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simplex409

Terrain Lilith Crew Thoughts

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Hi folks,

I'm a newbie, just looking at which Neverborn crew to start with and playing a few tests on Vassal to get a feel for each before spending all my money on models. (I play with myself. I'll probably go blind.)

Sadly this means that my opponent is always completely rubbish so I'm unable to really gauge the effectiveness of a crew. Hence me asking for your cunning thoughts on such matters;

 

Lilith
 + Beckon Malifaux
 + Wicked Mistress

Nekima
 + Fears Given Form

Mysterious Emissary
 + Conflux of Blood

Doppleganger

Cherub

Waldgeist

Waldgeist

Pool of 6

 

The plan is to control the board through lots of terrain alterations with a bit of pushing, and then smack things in the face or run schemes with Nekima. Would something like this be at all worthwhile against real opponents? I don't own book 4 (yet) so I can't add any of that loveliness.

Also I'm not using Lilith's sword at all since forumfolks seem to think it best to avoid learning her as a beater.

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Entirely reasonable.

The Emissary varies depending on who you talk to.  I'd prefer to have Mr. Graves for his pushes in that list, and then a Terror Tot for schemes.  

But if you want to stick with a terrain theme, it's a good list.  Everything in the list is good.  I usually play Primordial Magic with Lilith, for all the card filtering, but Cherub has a place, especially in a high terrain environment.

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With 6 stones I would add wings of darkness to Lilith.  Now you ignore models when moving and the extra draw on stoning for cards is great.  And you will need a 4+:crow to make that hungry land, need all kinds of :mask for summoning and Lilith, so the card draw will really help.  I would also consider taking the generic upgrade on the ME.  It will help the Waldgeist hit more, and the BB on the ME is just not huge.

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Thanks folks :)

Keget, I have to admit it now... I didn't even see Mysterious Conflux - only the Master-specific upgrades. I attribute this to me being rather dim. Thank you for that, changed and updated along with the wings.

Cheers!

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Down the road, if you really want to go for a "forest" theme, there's always Titania's box to look for. Granted it's a different master, but  Aeslin, the Mysterious Emissary, Autumn Knights and Waldegeist will really have a gnarled forest look. They are also quite tough, which is very rare for NB.

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Between Waldgeists, the ME and Lilith you will eventually just be putting down forests because you can, not even because you need to. ;)

Also, note that Waldgeists get the 4" reach if they are in contact with any severe (?) terrain, not just their own.  Lilith can set them up, or they can drop their trees somewhere else while Lilith handles giving them 4" melee.

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Sybaris - Yeah I do like the look of pretty much all Titania's crew and I'l most likely run her and a gnarly looking forest themed gang in the future :) For now I'm still learning to play so I think 3 books worth of choice is more than enough for my poor brain to handle! 

Ergonomic Cat - Yeeeeaaaahhhh, the thought of covering huge swathes of the board in forest 'just cause' really does appeal to me. With Lilith ignoring LoS and most of the others actually benefiting from view-obscuring trees, it strikes me as just plain mean fun :P Doubtless not particularly effective against a good player but as long as it's fun I don't mind losing.

Actually, while I'm here and getting cool input from folks, a question on Collodi's crew...

I'm looking at a themed crew - nothing allowed that's not a puppet - but that Beckoner is Sooo tempting. Is there a good puppet-type puller that anyone can point me toward or am I best to cheat and tweak the Beckoner model to make her look like a mannequin? The alternatives I can see are Bunraku's Snatch with a rubbish range or Voodoo Doll's Sewn Fate which eats Collodi's own AP. Are there better options?

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On 1/22/2017 at 8:55 AM, simplex409 said:

Ergonomic Cat - Yeeeeaaaahhhh, the thought of covering huge swathes of the board in forest 'just cause' really does appeal to me. With Lilith ignoring LoS and most of the others actually benefiting from view-obscuring trees, it strikes me as just plain mean fun :P Doubtless not particularly effective against a good player but as long as it's fun I don't mind losing.

Yeah, that's really it.  While it may not be a winning team in a lot of scheme pools, it's absolutely hilarious to place down 4 sets of dual 50mm markers all over. ;)

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On 23/01/2017 at 3:55 AM, simplex409 said:

Ergonomic Cat - Yeeeeaaaahhhh, the thought of covering huge swathes of the board in forest 'just cause' really does appeal to me. With Lilith ignoring LoS and most of the others actually benefiting from view-obscuring trees, it strikes me as just plain mean fun :P 

Late to the party but worth to note is that only Lilith's illusionary forest actually block line of sight. The Waldgeist's trees are only severe and soft cover.

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I've been using Lilith terrain lists quite successfully since Wave 5 and her new upgrade. Though I focus on Hazardous Terrain rather than simply just walls/cover.

  • Lilith with her terrain upgrades
  • Grootslang (1-2 depending on schemes) 
  • Ama no Zako (I'm still debating if this one makes sense)
  • Lilitu for Luring models to Lilith's terrain
  • Graves for pushing models to Lilith's terrain
  • Baby Kade for pouncing & a lure if I'm really desperate
  • Serena to give models like Baby Kade Black Blood & keep Lilith from nasty anti-WP conditions

I've had the Mysterious Emissary in the list originally, but I don't think I'm getting full value out of it, so lately I've been leaving Mysterious at home. Grootslang bounce around their lairs for schemes, and can show back up in the middle suddenly for some nice positive twists to everything attacks with all Liliths markers around. And they're immune to hazardous even when Lilith isn't around, so she can leave minefields and not impair the Groot. I tried out the Cherub last night after I realized I could now shoot my own models with the hazardous terrain aura and not hurt them if they are near Lilith, but I was fighting against a Sandeep mage gunline so I didn't get much use out of it.

 

The terrain list really really can restrict where enemies are comfortable fighting. When Lilitu can pull something into hazardous terrain, triggering Baby Kades pounce, and then take damage when they activate in the terrain, only to take black blood damage when they actually attack, it's pretty glorious. And it happens a lot more often than one would think. Especially if you drop a ram trigger on any Lilith's attacks for even more terrain...

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On 3/21/2018 at 6:05 PM, Clockwork_Fish said:

I’ve always loved Kade with Lilith.  His damage is bananas and he does well hidden away behind Lilith’s trees.  The points reduction just makes him better.

Especially when you bring Lilitu to lure things to him for a pounce and a 4" engagement range for his bonus damage... and Serena to give him Black Blood so he's not hurt if other things do get attacked

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Gonna re-animate this thread with my own thoughts about Terrain Lilith Crew. I personally focus on using hasardous terrain then just forests. Especially with marvellous upgrade from 5th book.

Declared Faction: Neverborn
Crew Name: They Came 45|50ss

Leader: Lilith - Cache:(4)
- Beckon Malifaux 1ss
- Living Blade 2ss
- The Land Consumes 1ss

Cherub 3ss

Doppleganger 7ss
- Useless Duplications 1ss

Serena Bowman 7ss
- A Thousand Faces 1ss

Mysterious Emissary 10ss
- Mysterious Conflux 0ss

Beckoner 6ss
- Warped Reality 1ss

Bloodwretch 5ss

So, what's the plan?

Firstly, we have a pair of Lilith and Beckoner. Placing the "living belle" wia FtS can give Lilith up to 12 inches of of free movement before her first turn activation. So she can get to the middle of the table, drop a hasardous terrain marker, grow some trees to block LoS and start fishing opponent's models. Who will get 3+ 1|2|4 damage flips without actually being attacked.

Cherub and Emissary makes the second part of team, The winged boy enchances both Beckoner and Lilith with hasardous terrain auras - while both of them are immune to damage from it. In addition, he allows us to drop some free scheme markers to summn changelings on first turn. The big walking tree drops even more hasardous terrain markers, summon changellings (who can copy Lilith's Living Blade with build-in pluses on both attack and damage flips) and give more pluses on attack flips to our minions (most basicly saving our cards).

The last, but not the least, is a card-cycling engine which contains Dopel, BW and Serena. It gives us a 6 cards to draw (discarding 3) in a turn. Besides, Serena can offer us some additional condition-removal and black blood for nearly everyone. 

And we still have 5 SS to spend, depending of what we need. I'm thinking about Bandersnatch, who can bury to Lilith, and use his attacks with built-in pushing trigger to give her some free Living Blade attacks.

 

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