Last Blossom Smoke and Shadows Build

[Shintoninja]

I want to build  a crew around the Last Blossom upgrade Smoke and Shadows.  Focused on scheme running and objective based strategies.

Any Suggestions would be appreciated.  

Currently the Oiran are on order and I just recieved a Jorogumo from a very generous friend. 

So this is a build I'm considering. High Mobility from S&S and additional poison damage from Shadow Emmesary. 

 

Masaki w/ Stalking Besento, Recalled Training, Hidden Agenda. 

Shadow Emmesary w/Thunder Conflux. 

Jorogumo 

3 Oiran 

2 Tokarage 

 

 

[OneLittleThunder]

I wouldn't count on getting the S&S teleport off very often. I did a fairly detailed statistical analysis here:

...but the short version is that you have about a 17% change of getting Shadow Stride to go off when flipping off the deck. So unless you want to spend 2 AP on a less than 1 in 5 chance that anything happens, you'll want to have the card in hand. I wouldn't count on having more than one 6+ of Masks in hand per turn...so the S&S move is much more likely to be an occasional bonus than something I think you can build a crew around.

[Pyrflamme]

As he said, it's not 100% reliable but can lead to some cool infiltrations when you do pull off the teleport.

I might consider dropping an Oiran or two and squeeze in a Guild Pathfinder. It's dual faction 10T/Guild, and the box also comes with Clockwork Traps that you can either hire or summon. With From the Shadows on the Pathfinder and Traps, it lets you set up teleports as early as the first turn.

[koronuslight]

18 minutes ago, OneLittleThunder said:

I wouldn't count on getting the S&S teleport off very often. I did a fairly detailed statistical analysis here:

...but the short version is that you have about a 17% change of getting Shadow Stride to go off when flipping off the deck. So unless you want to spend 2 AP on a less that 1 in 5 chance that anything happens, you'll want to have the card in hand. I wouldn't count on having more than one 6+ of Masks in hand per turn...so the S&S move is much more likely to be an occasional bonus than something I think you can build a crew around.

This. I mean, you can take an all Last Blossom list, but at most you're getting 2 in the first turn, if very lucky. At least that is the most I have ever had used against me. Other results may vary.

 

[Shintoninja]

I totally understand that the concept of difficult to execute but there are some fail saves incase the S&S doesn't play out in the cards.

 

 Masaki and the Oiran will be tag teaming with or with out S&S. Hidden Agenda and Stalking B on Masaki with Oiran playing front line defence. Oiran can't be charged and Masaki Driving charge sounds like a decent strategy to me. And if the chance arises I could S&S them else where.

The Jorogumo is definately the main piece for S&S. And I would want it first turn. 

The Torakage are also good candidates but to a lesser degree. 

And finally. All minions are Poison dealers to work with Shadow Emmesaries Dragons Breath. 

Guild Pathfinder sounds cool and I do like the Traps.  Seems like a good control piece. And a good friendly model to Unbury from. 

 

Though I thought maybe of using a Katanaka Sniper instead of a Torakage. 

So IF I'm going to take the S&S I'm going to have the most Models possible to use it. 

 

It is thematic and most likely not competitive but I want to give it a try.  

[Paradigm]

I've been playing around with the idea of trying to squeeze in one of all of the Last Blossoms. It will be pretty bad and in no way something I would play competetively, but I like to have cool thematic crews to play as a challenge for myself when facing newer players. That way I get to use a bunch of cool models that never see the light of day otherwise, and the handicap makes it more likely the actual game will be close and exciting for both players. The crew would look something like this:

Misaki

-Disguise

-Misdirection

-Hidden Agenda

Ototo

Yamaziko

-Smoke and Shadow

Jorogumo

Wukou Raider

Torakage

Oiran

 

If I wanted to use Smoke and Shadows in a more competetive way, I'd basically only hire a Jorogumo and Yamaziko to hold the upgrade. I would then do the usual cruise missile Misaki with pushes from Sensei Yu, while hoping to be able to bury the Jorogumo and unbury it by Misaki once she's stuck in. The Jorogumo would basically be functioning as a tank for Misaki to pass of attacks to with Misdirection, as enemies don't get to resist the redirect when you pick a friendly model as the target. The Jorogumo can hopefully do a good job of keeping Misaki alive longer, while hopefully being able to heal itself with Eat Your Fill once or twice.

[Patzer]

As others have pointed out, the teleport is unreliable. The smoke markers are more reliable, but their price is quite steep so they have real draw backs too. Still I think they are the best way to get mileage out of SaS. Torakages or Oiran becomes quite slippery against a lot of crews if they can stay behind markers. I have a hard time seeing SaS being a competitive choice since it requires a batch of luck (semi-high masks on t1 for the teleport) or a high price (higher cards for the smoke-markers). There should always be more efficient options at hand. 

[Shintoninja]

The Jorogumo ,Masaki ,Misdirection  combo is pretty darn good with or with out S&S. 

I agree that it is unreliable.  If the expectation is to teleport multiple models every round that isn't possible. But using S&S to have a single first turn teleport like  Jorogumo then utilize it in the later round for dropping markers and repostitioning makes me want to try.  

If S&S is not reliable enough to field for scheme running and strategies not combat  oriented as TT (Masaki or She long) then what is? 

 

Thanks for all the responses. 

 

Edited January 16, 2017 by Shintoninja
My grammar sux

[Patzer]

6 hours ago, Shintoninja said:

 

If S&S is not reliable enough to field for scheme running and strategies not combat  oriented as TT (Masaki or She long) then what is? 

The faction got heaps of pushes and places. TT Bros, Tengus, Wandering River Monks can get places themselves. While Sensei Yu/Shenlong can push other models like crazy with Wandering River Style, Shadow Emissary and Mr Graves too. There is a ton to pick from.

[Kogan Style]

Can you chain the placements of the models at the end of the turn? For example 2 Jorogumo successfully bury themselves, at the end of the turn they place within 6" of a friendly model (lets say a Katanaka Sniper in the enemy half) Can you place the first Jorogumo within 6" of the sniper, then the second Joro within 6" of the first Joro? 

[Shintoninja]

 

4 hours ago, Kogan Style said:

Can you chain the placements of the models at the end of the turn? For example 2 Jorogumo successfully bury themselves, at the end of the turn they place within 6" of a friendly model (lets say a Katanaka Sniper in the enemy half) Can you place the first Jorogumo within 6" of the sniper, then the second Joro within 6" of the first Joro? 

Now that is a great question! 

I cannot reason an argument against it.

If anyone else does speak up 

 

That certainly increases the depth of infiltration and increases the value of S&S. IF you could get two or more strides off per turn. 

[koronuslight]

8 hours ago, Patzer said:

Sensei Yu

This   

 

Also, there is no specific wording against chain unbury for S&S. Just within 6" of a friendly model. Shang and the Effigy make great unbury points for this purpose. 

Also also, I would recommend if you can get it on turn 1, use Smoke Bombs first then trigger Shadow Stride, just because then you only need an unsuited 4+, and still drop two 50mm. It's essentially how to get 4 AP out of a model in a single turn, to walk, drop and vanish. That's how my main TT opponent always did it to disappear in turn one, burn an activation early on, and place LoS blocking. 

[OneLittleThunder]

Going off on a bit of a tangent...I wonder if it would be fun/effective to build a list intended to abuse both Smoke & Shadows and Hard Worker (which lets Foundry models ignore markers when drawing LoS)? Something like:

Mei Feng
Kang (Hard Worker)
Yamaziko (Smoke & Shadows)
Jorogumo
Willie
+12-15ss to taste

The idea would be to move up towards the center on Turn 1 - I'm visualizing this for something like Guard the Stash - and then on turn 2+, do something like this:

1) Jorogumo lays down Smoke Bombs. If he gets the trigger, he does a Shadow Stride and vanishes; otherwise, he can Wander the Earth through the smoke markers and go engage something, or hang back for later. (This could be an Oiran against Neverborn or someone else that would make her Wp buff worthwhile.)

2) Kang and Willie stand behind the smoke markers and shoot through them. Willie has a 10" range, does blasts, ignores armor, and gives Burning (all on  flips if the target is a Construct or Undead). Kang can do the same stuff, albeit with only a 6" range. Most opponents can't charge or shoot them because of the smoke, and if something walks up, Kang and Willie (and maybe a Jorogumo) are also competent in melee. Kang can even push them back out to the other side of the smoke markers. And both of them can shoot through Stash markers as well, thanks to Hard Worker.

3) Mei Feng and Yamaziko can run schemes or pick off targets of opportunity. Yamaziko may want Smoke Grenades, particularly against a shooty crew.

The remaining stones could be used for a bunch of fun additions:

• Ohaguro Bettari could wait behind the smoke wall (and the other models) and then charge through all of it if a good target gets close.
• Thunder Archers - who needs line of sight? These guys could replace Willie and maybe Kang, so you could use a different Master if you prefer.
• Additional Jorogumo/Torakage/etc. could help with fighting, scheme running, and/or provide additional smoke markers.
• A Rail Worker could use his (0) attack to pile on damage after Willie/Kang sets something on fire. And could charge out through the markers.
• A Metal Gamin could help boost Kang's defense and/or throw out some Magnetism damage against enemy constructs.
• Recalled Training for everyone! (And Mei will probably want some upgrades too.)
• Other ideas?

Obviously it would be situational depending on terrain, schemes, opponent, etc., but I feel like it might be worth experimenting with. Guard the Stash against Ressers or Arcanists would probably be the ideal situation, and probably not in Corner deployment because most of the crew is pretty slow. Reckoning could also be good - this makes a nice little fortress.

Thoughts?

[scarlett fever]

If you're determined to use S&S as a key part of your plans you can always take Tannen (leave it to luck) for leverage. 

[MagicGis]

I dont understand the S&S hate it was a relevant part of my  gameplan in several games in 2016. 

 

Most noteably with Misaki Jorogumos and when occupy was in the pool. 

I collected masks with rush etc . Jorogumo are tanky enough to still fight and tank in that time. 

Tannen tends to fit in this kind of crew anyway also a solid hidden agwnda carrier if you wanna try oiran. 

 

Than one turn firat activations suddenly the joro go puff... misaki dives whereever she wants. Joro pops out ... usually was a great scheme ^^

[Shintoninja]

5 minutes ago, MagicGis said:

I dont understand the S&S hate it was a relevant part of my  gameplan in several games in 2016. 

 

Most noteably with Misaki Jorogumos and when occupy was in the pool. 

I collected masks with rush etc . Jorogumo are tanky enough to still fight and tank in that time. 

Tannen tends to fit in this kind of crew anyway also a solid hidden agwnda carrier if you wanna try oiran. 

 

Than one turn firat activations suddenly the joro go puff... misaki dives whereever she wants. Joro pops out ... usually was a great scheme ^^

Yeah I don't understand it either.

It can be unreliabile, without the proper cards  you had better have a backup plan. If it works out though it has multiple uses for all schemes and strata.  

Just being able to place a model or models deep at the end of turn one can change alot for schemes and strata. 

6" inches for a friendly model is good especially with Snipers on the board. 

If you get two models buried then you can stretch the distance to 12" by placing your first model  then using it as the friendly model to place the second. 

 

I not planning on a getting a Tennent model any time soon.  Not for the +2crow.

Misaki is my obvious target for the Oiran's Hidden Agenda.  

Get Masaki out clubbing seals early round then have the Oiran clean up the leftovers or run interference to prevent Masaki from becoming targeted or taking serious damage.

Not being able to charge Oiran is well put to use.  Also with 3 AP they are going to be able to do what you need.

 S&S or not. I'm going to try it out.  

 

I'm also going to try the Jorogumo and Masaki with Misdirection combo. 

Again powerful enough to enhance what Masaki already does and spending the extra SS to attach S&S well that is just gravy if it works. 

 

I'm sure I will post results favorable or not but it is worth a try. 

 

 

[Somnicide]

Sort of on topic, is it worth getting misaki without the rest of her box?

[Patzer]

4 minutes ago, Somnicide said:

Sort of on topic, is it worth getting misaki without the rest of her box?

Shang is nice to have. The rest isn't fantastic. 

[Shintoninja]

 

8 minutes ago, Somnicide said:

Sort of on topic, is it worth getting misaki without the rest of her box?

If you play TT get her anyway you can.  

The others are nice but generally are not used. 

 

[Patzer]

I don't hate SaS, I just think that it requires too much resources for top level of play. It can certainly work though, and its heaps of fun when it does.

[Somnicide]

7 minutes ago, Shintoninja said:

 

If you play TT get her anyway you can.  

The others are nice but generally are not used. 

 

Thanks, I was thinking about getting the vintage Misaki, but don't want to end up having to get a second one in the box.

[Shintoninja]

Hope you find that model. 

The actual vintage model or the plastic?  Because I want either myself. 

With Masaki's box you don't get anything thing you absolutely need but are nice to have.

Shangs Rush of Magic is always good. There are better heals for Masaki from other models. 

Ototo is a situational beater and has some decent abilities. But he isn't a survivor.  Framed for Murder comes to mind. 

 

The Torakage are jack of all trades models.They can do it all , nothing too well though and not reliably. But a 6" walk is always good running. 

[Tokapondora]

I'd honestly say it'd be a shame to leave Shang and Ototo out. Shang is a good addition simply for the card draw and extra activation, and Ototo can really shine in some specific crews. The Torakage are nice but I never really get to use them unless I actively try to include them.

[Nikodemus]

I like Torakage, pretty nifty generalists. I wouldn't buy a crew box just for them though. Ototo is a nice beater, but there's a lot of beaters in the faction. No unique tricks to him either. Haven't played enough Shang to judge the pup.

It's a neat box but I wouldn't worry about missing faction essentials if you go and grab vintage Misaki.

[koronuslight]

1 hour ago, Patzer said:

Shang is nice to have. The rest isn't fantastic. 

Shang has uses. Ototo really shines with McCabe though, giving him Nimble and being within range for Promises.