Schemes & Stones Zipp Challenge

[Khyodee]

So each month I'm encouraging people to play a few different masters (Ironsides, Misaki, and Zipp this month) and post their feedback on them. This can be anything from general musing, to battle reports, to good models that synergize with the master. I'll also be posting different questions for people to answer to start the conversation.

Week 1 Question:

So you a prepping for a tournament and have limited pool of models that you can bring with you. You first decide that your only going to bring one master which is Zipp. What is you plan to play for the following round? What factors may change your list and how?

Standard Deployment
Turf War
Claim Jump, Dig Their Graves, Accusation, Recover Evidence, Tail 'Em

 

Week 2 Question:

What the filthiest model/ability combinations you have found playing Zipp?

 

Week 3 Question:
What strategies do you love doing with Zipp? What schemes? Which ones do you hate doing with him? Why?

 

[I'm a Teapot!]

50 SS Gremlins Crew Zipp + 4 Pool - The Gift of Gab (1) - Rambling Diatribe (1) - Dirty Cheater (1) Student of Conflict (5) Fingers (10) - Stilts (1) Mancha Roja (10) Trixibelle (8) - Dirty Cheater (1) Iron Skeeter (6) - Hovering Airship (0) Stuffed Piglet (2) Stuffed Piglet (2) Stuffed Piglet (2) 

 

stuffed piglets activate 

Give Zipp fast (student)

fly trixie to the middle, give her fast,  lure Zipp twice, manch with rebound once and use the 4th ap to push back an enemy plus Slow if possible. Zipp flings in their priority model, mancha finishes it. 

 

Call recover the evidence immediately and send fingers to their backfield. This leaves them with very poor choices sind a single model won't keep fingers from scoring evidence and your already dominating the extraction area.

 

fill in the second scheme as you like. 

 

Fingers is a beast in recover the evidence with a position based strat. 

[Izzinatah]

This is a good Scheme Pool and Strategy for Zipp. He can easily deal with Tail 'Em and Accused thanks to his LoS blocking and positioning abilities, and can bring Earl Burns along if he needs Scheme Markers for Dig Their Graves or Interact Actions for Accused.

I'd take The First Mate with Where The Captain Can't See and Treasure Map (the latter for free) for sure. His Croak can reposition enemy models, useful for Turf War, Recover Evidence and removing Accused. If he gets Accused or spotted for Tail 'Em he can Leap out of engagement. Finally, if the enemy is going for Dig Their Graves or Claim Jump he can eat their Scheme Markers, cycle cards for misc effects and gain loads of armour.

Maybe Fingers/Trixie too, but both are expensive picks and it's hard to fit them in with The First Mate. I like to get the most out of Zipp's Limited Upgrades, so I'd probably take two Iron Skeeters with the free upgrades.

[DanteJH]

I've played a couple games with Zipp already this month with the following list:
Zipp (6ss cache)
+the gift of gab
+rambling diatribe
Earl Burns
The First Mate
+where the captain can't see
+treasure map
Iron Skeeter
+hovering airship 
Burt Jebson
+dirty cheater
Mechanised Porkchop 
X4 Bayou Gremlins

I've played both games against one of my friends who only plays perdita. I've found that it's hard for him to charge because you loose the place he does after damage. A way around this is to stone or cheat the masks. Stoning for it is fine because if the enemy is using scheme markers the first mate can make them back. Both times we used the schemes and strats you asked us to and I've taken claim jump and recover evidence both times. I send the gremlins up the flanks to score claim jump and to hopefully get people to divert forces (which they do) and I pop recover evidence turn 3 when everyone's in the think of it. I always use Zipp late in the turn to misplace models out of the 6" turf bubble and/or away from evidence markets then use the smoke as my last action to slow people down

[Chris P Bacon]

I'm off to my first tournament in april, it's single faction but I'm just planning on Zipp as my only master. I'll be taking lots of tips from this thread! 

[DanteJH]

Good luck with that victorybod, the best tip I can give you is to learn how to also play him defensively and using him and the iron skeeters exhaust to a great effect

[Joel]

Zipp (airship, gab, diatribe), 7ss

earl

first mate (captain can't see, phe)

Gracie (saddle)

burt (dirty cheater)

gremlin taxidermist (dirty cheater)

2 stuffed piglets

zipp and first mate can clear the turf war with impunity. First mate can target pigs to drop scheme markers with phe upgrade too. Claim jump easy here, dig graves another good pick. 

Would review crew based on terrain, opposing faction and opponent

[EpicWaffle]

Zipp (airship,gab,rambling) 6ss

Fingers 

Burt Jebsen (dirty cheater)

Gremlin Taxidermist (dirty cheater) 

2x lighting bug 

3x stuffed

It would depend on what faction I'm facing but I would pick either Claim jump and Recover evidence, or Tail'em and recover evidence.

Having fingers allow me to almost surely get 3 points of recover evidence, counter Tail'em (being him and zipp the only suitable targets, making it hard with their 6" bubble)  and recover evidence, bring some heal (lightingbug can do that too) and in general a tank piece that can pin up a couple of enemy models. Stuffed are there to annoy the enemy back line while Zipp, Burt and the Taxidermist are the one in middle of the turf. The lighting bug are a jack of all' traits, since they can accomplish most of the schemes, and are fast enough to get in the thick of battle if a sticky situation happen. 

Ps: it's not that tanky as list but there's a lot of stuff your opponent has to handle so you can play around that.

[Dogmantra]

WITH the caveat that this scheme pool screams Ulix to me, here's the crew I made:

Zipp + 4ss
+ Gift of the Gab
+ Rambling Diatribe
+ Do Over

Old Cranky

The First Mate
+ Treasure Map

Raphael LaCroix
+ Dirty Cheater

Burt Jebsen
+ Dirty Cheater

Iron Skeeter
+ Hovering Airship

Lightning Bug

Slop Hauler

Stuffed Piglet

 

Scheme choice: Accusation > Claim Jump > Tail 'Em > Recover Evidence. I wouldn't pick Claim Jump if they have too much that can contest my First Mate doing it on his own. Tail 'Em only if they have sufficient Masters/Honch Min.

TFM is basically an autopick for most crews for me right now because at best he scores 3 uncontested claim jump points on his own, at worst he pushes enemies out of Turf War/into Accusation range. Treasure Map on him literally just because he could have a free upgrade. I'm not expecting that much use from it, although it will be nice if my opponent takes Dig Their Graves & I don't go for Claim Jump. If I take Recover Evidence, that's now his job.

Iron Skeeter's job is to drag Burt up the field and give him Fast. Then focus on Accusation or taking shots with the airship.

Burt + Raphael kill stuff. I really like Raphael, he's been super good the past few times I've used him. I would have taken Francois but I didn't want to add another easy Tail 'Em target.

Old Cranky hides and helps my stuff not die. Sloppy does similar, but will shoot if it's safe to do so.

Bug focuses on Accusation with a sideline in killing and giving out Slow if possible. If I've taken Tail 'em that's the bug's main job.

Zipp just does whatever really. Stuffie is there for stalling!

 

 

What I would actually run would be something like Ulix with Husbandry, Dirty Cheater and Do Over/Liquid Bravery. Penelope. Old Major with Corn Husks. Merris. Mech Porkchop. Slop Hauler. Other stuff to taste, possibly the Emissary (generic conflux), possibly The Sow, a Bayou Gremlin, maybe a Lightning Bug. Pigs win at Accusation and Tail Em, with Merris being able to run claim jump as a backup, otherwise she just sits there dropping scheme markers for War Pigs and stopping blast damage. Ulix hangs back and summons off the porkchop, then Piglets charge in at lots of s.

The aim of this crew is to basically assume we'll tie Turf War and work denial on the schemes. Corn Husks makes Dig Their Graves very hard. Ulix and Old Major are the only Tail 'Em targets and they have a wall of defense, hopefully preventing them from being reached (and if they are, I have lots of 50mm bases to block LoS with). Merris can reposition to deny Claim Jump if needed. Piglets are hard to kill but a Don't Mind Me model would be my main counter for Recover Evidence (although I would drop most of the markers in my support ball at the back). Accusation is my main one I'd be worried about, but OTOH I wouldn't be averse to killing a piglet just to get rid of that condition, so there's that. Plus they're not bad at disengaging with Df6.

[Khyodee]

Week 2 question up

[EpicWaffle]

Week 2 answer:

I would say that we are a filthy faction by definition, so it's kinda hard to answer  

Probably the nastiest is a skeeter saddling any ht 1 of our enforcers/ henchman (especially Burt, taxidermists and Francois), giving them 12 extra inches of move the and generally fast too (with reckless is 4Ap total), like we needed extra mobility in our faction  With this combo I killed an Hans turn 1 with Francois in standard deployments. 

Other mean combination is Zipp+Fingers in a scheme-placement oriented scenario (maybe with extraction/guard the stash too). These two models make so that 2 areas of 6" in the map are offlimits for scheming/interacting, making your opponent plan harder than it should be. The 1mate can also be there, just to be sure that even if something is placed, it won't stay much around.

[Joel]

Nothing nastily filthy, but several useful ones.

The Earl "porkchop-yo-yo" is nifty: porkchop charges in, earl drags it back and heals it up with his (0) and attacks.

In a similar vein, having sparks make Zipp a construct so that earl can heal him 4wds is quite dispiriting for opponents.

a combo of sparks and am iron skeeter making each other fast can be a great and inexpensive tag team for many scheme pools.

[Je ne c'est LaCroix]

Umm Joel don't forget this beauty of yours:

Hmm - sparks uses "packed with explosives" on a stuffed piglet near Zipp and accomplice into Zipp.  Zipp uses "up we go" on the stuffed piglet dropping it near 2 enemy models and cheating down the pig's defence to get a severe damage through.

pig takes 5, enemy models take 4 each - then pig explodes for maybe 4 more ?

I tried this, worked to perfection and was all the more sweeter when my opponents delight at my piggy explosion flip being a black joker turned to dismayed despair as I revealed that this was, only in this particular moment, actually a good thing (for me) . Toshiro, Yin and a dumb Crooligan all left with bacon faces 

[Dogmantra]

Sadly that doesn't work. Bacon Bomb sacrifices the model instead of killing it, and stuffed with explosives only happens when the model is killed.

I misunderstood which action was being used, ignooore me

[Je ne c'est LaCroix]

I think it's good?

Zipp kills the stuffed pig up we go

Packed with explosives (from Sparks) gives it a blast marker

It goes pop when it's killed (by Zipp) and Bacon Bombs?

[Dogmantra]

OHHH sorry I misunderstood. I thought you were using the Sky Pirate upgrade Poorly Handled Explosives, which is specifically on kills (hence specifically using Zipp). You're actually using Sparks to add blast markers. Yeah that works, I got ya. (i'm tired lol)

[Je ne c'est LaCroix]

Ah good, Toshiro and Yin can stay dead then

[wizuriel]

15 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:

Sadly that doesn't work. Bacon Bomb sacrifices the model instead of killing it, and stuffed with explosives only happens when the model is killed.

Actually wouldn't it work. Stuffed with explosive add  to zipp moderate or severe damage and if that kills the pig it explodes (which severe will do). 

[Khyodee]

Week 3 question up

[Eorek]

Schemes I've found myself picking alot on Zipp are: Neutralise the leader. Undercover Entourage, Inspections and set up.
The strategy I basically always pick zipp for is guard the stash... he can simply lift your opponets model away from one stash marker and deny points if you activate him late. 

I've found while playing the right setup in his crew(trixie and franc) you can usually pull off a neutralise the leader early in turn 2, or kill off the leader in turn one if your opponent wasn't careful. 

A good example was when I played Seamus the other day,
- first I used stuffed piglets to outactivate my opponent.
Seamus took a shot at trixie which she redirected at a hard to kill burt.(this left seamus behind hardcover close to the centerline. 
- Zipp moved forward, used his (0) to pull forward Franc, shot Seamus with the push trigger on his gun pulling him within zipps aura that makes him have to discard cards to use soul stone, activate franc who charged seamus with reckless and made him throw his hat off. 
- Next turn Trixie cheats the initiative. Activate Trixie and charge seamus and try and cheat as many Rams into the duel as possible getting more strikes off franc, Then chain activate into franc and finish him off. 
(also worth mentioning is that round one trixie can push back and hand out slows to threats making the opponents crew unable to retaliate properly when you go all in vs the master the next turn)


Undercover entourage... just play it safe with zipp and make sure your final attack can bring him out of harms way or that you have a high mask and a place to flee to with your placement df trigger. 

Set up: Have Trixie put up a pile of scheme markers, wait until the enemy model activates, use zipps up we go and score 3 points, easy. 

on a Tournament game I did the mistake of dropping zipp vs hoffman on extraction.
Inspection was also in the pool; so I figured I couldn't out-blobb the hoffman armour blobb that was sure to dominate the middle of the board. I sent earl with zipp to one edge and sent trixie to the other. Zipp was grand at dealing with hoffman outrunner models(The scythe chick from the new guild box) and I had a pigapult kill the watcher headed for the other edge.
So when facing a list that prefer staying in one big pile dominating the center of the board like hoffman and you know you can't beat him upfront, schemes that you can do while not going for the center becomes quite easy to do such as Inspection and claim jump aslong as you can deal with models not relying on staying close to hoffman.


And I love when Tail em is in the scheme pool. usually your opponent will think it will be easy to pull off, but it's real easy to remove it with Zipp compared to other masters and you can just keep denying your opponent points making him waste actions and cards trying to spot zipp. 

Strategies I don't like with zipp would be... hmm I dunno, it's more what masters I suspect I might face to be honest. For interference I might pick som'er or ulix over zipp, but that being said: zipp isn't terrible at running that strat either. 

Schemes that I don't go for with zipp. Last stand sucks, I usually make my Zipp crew super killy making last stand not that viable. 
and for some reason I don't often go for Tail em... I simply lack the minion count to make it a sure pick


All in all if I bring Zipp or any of his skypirates I like being aggressive right of the bat. Either with Rami and/or a pigapult killing the opponents models before they get to react in turn one (... a quick murder is a fun one...). and then turn 2 make sure I get to start with trix and use a zipp/burt/trix chain activate with franc to kill off even more stuff where ever I can without my opponent being able to retaliate much. 
This is a double edged sword though as I still keep doing to mistake going in too hard for the kills rather than actually getting points ^^ happened more than once that I've forgotten to remove an accuse in favour of taking the final wound off an enemy master and so on. 

that's my 5 cents and a wall of text. New to the Forums aswell, So: Hello there. 

[Joel]

Week 3: 

strats i love: turf war, guard the stash, interference, stake a claim, squatters rights, collect bounty, reconnoiter, headhunter

 

those I don't: extraction, reckoning

 

schemes I enjoy: claim jump, leave your mark, eliminate leadership, frame for murder, covert breakthrough, undercover entourage, show of force, recover evidence, set up, tail em, inspection, quick murder, mark for death, hunting party

those I don't: last stand, search the ruins, hidden trap, dig their graves, accusation 

[Math Mathonwy]

7 hours ago, Joel said:

those I don't: extraction, reckoning

With the clouds and the Place effect of his Melee attack, Zipp seems like he would be pretty good for Extraction - why don't you like him in there?

[Joel]

The crew want to be mobile, keeping 2-3 models near the marker just means they tend to melt.  They are not numerous like Somer or particularly tough to kill

its not that Zipp can't do it, it's just that I enjoy those games less as I have to bend the crew and the way I want to play them to fit it.

[EpicWaffle]

On 2/2/2017 at 5:25 PM, Khyodee said:

 

Week 3 Question:
What strategies do you love doing with Zipp? What schemes? Which ones do you hate doing with him? Why?

 

So: 

1) I actually love to do all strategies with a crew runned by Zipp, even tho I feel safer in Interference with Somer (and in exctraction depending who I'm facing). He's really well rounded, and he's capable of influencing positively his crew in all 5 strategies.

2) I love to do Undercover entourage, set up and public demonstration. Even Frame for murder, but I simply like the scheme  He's really good at eliminate the leader, dig their graves etc. I don't really like Scheme dropping with him for obvious reasons, but that is solved by a well rounded crew. Only schemes I don't quite like  are Accusation and Last stand.

3) I kinda already answered this but I'm really the answer is: none. Haven't found yet a scenario in which I was cornered to choose a scheme for another because I felt like I couldn't achieve it.

Aside from reckoning, screw that, is boring  

[Four_N_Six]

I really do enjoy Zipp in all the strategies.  And I'm sorry to say that I completely disagree about Extraction, that's one of my favorites to use him in.

If you can guarantee the mask in your Ml attack (Earl), then Zipp can displace 3 enemies a turn.  Since it's a 5" placement, it's essentially a guarantee to put them out of range of the marker unless they were practically hugging it.  Even if you don't have the cards to ensure 3 successful attacks, in order for your opponent to play it safe and not risk the odds, they'll need 5 models around the extraction marker just to ensure getting 1 point.  Anything less than that and they risk you stopping them from scoring.  On top of that, if they want to guarantee even a chance to move the marker in their favor, they'll need even more.  I don't see anyone throwing that many models around the center just to guarantee one point, and after that you can stop them from scoring it at all once the marker moves closer to your deployment zone (or whatever location serves you best).

You can have Zipp clean house and use his final walk action to move back to the marker so he's one of your models scoring the point and favoring it to move for you that turn.  Essentially getting 4 points with only a couple of models.  Especially if you use First Mate, who can also push opponents 6" and denying them even more.