Leveticus thematic pool 20 models max.

[Peppi]

Hello,

We are creating some thematic but at the same time fun and competitive crews. The goal is to create a large enough pool (20 models max) for players who will be using 1 master and need a crew well-rounded. I've included a list but your suggestion will be most welcome, please suggested to me if add, remove, or simply reduce the number of models needed! (all the models in production are good).

 

Leveticus Pool (mostly Core and Outcast models)

3 x Hollow Wifes

Rusty Alice

4 x Abominations

Ashes and Dust

Desolation Engine

Lazarus

Johan

Big Jake

 

Pariah of Iron models

Ryle

3 x Necropunks

Flesh Construct

Iron Zombies

 

Generic Pool

Hodgepodge Emissary

Hodgepodge Effigy (Brutal Effigy)

Mechanical Rider and Metal Gamins

 

Note: the number of models is that one of the original boxes

 

Many thanks in advance

(The same post will be added to the various faction forums)

[solkan]

I read down to the Pariah of Iron section, and I'm baffled as to how you can claim thematic integrity.

But I have a more significant problem with "create a large enough pool for new players who will be using just one master".  That's terribly misguided, it seems to me, because you're putting together too many eggs in one basket.  Because it runs into the 'So you sunk $X in to a crew that you can't use for anything else, and discovered you like a different crew better" problem.

Don't push theme on someone unless they're more interested in collecting than playing.  

[Seadhna]

8x Abominations is a waste, don't go there. 

 

Ryle is a stretch thematically and does nothing that Lazarus can't do already (I think both are quite the opposite of fun). 

Soulstone Miner is a niche model that's unusable otherwise  

Get Necropunks and Flesh Constructs instead, they are the in-theme options. 

Riders are alright, but Mech is definitely the better option and needs his summons, so add 3 steam arachnids. 

[daniello_s]

2 minutes ago, Seadhna said:

Ryle is a stretch thematically and does nothing that Lazarus can't do already (I think both are quite the opposite of fun). 

Really? I don't think anyone wants to be in melee with Ryle when with Lazarus everyone wants to be in melee.

[Ludvig]

I'd go for a lot less models. That list may turn out.more stressful than helpful. Get a master box and one other box that compliments it well and have them try a few games. Learning model rules takes time, especially if you're still learning the basics.

[Ludvig]

2 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

Really? I don't think anyone wants to be in melee with Ryle when with Lazarus everyone wants to be in melee.

My peacekeeper laughs at Ryle in melee. A model like Joss or Langston is probably more different from Lazarus.

[Seadhna]

30 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

Really? I don't think anyone wants to be in melee with Ryle when with Lazarus everyone wants to be in melee.

At Df 4 and Wk 4, he won't get into melee with my models.

Still, I think both Lazarus and Ryle suffer from the same problem: they are, at a glance, really good at something, but then you realize Ryle is Sh 5 despite his [+] flips on attack and damage and Lazarus doesn't have [+] to attack flips, so Auto Fire is in most cases a waste of AP.

Why take any one of them if you can have Mad Dog or Sue for virtually the same cost and more utility overall?

[KrazyIvan]

6 hours ago, Seadhna said:

At Df 4 and Wk 4, he won't get into melee with my models.

Still, I think both Lazarus and Ryle suffer from the same problem: they are, at a glance, really good at something, but then you realize Ryle is Sh 5 despite his [+] flips on attack and damage and Lazarus doesn't have [+] to attack flips, so Auto Fire is in most cases a waste of AP.

Why take any one of them if you can have Mad Dog or Sue for virtually the same cost and more utility overall?

Laz's utility is in that he is firing 3 potential blasts, and at 3 different targets if he so chooses. That give him utility to try for shots at lower DF models with the potential of blasting on to higher DF models.

As for the while 20 model thing...going thematic is a stretch here (unless you consider undead and constructs in theme in general). If you wanted to stick with the whole undead construct thing I would put Necropunks and the Iron Zombies on the list. While they have no specific synergies (except with Rusty) they at least have the same look.

[Ludvig]

I think Lazarus in a Levi list with the mobile toolkit granting to damage should have a decent chance at some scary blasts.

[Peppi]

On 22/1/2017 at 8:37 PM, solkan said:

I read down to the Pariah of Iron section, and I'm baffled as to how you can claim thematic integrity.

I quite agree with you, thank you.

Keep in mind although that the thematic view of the crew is for us, quoting PullMyFinger about Leveticus: "a mob of scavengers led by a steampunk necromancer who recovers stray parts both dead and mechanical and salvages them into horrible new creations". So we like mostly human outcast with that look and undead/construct models. When we choose a model outside of the core crew or faction, we look more at the appearance of the model than at its history in the original faction.

 

On 22/1/2017 at 9:54 PM, Seadhna said:

8x Abominations is a waste, don't go there.

Ryle is a stretch thematically and does nothing that Lazarus can't do already (I think both are quite the opposite of fun). 

Soulstone Miner is a niche model that's unusable otherwise.

Get Necropunks and Flesh Constructs instead, they are the in-theme options. 

Riders are alright, but Mech is definitely the better option and needs his summons, so add 3 steam arachnids. 

I quite agree with you, thank you.

About Ryle and Lazarus: both are nice but different in role and both non strictly needed. Speaking of the theme of the crew as I said above, probably is better Ryle than Lazarus, my opinion. We are building a large pool and both probably can stay there and find a place in some game.

 

On 23/1/2017 at 4:50 AM, KrazyIvan said:

Laz's utility is in that he is firing 3 potential blasts, and at 3 different targets if he so chooses. That give him utility to try for shots at lower DF models with the potential of blasting on to higher DF models.

As for the while 20 model thing...going thematic is a stretch here (unless you consider undead and constructs in theme in general). If you wanted to stick with the whole undead construct thing I would put Necropunks and the Iron Zombies on the list. While they have no specific synergies (except with Rusty) they at least have the same look.

Yes, thank you.

 

On 22/1/2017 at 9:57 PM, daniello_s said:

Really? I don't think anyone wants to be in melee with Ryle when with Lazarus everyone wants to be in melee.

Thanks for your blog daniello_s !!! We love it !!! Just let your opponents win sometimes !!!

 

[Peppi]

On 22/1/2017 at 8:37 PM, solkan said:

But I have a more significant problem with "create a large enough pool for new players who will be using just one master".  That's terribly misguided, it seems to me, because you're putting together too many eggs in one basket.  Because it runs into the 'So you sunk $X in to a crew that you can't use for anything else, and discovered you like a different crew better" problem. Don't push theme on someone unless they're more interested in collecting than playing.  

 

On 22/1/2017 at 9:59 PM, Ludvig said:

I'd go for a lot less models. That list may turn out.more stressful than helpful. Get a master box and one other box that compliments it well and have them try a few games. Learning model rules takes time, especially if you're still learning the basics.

Ok. Your advice are great for totally new players and I agree, thank you to point out this important aspect.

We played a lot Malifaux during the last year as "the game". Each of us has collected almost all the models of a single faction. Some friends play sometimes using our models. We do not play in tournaments. Actually we're exchanging the masters because we prefer to play with different masters of different factions. It's a less competitive and intriguing way probably, but more balanced and fun. Access to all the models of one faction has greatly highlighted the technical differences between the players. So the idea is to assign us different masters with a good pool of models. That's all.

Edited: removed from the topic "for new players" it is misleading

[Ludvig]

@Peppi

The sentence were you expressly stated that this was for new players is what made me assume that was what we were talking about.

From your origial post: "We are creating some thematic but at the same time fun and competitive crews for new players of our club."

I guesd you meant that your experienced players should limit themselves against newer players?

I'll doa generalanswer in tvis thread.

From these new guidelines I would say your current Levi pool is off. Ryle seems to have been in the care of his little brother, Ramos or Anna through all the available story. To be thematic I would forbid any named constructs and probably make the Levi player decide on one of the pariah upgrades and stick to that.

The current themes are differently matched in versatility but if we're not talking tournament level competititve you should be able to handle that difference between themes to stay thematic which will probably be more rewarding. Lilith should be able to work with only nephilim, she has access to a lot of models even if you stick to that comparatively strict theme and she can still do a lot. If you start to water themes down it's aslippery slope. Ramosand Radpy also have such huge hiring pools even in-theme that they should do fine.

Edit: And if you are facing a new player with one master box and one other box the natural way to limit yourself is to do the exact dame thing, pick a master you're bad with and add one other box.