Good match up for VonSchill (Intro game)

[OctaBit]

Trying to get my buddy into Malifaux, and hes starting with VonSchill. I'd like to pair him up against someone who's not super complicated, but gives him a bit of an advantage. Who do you guys think would be a good match for him? Currently I have:

Arcanist:

Raspy

Marcus

Kaeris

Ramos

Sandeep

Outcasts:

Viks

Hamelin

Daw

Ten Thunders:

Shenlong

[Ludvig]

Both Rasputina and Kaeris work around things that freikorps are good at countering (blasts and conditions) so if you want to show off the strength of their special rules I guess one of those would be decent. I don't think either is overly complicated, you can take it easy on theupgrades to not overwhelm him.

[Seadhna]

I second Raspy and Kaeris, just make sure he takes the steam trunk along

[dancater]

Raspy is a good choice, she is pretty simple, her crew is characterful and the Freikorps are solid against one of her primary attacks.  However she is still competitive and will present an interesting game.

Crew selection will be important, I'd throw in the Ice Golem and some Gamin, they are not optimal selection in many lists but ooze character, are fun to play and the Golem is a suitably awe inspiring beater.  Also put in an Ice Dancer and you can show off some speed/scheme running-prevention.  Finally I'd include a Dec Acolyte as a counter to the Trapper, this will mean you can keep every facet of the game engaged and neither you or your opponent will outright dominate.

Kaeris is a nice master but she is all about maneuver and is tricky to maximize, playing her poorly will be a walk over and playing her well will confuse and frustrate your opponent, she is tricky to play 'average'.

Marcus is not bad, play him durable Marcus and not killy Marcus and he'd be fun, take a reasonable beast pack selection and that would be a simple and fun confrontation of beast vs man.

Sandeep and Ramos are no-no's I'd say, summoner mechanic alone is overwhelming.

Shenlong, Viks, Daw and Hamelin.... yeah no on all, they are cascade and momentum masters all, they have truly vinous table clearing mechanics which can be prevented by knowledgeable good players but will table the inexperienced in a single turn (mainly Vik's but Daw is savage as well) or create a confluence of events and (in Hamelin's case) summons which are unstoppable at a certain threshold.

So I'd go Rasputina as clearly first choice, then Marcus and then Kaeris.  I'd leave the other in the box till your mate has found his feet with the basic rules.

[OctaBit]

Thanks for the input guys. Ya I figured the summoners would most likely be a bad place to start, and shenlong and the Vik's would be either too much going on or to much murder.

 

As for raspy I can see the how showing him how powerful the blast are and why the friekops ability is strong. My only concern for raspy is how she tends to blow something off the board every turn. I feel like this might be discouraging. Also should I pick less optimal targets? Like blasting a generic guy as opposed to a strongarm suit. 

 

He's a very proficient warmachine player and he understands the basic gist of the rules. I mostly want to get across the finer points of the game. Like learning to use focus, or utilizing cover, or the importance of schemes over random killing. I can see some points where raspy would shine, but I'm still unsure. I could use her killing ability as a pseudo clock but idk. What do you guys think?

[dancater]

If he plays Warma-Hordes then he understands the concept of killing and threat ranges, explain before the game starts that Raspy plays like a slow moving snowball bazooka and it would be best to avoid her threat range (and give him the different ranges) unless he has several tricks in place (cover, cards, voodoo dark magic, whatever) to keep him upright or he is willing to sacrifice the model. He's a war gamer and Warma-Hordes player, he'll understand that.

Then explain how cover, focus and defensive work, use a few quick examples with Raspy vs model 'x' practice situation flips immediately before the game to demonstrate the mechanics, they will see it in 5 min demo and then likely during the game.

Then make sure you have a good strat-scheme pool which includes scheme marker placement, use open schemes and only have 1 strat and the same 2 schemes each (explain what is normal for future games but that this is intro 101).  Then rock and roll, with Von Schill having some speed and range vs slower Raspy crew but a slippery as all hell Ice Dancer and infiltrating Dec Acolyte you should quickly see the value of terrain, targeted killing and scheme marker placement.

As a bonus Von Schill's lads are largely blast immune so if he screws up he'll lose a model and not half the crew.  Von Schill himself is pretty damn durable and even the Strongarm Suit and Lazarus can probably survive a solid Raspy hit with a little cheating then a Librarian could heal them.  Not to mention that this could be used to demonstrate that burning AP on Raspy to smash a big model while a scheme running Freikorpsman goes scheme marker placement happy could swing the game.

In short with a little thought it should work fine, in the end no combo of models is going to be ideally balanced and allow every facet of the Malifaux game to be demonstrated easily but I think Raspy vs Von Schill provides an excellent way of covering most of it in a clear and concise way.  It also nicely demonstrates important things like Ca vs Sh actions, maybe shooting into melee, disengaging, move vs push, terrain and model height.

I honestly think with the resources you have that this is the way to go.  Alternatively I'd roll Marcus and demonstrate that way but then you'll still have problems in a different way.  Hell even Von Schill vs Von Schill introduces match up issues I can think of.

[Freman]

I would have said Ironsides who, in my opinion, is the Von Schill of Outcasts, but you don't have her.

[OctaBit]

Thanks for the advice guys. What do you think would be a good pair of schemes to use? Im planning on using GG17 since thats what the rest of us use. I think it'll just make the transition into actual games easier. For strategy I think either headhunter or guard the stash would be good. Headhunter still shows off killing but you have to do it carefully unlike in other wargames. It also shows off interacting and denying interacting. GTS because it's fairly similar to certain warmachine scenarios. 

[hydranixx]

Guard the Stash, especially for Rasputina. Headhunter can already be a little difficult for her, but when the player is brand new it's really not a good first-game experience.

If you're doing two schemes, try make one of them Frame for Murder/Set up/Entourage etc where you have to specify one model and let your opponent figure out which one. That would immediately show him a part of Malifaux that's very unique - the mind games within mind games type of schemes.

The second scheme should probably be one that promotes interacting between models, like Accusation, Mark for Death etc.

1 strat and 2 schemes might be too much though*. My intro game was literally just Turf War with Assassinate as the sole scheme, and while that sounds rather dull, it's still immersive enough for someone brand new to the game to enjoy without being overwhelming.

* I think a lot of would-be Malifaux players stop playing shortly after playing their first game or so because there's just so many decisions involved, and some people feel inundated with options and choices to make.

 

20 hours ago, Freman said:

I would have said Ironsides who, in my opinion, is the Von Schill of Outcasts, but you don't have her.

Ironsides is the Von Schill of Arcanists, I presume you mean? The Von Schill of Outcasts is Von Schill himself  

[Freman]

My bad. I was thinking Arcanists and wrote Outcasts. I guess I have Outcasts on the brain. 

[OctaBit]

On 1/27/2017 at 6:18 PM, hydranixx said:

Guard the Stash, especially for Rasputina. Headhunter can already be a little difficult for her, but when the player is brand new it's really not a good first-game experience.

The new player is playing VonSchill, and I don't mind playing at a disadvantage. I can see you're point about too many decisions, but I think its important about to show off some of the key features of the game. I do like the frame for murder suggestion.

[Khoregard]

von schill vs. ironsides would get both players what they want, which is to say a master scrum in the middle of the board at the end of turn 2

[OctaBit]

Unfortunately I don't own Ironsides. I'm tempted to buy her after her errata, but I'm a little light on hobby money after captain con.

[Nukemouse]

I think Jack Daw would be the best choice. Von Schill and his crew can avoid horror duels and /damage which will come up a lot with JD so he can get an idea for how those resistances are useful abilities. Whilst JD himself will be complicated the rest of his crew doesn't really have to be. Try running a lot of plain dudes like the guilty, crooked men and maybe drowned along with Monty and Ligaea. Playing an outcast also has the advantage of demonstrating to him models like Montresor he may be interested in, certainly schill ripping his shirt off whilst montys horror duel damage aura is up is a good combo.

[Ajatros]

I don't think you have to show off every aspect of the game if it is his first. Experienced players often forget how much data there is to take in when you start Malifaux, and information overload can make for a frustrating game. I suggest simple beater crews with some scheme runners, and I think Marcus with his beasts are great because they are very thematic and not too complicated. Something like 35SS is an ideal starting point. As for strategy/schemes, guard the stash and extraction are great because they keep the game compact, and objective holding is something gamers recognize as a familiar concept. Then add to that some thematic and unique schemes, such as frame for murder, recover evidence or tail 'em. Quick murder is a simple and fun scheme as well. 

[Xynok]

On 08/02/2017 at 1:45 AM, Nukemouse said:

 schill ripping his shirt off whilst montys horror duel damage aura is up is a good combo.

This is dirty. And I like it.

On topic: I would avoid Jack in a demo myself, he uses some funny mechanics and he works on limiting the opponent's choice and can be frustrating (which you don't want).

Marcus (depending on build) or Raspy would be my choices. Ramos isn't too bad but summoning can unbalance low SS games. Viks might be good if you want to show off more Outcast stuff