars who didn't feel military enough, Mr Queeg, An Austringer, a Lawyer and of course the path finders but there are other models which could work nicely in this crew who don't share the guardsmen typing such as a lawyer for htw, orderly (field medic) for healing Guardian (bodyguard or delivery of) and then there are all of the wonderful mimics that will work beutifully but will need... modification to suit your theme. 

I suppose that's the catch with gimmicky/fluffy theme's (how I like to play) you either expand the theme or the get slotted for specific  scheme and strategy pools which they do well with.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Riflemen are pretty solid with Captain Dashel, but don't get too wrapped up in the idea of using them as a gunline.  The big thing is that they can move, (0) focus, shoot when near Dash, which lets them draw better lines of sight, and snipe out targets of opportunity.   Lucius' built in push on issue command is also great for bailing them out of melee.  Don't over invest in gunline for all the reasons as stated above, but having a couple heavy weight ranged hitters isn't a terrible idea, just make sure you have melee punch as well, and watch out for their glass jaw.

As mentioned before, Guild Hounds are pretty solid.  They can give you some good activation control and speed. As noted above, they have good synergy in a Lucius crew and for 3 SS, they are surprisingly vicious melee models when you combine a scheme marker for a (1) Charge, Lucius' +ml aura, and Dash's (0) Focus.  

I've built guardsmen themed lists that have 10-11 models in them, with Dash potentially summoning more.  With those kinds of numbers you can give Gremlins a run for their money in activation control, although taking a hit or dealing with incorporeal or heavy armor won't be your strong suits.  Its a fun and thematic build, and you'll definitely have some good match ups.  

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The idea is to not completely invest your list into making it shooty - here's a Guardsmen-Heavy list I'm planning on using at a tournament this weekend:

Lucius w/ Legalese and Secret Assets

Dashel w/ Arrest Him

2 Guild Riflemen

Mounted Guard

Guild Hound

Executioner w/Ready to Work

Scribe

Austringer

 

I know I'm weird, but I like to put a list together that can achieve most objectives and strategies in the game, and this one really works.  The focal point of the list is not Lucius, but rather Dashel.  I'm using soul stones to try and keep him alive, because he's helping me to make the Riflemen into something truly dangerous.  Typically, I'm shooting people the most on turns 2-3, and after that I'm either engaging most of their army with my beaters and don't want to shoot into melee, or they're hiding models as not to get blown off the board.  Deliver Orders from the Austringer keeps my models close together but usually out of melee, and so do Lucius's pushes.  I'd never really want to buy Guild Guard, but they're nice to summon to try and tie up models in Melee that might shoot me back.  The Mounted Guard delivers some nice placement and pushes to that I move my dudes out of melee (again), and can let the Executioner tag along when he charges.  Basically, no one wants to fight the executioner, especially when I can let him take up to 6 melee actions in a single turn, without burning scheme markers (which could make it seven!).

 

But yeah, it can totally work, you just have to make sure you take Dashel, and Lucius is a good master to help give you guys some extra activations too.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wardens also work decently with both Dashel and Lucius. It's just a lot of investement and a fairly static crew to buff a couple of semi-decent stat 5 attacks. Paralyzing stuff is great if you have the rams, although compared to how easily nurses paralyze things the wardens aren't all that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Vilicate said:

  Basically, no one wants to fight the executioner, especially when I can let him take up to 6 melee actions in a single turn, without burning scheme markers (which could make it seven!).

 

I'm Counting 4 without scheme markers to eat.  2 for the ready to work charge, 1 more, and then 1 for lucius's commanding presence.  What am I missing?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As an aside, if you DO want to run an effective gunline I'd recommend doing so with the Viks.

Something like 

Viks

malifaux child

Lazarus

Rusy Alice

Librarian

2 trappers

 

All these models are fine to move or start at the centre of the table and work there but are also formidable shooters.  If anything decides to come in, well you have two whirlwind death machines ready to clear it up :)

 

Sorry, it's a little off-topic :)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can probably get more mileage out of a Witching Thrall with Lucius, although you lose out on the Cavalry Charge.

2 Attacks from the Thrall's activation

1 Attack from a scheme marker placed nearby

1 Attack from Inspiring Presence (Auto Pass! So will pass on a black joker)

1 Attack from Issue Command

Total of 5 attacks, all of which can potentially benefit from a +ml flip from Lucius' aura.  I have a feeling that the Thrall is going to become a staple melee beater in Lucius and McCabe Crews.  (McCabe souping it up with Reactivate, Nimble, and Promises).  And the (0) yank the chain is pretty solid for getting into position for a charge.  Just make sure you have a card in hand to pass with that *isn't* a crow.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So gunline is not necessarily what I am aiming for (hehe punny) but more just the guardsman theme. I will likely run two riflemen, Dashal, Executioner (just love the model), and I don't know what I want from there. Likely going to try the wardens and guild hounds to see how I like them. I really just wanna get a feel for how the thematic models play as well. Seems they like a loose bubble tactic, keeping close-ish to each other

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, psychogeek said:

So gunline is not necessarily what I am aiming for (hehe punny) but more just the guardsman theme. I will likely run two riflemen, Dashal, Executioner (just love the model), and I don't know what I want from there. Likely going to try the wardens and guild hounds to see how I like them. I really just wanna get a feel for how the thematic models play as well. Seems they like a loose bubble tactic, keeping close-ish to each other

A fair analysis. The bubbling can hurt you bigtime though. Really doesn't suit all strategies or enemy crews.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Isn't that part if the appeal of Malifaux? That all-comers lists aren't the optimum choice? Stuff like Guard the Stash should work well for Guardsmen lists, the auras are big enough to cover both Stashes and Lucius can shift guys around to ensure VP.

Master Queeg should fit well with the models you listed. Getting to take (0) actions out-of-activation is nifty, especially when Dashel makes (1) Focus a (0). He also adds even more pushes to the Crew.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information