Zipp & Iron Skeeters Smoke Marker

[Kobayashi]

It seems clear and dry, since nothing is written on the card, but still we wondered last time we played. Does Zipp's and Iron Skeeters smoke tokens give any kind of cover. If yes, which one or should that have been ruled pregame with the opponent?

If not, I can see the RAW, but from a life standpoint, I don't see why they won't give cover... cover does not mean it stops a bullet etc., but can help to misguide the enemy...

[Four_N_Six]

I don't have the skeeters card handy, but I believe their markers are blocking, and I know Zipp's is.  Blocking terrain does not automatically provide cover, it just blocks line of sight.  So you can position it to stop the enemy from seeing you and even being able to shoot, but it doesn't provide  for  attacks.

[Adran]

No they don't provide cover. If they did it would be in the list of traits. I would assume that they might be too good if they gave out cover as well. From a Fluff standpoint, perhaps you don't want to hide behind the smoke, so they don't actually make it any harder to hit you if they can see you. 

[Kobayashi]

No problem with that, was just checking if they might have given cover due to the "blocking" nature (we could not find anything quickly skimming through the rulebook), but I can live them not giving cover as well... so positioning them will be more a key factor. Thanks.

[Joel]

note that Zipp's are impassable too - but still not cover.  It just makes them useful in a different way.

[solkan]

Blocking and the Hard Cover and Soft Cover terrain traits aren't related pretty much because there's no way to guess whether a Blocking object is going to be Hard Cover or Soft Cover.  I mean, both a Brick Wall and a curtain would have the Blocking trait, but a Brick Wall would end up Hard Cover while the curtain would likely be Soft Cover at best.

Honestly, I think soft cover comes up more for things like light wooden fences, chain link fences, and so on, where you have bits that both obscure the target and would physically get in the way.  Smoke lacks the 'get in the way' part.

[Drakespirit]

Bumping this old thread because I ran into this exact situation a couple days ago.

 

So they way that its being play right now is there is no cover being added for the smoke, even though its a ht 5, blocking and impassable?

 

The rule book states "A model will gain the benefits of cover from a Projectile Attack when any LoS line between the Attacking model and the target model can be drawn through any terrain with the soft or hard cover traits that is within 1” of the target model."

 

if something is blocking AND impassable, I am trying figure out how it cant provide cover.

[Dogmantra]

1 hour ago, Drakespirit said:

if something is blocking AND impassable, I am trying figure out how it cant provide cover.

Because it doesn't have the Hard or Soft cover traits. I think it's mostly a balancing thing, to stop terrain-dropping models from dominating vs shooting lists so you have to block LoS totally rather than just hide a little behind the cover.

[Drakespirit]

so what im hearing is that the iron skeeters just need to hide in the mud as well.

 

ich, thats a fun thought

[Four_N_Six]

It makes sense that they don't provide cover.  It's just smoke.  Sure, you can't see through it to see what you're hitting, but if you can see a dude's arm sticking out of the side of it, you know there's an entire guy there to shoot at.  So in that type of situation, you know there's something to hit, and the smoke doesn't actually stop a bullet/arrow/fireball/bacon/whatever.

[Drakespirit]

ok, I found it in the rules

"No Line of Sight A model has No LoS to a target if no LoS line can be drawn between the acting model and the target model without crossing blocking terrain or the base of another model (friendly or enemy). If an Attacker has No LoS to a model, then that model is not a valid target, unless otherwise noted." ~ page 41

So if the figure is completely enshrouded by the smoke, you cant draw LoS , however, if you can sneak a peak at their base, it does not provide any cover at all.

 

This makes way more sense in my head now

[Cadaverousbirth]

"Halt, drunkard! Smoke cannot protect you from justice!"

-Batma- I mean Warden, caped