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Yamaziko or Bettari


Somnicide

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Hey there venerable leaders of the Ten Thunders - I have a quick question. I have played Ohaguro Bettari a fair bit, just got Yamaziko ready for the table. My local club is starting up a campaign in February based on the book 3 campaign. We each start with a Henchman and I am trying to decide between the two. I shudder when i look at Yamaziko's Def 4, but having played Bettari she loses a fair amount without lots of Oni and summons.

Anyway, I am looking to be convinced one way or the other, please share your thoughts here. Also, please don't recommend any other Henchmen to me, I am running one of these two for sure because I want to start the league fully painted, and don't want to have to buy, assemble, and paint another model.

Thanks!

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Do you think your local meta will have annoying defense triggers? I'm thinking mostly Gremlins here with their damnable Squeal, but Rezzers and Arcanists also have their share of defense triggers that unfairly hinder our ability to kill them :P

I guess I should also ask if you want to build towards a particular Master, or have a certain crew theme in mind.

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Yamaziko is going to have a lot of trouble against Peons with that :-fate and you won't face any Masters for a while in a campaign so the :+fate is less valuable. Are you expecting to face any Arcanist players that use Malifaux Raptors? A single Malifaux Raptor could make Yamaziko really difficult to use. I don't have much experience with Ohaguro Bettari but she looks quite good for a campaign.

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Ama No Zako still not painted? :P

I like Yamaziko but feel that she loses some appeal if she can't threaten masters with that :+fate she has. She still has her other perks so she wouldn't be useless, but I can't say she'd be my first or second pick for a campaign. Consider Smoke Grenades mandatory if you do pick her, they help a bit with survivability.

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I've taken Yamaziko as a non-leader to great success. She's a solid scheme runner, especially in the early weeks where she can avoid enemy engagements with so few models on board. Smoke Grenades are a very good thing to give her too.

The best thing about her, however, has been putting the Critical Strike skill on her. Her Yari has a built in ram, turning her damage track into 4/4/5 with potential for more from soulstones and cards.

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You really have to take a look at what crew you are going to be building into as well. If you're goal is to build into McCabe, you are going to take quite a different list then if you take Asami. At least potentially.

Asami combo's well with Bettari (really any master, including McCabe). But Yamaziko doesn't grant much in synergy to Asami. Asami has an anti-charge upgrade I feel is better than Yamaziko's brace, and while Ziko is great against masters, she's a liability against ranged threats without smoke grenades. Sometimes even with (due to focusing). Her card drain is pretty good early game, and the nimble makes her an alright scheme runner... but if you are going with Asami, Bettari is just hands down the better choice for the BUILD.

McCabe likes Yamaziko for her nimble already, making her a great carrier for a strange metal shirt or the elixir of life. Her more consistent damage with some survivability and a bit of tech makes her a welcome addition to McCabe's options. But likewise, throwing badge of speed on Bettari is devastating for the setup. But she can easily get out of range of his pick up, so you have to be careful. Giving her armor is fantastic as well and she doesn't want to hold the sword generally, but can get use out of it (especially against armor, a notorious weakness of 10T).  Where as it was really clear cut with Asami, you could really go either way with McCabe, and get good use out of them. Again, it depends on how you want to build out McCabe.

All in all, Ziko still probably edges out bettari for the leader role until you unlock your Master just do to a slight increase in survivability. Brace, strong vs lures and places, and solid min damage with a 3" reach make her formidable. Even with the poor Df. Bettari is a walking target. She can hide out of sight and still charge, but once in the thick, she has no defensive tricks other than her higher def and soulstones. Using her upgrade matters more in a campaign, because you can probably get a tad more use out if, with no masters in the mix. And it puts a big target on her head that says if you don't kill me and I have the cards... you're in a world of pain.

Not trying to sway one way or the other, more presenting some points to consider. I truly do feel you need to have an idea of what other models you want to take to determine who best synergizes with what you are trying to do.

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5 hours ago, Somnicide said:

The synergy that intrigues me with Yamaziko and Asami is the discard and the Asami's swallow attack. 

My problem is that it's potentially non-existent turn 2. A bit too gambly for me. Even pitching 2 cards is still good, but it's one of those abilities that (because its 2AP) is either downright devatasting, or absolutely worthless. Effectively range 10" only, and if they have a mobile master who's backlining or even not aggressively mid-fielding (colette comes to mind) then this ability is never going to matter.

If you're looking for fun combos, I highly endorse it because when it goes off, "boom goes the dynamite". But otherwise there are better synergies to focus on that are much more reliable.

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Yeah it seemed to me that the nature of the campaign doesn't seem terribly balanced anyway. I was a just looking for some ideas pros and con and appreciate it! I've also just realized that Toshiro is, in fact, a henchman, not the enforcer I've been using him as, so a new challenger enters the arena...

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Of the three I would likely take Toshiro first and Bettari second myself.  Toshiro makes a nice support leader that has several good upgrade options in the campaign.  His personal upgrade is also nice in that any sort of summoning in low model games tend to be pretty strong.  Either you can out endure an enemy crew or summon additional models to tie them up and slow them down.  And while he is not a monster in combat his own attack action is not bad with a good Ml6 and positive to hit.  One of the nice things though about Toshiro though is that he has plenty of options on the campaign upgrades that would work well for him.  Example would be +1 Ca, which would make his (0) actions need 7s rather than 8s, and his summons would need 8s rather than 9s.  Being able to get those off easier is always a plus.  Black Blood can also be a funny one as if they are to close in Melee and score a hit they can take damage from Black Blood and Bloated Stench. 

That said Bettari has some good options for upgrades as well.  +1Df, +1Ml, Even +1" reach on melee.  Even possible the one that gives terrifying 12 All would not be bad as it could limit their counter attacks.  If you had a trapper model and clockwork traps it would be useful having a trapper to summon the traps to give her extra movement that way but it would depend on what you have. 

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I would be happy with any of those really!

Toshiro - Probably the best choice for reasons of (unfortunate red joker damage notwithstanding) resilience, summoning and support, so he's not just a one-trick pony. Hits back alright too.

Ohaguro Bettari - A safe but boring choice. You'll learn how to use her well for regular games, but she'll mostly be stalking, killing, running and scheming. I used Ama No Zako during testing who would be fairly similar and she was pretty much going where she was needed and scheming. It was fun having a Terrifying Leader :) and the Thunders-specific Bounty was pretty easy to pull off with her for all her preventing damage and stoning for suits.

Yamaziko - Will be the hardest to use well. I'd like her for the challenge and the chance to drain my opponents' hand, but she's definitely more of a specialist than the others. But I think she would shine more once she is no longer the Leader.

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