New to Malifaux, Old wargamer

[C'thulhu]

Hello, I am looking to get into the game. I have played Warhammer 40K and Hordes. I am interested in how the deck mechanic will affect gameplay. My biggest concern is balance in the game. The reason I left Games Workshop an Privateer press was because I felt the games went from being about the game and the story to being about profit. Wyrd seems to still be about making a good game. I am wondering if you guys feel that way.

[retnab]

That's definitely part of why I've stopped playing GW and PP's systems.  Between the alternating activations, the card mechanics (which are way better in my opinion between the guarantee that you're not going to roll snake eyes every other roll and the ability to cheat higher when it really matters), and the fact that you can play games in non-aggressive ways, with scheme heavy crews like what Colette can do.  Overall it just feels much better than a lot of what else is out there.

[TreeNinja]

Welcome to Malifaux, were bad things happen. To address your first concern about the card mechanics I think you will find as with all of us the card mechanics are well balanced and with its resource management it provides wonderful layers to the game. I much prefer it to dice mechanics, and I think there are many here who would say the same. There is a bit of a learning curve initially but that passes quickly.

Now for the quality of the game. I think your impression is spot on. They came out with a second edition when it was needed to rebalance the system.addimg some mechanics to provide a more seamless transition to those changes going forward. They come out with a regular erreta and FAQ, to address changes to models and so on. Along with that you have an annual release of Gaining Grounds which is the tournament rules to to be followed with changes to the new strategies and schemes which keeps the game from becoming stale and often helps to address the one and only winning combination as it were. All in all not everything has been a landsliding success but they address things regularly which to me is all I could ask. I continue to have fun with each game I play. At the end of the day that is all you have to measure if the game is worth it or not.

[H4ml3t]

I started the game in June 2016. Also a veteran war gamer. I'm consistently impressed with how D@&! well balanced the game is. Not perfect of course but very well done. 

Regarding card mechanics and luck:

I played in a tournament this past weekend. It' true that the 1 game I lost I could have tied with better luck on a single card flip. It's also true that I could have scored another 2 points (and won) if I'd played smarter and not made a dumb mistake.

This game has the least reliance on luck of any minis game I've ever played. There's so many resources to manage and the points are gained by so much more than killing. Welcome to the Arcanists!

Jump in with both feet.

[C'thulhu]

@retnab

good to hear from someone else who has played the same games. It's reassuring to hear from you guys.. on the same note note I am looking at the arcanists. I really like Rasputina's feel and story. What is her answer to people who punish Casters (i.e. Sonnia)

[-Loki-]

I came to Malifaux (and Infinity) from 40k. I became disinterested in 40k after the endless cycle of cuddling old units and releasing brand new, very powerful units to drive sales. Not to mention playing an army that has been at the bottom of the pile since 4th edition, where I basically didn't need to bother unpacking my army, as I just spend the rest of the game packing it back away in the order my opponent chose. The developers themselves seem to have lost all passion for the game and are just going through the motions with each release.

I've been playing Malifaux since just before the release of Crossroads, the second M2E book. So far, I've not seen any of what I saw playing 40k. Units from book 1 are still strong and common to see as well as units from other books. Something else I see often is whenever someone comes up and says 'X unit is crap and needs to be buffed' you see lots of people come in to talk about how they make the unit work. The balance isn't perfect, but unlike 40k where the company doesn't even try and the community defends it by saying 'well true balance just isn't possible so get over it', Wyrd actually cares and does try.

It's really refreshing being able to buy something and not be worried that it's just never going to hit the table, and playing a game where the creators do actually love their creation.

[retnab]

I played 40k through 3rd and 5th (SM and 'nids), and I played Warmahordes for about 3 years (Retribution and Cyriss), but after having played Malifaux I've just had no interest in getting back into those games.  Malifaux is definitely more complex overall, but it feels more balanced and well crafted than either of those games IMO (Mk3 included).

Rasputina does really suffer when you're up against anti-casters, but spell slinging isn't your only option.  You can use her to put out Ice Pillars and give your models bonus Armor if hitting the opponent doesn't look very possible (but don't forget you can spend an AP to Focus if the anti-casting is giving you 's).  Also you can take models like the Ice Golem, Blessed of December, and Snow Storm to bring some thematic melee beaters, and the December Acolyte is one of the most points effective shooters in the faction.

[mythicFOX]

Glad you're looking to take a step through the breach.  Welcome!  

To your points about the card mechanic and balance;  

The card mechanic works as a way of smoothing variance, because you can use cards from your hand to replace bad flips it means to a certain extent you're much less at the mercy of fate the way you are with some games.

No minis war game will ever be perfectly balanced, but Malifaux does a very good job with it.  The main key for me is that Wyrd are active and committed to improving balance. There are regular cycles of FAQ and errata to keep things on track.  I find player skill matters way more than a power list in games. 

As to Raspy, I'm not aware there's really any master she's especially frightened of, and she certainly frightens several of them herself.  One of my team mates came 6th of 128 players at the recent UK nationals, playing 'Tina as his only master.  So I wouldn't fear for her from a power level perspective.

[C'thulhu]

Thanks again for all the replies. I look forward to being part of this community

[Mxbedlam]

Welcome to the game first of all! Secondly, Wyrd's style of game play is highly addicting. The differences between mass scale games and skirmish style games takes some getting used to. The card mechanic took less time to adjust to than the alternating activations did. Addressing the card mechanics: They give you a level of control over your attacks that dice don't seem to offer (whether real or perceived). Your control hand allows you to learn to weigh options on when to do certain things and how aggressive you can be throughout the turn. That being said, the new player has a tendency to spend those high cards quick and lose stamina as the turn goes on. 

Regarding activations, that is what was tricky for me. Each model has 2 Action Points and you have to make sure each action is significant. Unlike lots of other games, the positive early turn can take a quick downward drop when the scheme markers you were counting on get eaten up, or the model you left exposed gets murdered. Activation control is a key deal in this game, as you will find out pretty quickly. 

As far as Raspy goes, she's a fantastic way to learn the game. Hard board control mixed with major damage from blasting and a long reach. If you have a target that has counterspell, hit the model next to it that doesn't. Force them to spread out enough that you can get them out of their aura zones and you still get to kill 1-2 models a turn. Use Ice Pillars to block off the board and acolytes to hand slow out to people you don't care about killing yet

[Mxbedlam]

Sorry about the double post

[iamfanboy]

18 hours ago, C'thulhu said:

Hello, I am looking to get into the game. I have played Warhammer 40K and Hordes. I am interested in how the deck mechanic will affect gameplay. My biggest concern is balance in the game. The reason I left Games Workshop an Privateer press was because I felt the games went from being about the game and the story to being about profit. Wyrd seems to still be about making a good game. I am wondering if you guys feel that way.

So, balance.

I've been playing an unfortunate amount of Warmahordes lately, and even 3e isn't very good balance wise - IMHO there's just too much of a gap between the top warnouns and the weakest warnouns, with very few top warnouns and lots of weak warnouns.

Malifaux does NOT have that problem.

Yes, Rasputina is stronger than, say, Mei Feng or Ironsides, but the main reasons Raspy's stronger is because she's very straightforward to use and the other two have a learning curve. It's a shallow gap in power, not a massive rift. Also, because the game is VP-based where you can pick from several alternate means of earning VPs in Schemes, a good player can pick Schemes that favor their chosen Masters. 

Compare (from WM/H) Haley2 versus Sturgis1, where Haley2 is just straight BETTER than Sturgis1 AND has a much shallower learning curve AND the game mechanics itself favor her playstyle! The gap between them is immense, and I don't think that anything short of (say) giving Haley2 15 WJPs and Stirgis 35 would bridge it.

I actually made a thread on the WM forums about my problems with the balance and gameplay of WM/H and got banned for my troubles - I was being civil, not denigrating the other players for enjoying something different than I, and still... poof. I'd like to think that if I did some badmouthing of Malifaux on these forums I wouldn't get banned after a day or two.

[hydranixx]

I mirror everything that's been posted above.

A lot of people come to Malifaux from backgrounds similar to @-Loki-, myself included, where we got sick of losing games purely because our opponent bought the newest release and we did not. There's only so many times you can scoop up half your army to GW's latest $300 robot in the first shooting phase of the game, before walking away from the game.

With balance being your biggest concern, just like it was for me, I'm happy that you found Malifaux. There's very good external balance between factions, and reasonably good internal balance within most factions, particularly in Arcanists. Every Arcanist model has a purpose, even the ones that aren't good when you hire them; Cojo, Steam Arachnid Swarms, most Gamin, since these can be summoned anyway.

Even with just Rasputina's thematic models, you have enough to pieces to play competitively. When in doubt, add Malifaux Raptors

[H4ml3t]

Malifaux Raptors and Soulstone Miners. I get So Much Work out of Soulstone Miners.

[C'thulhu]

It seems I tapped into a lot of players who have seen what I have. I used to play Necrons in 40K in those strange days when they had a 3rd Edition book in a 4th Edition game. I got out when Necrons were still hot with their 5th edition book because to be competitive I had to buy a bunch of new models whose boxes were pushing $60 a pop.

Then I switched to Circle Orboros in Warmahordes and had fun but quickly realized that if I even wanted to have a fun, not-one-sided casual game, only certain Warlocks would cut it. 

So here I am at Malifaux. My other concern is how common it is to find game stores that sell/players go to? I'm in the Army and I move around a lot. 

[-Loki-]

3 hours ago, C'thulhu said:

Then I switched to Circle Orboros in Warmahordes and had fun but quickly realized that if I even wanted to have a fun, not-one-sided casual game, only certain Warlocks would cut it.

You will see people talk about teirs and where masters sit on those teirs. Don't be worried - this isn't teirs as in 'this master that is teir 1 will kick that teir 3 master in the pants' like you see in Warmahordes or 40k. Players rank the masters based on how many of the available scemes and strategies their playstyle is affective in, how crew dependant they are and how easy they are to play. To use a Neverborn example, as that's my faction:

Lilith and Jakob Lynch are often considered teir 1. This is because their abilites are more generalised. They support their crew and the master can go about doing its thing while the crew does its own thing. Lilith, for example, sticks enemies in place, moves friendly and enemy models around and creates cover. These are things that work irrespective of crew and scheme or strategy, they're just in general good abilities, so she's easier (for Neverborn) to grasp, works in pretty much any combination of schemes and strategies, and you don't have to build a crew around her.

Pandora has two limited upgrades and is generally harder to play. One, Voices, lets her paralyse enemy models easily, and at decent range. The other, The Box Opens, gives her Terrifying and a new attack. Pandora with The Box Opens is more specialised - she somewhat relies on a certain crew makeup that wants you and your opponent to get into a brawl, so she's often put in teir 2 or 3 (depending on the skill of the player) because it's a more limtied option, you need to somewhat build the crew around her and she's rather tricky to play (and play against). But in that situation, she's very powerful if played properly.

Pandora with Voices works irrespective of crew. She's great at handing out Paralyze to key enemy models, limiting what they can actually do in their own turn. This lets the rest of your crew get to work, so you can build it without considering supporting her. Pandora with Voices is generally considered teir 1 or 2 (depending on the skill of the player) because she works in a wider set of schemes and strategies, irrespective of crew and is a bit easier to play.

So if you happen to run across people comparing the 'power levels' or teirs of masters, take it with a grain of salt. Sometimes you'll see people rank a master low simply because they're not familiar with their playstyle. There has been one outlier to this unfortunately, which was Lucius. He just wan't very good. He recently got an extensive Errata and I've heard people talking about him favourably, but I don't play him so I can't really comment if he got fixed.

The benefit of all this is you pick your crew after you know the strategy and scheme pool. So once you have two or three masters for a faction, you can tailor what you use to the objectives you have. I personally like Brawler Pandora with The Box Opens and haven't had the urge to really give Voices Pandora a go, but I always have Lilith with me as well. So if I get a set of schemes and strategy Brawler Pandora just isn't good at I can grab Lilith.

[retnab]

Yeah that's probably the biggest change from 40k and Warmahordes and I LOVE it!  Being able to know your opponent's faction, all the details about what the focus of the match is, and THEN each making your list means you don't get stuck in list chicken or that awful feeling that your set lists are a bad matchup nearly to the same degree.