Collodi 101

[EpicWaffle]

Hi everybody  I generally am a gremlin player but I recently picked up Collodi cause I really liked the flavor of the crew (also trying out some other factions is always nice).

I get the general idea of collodi and how you're supposed to prepare a list with him (kinda ) but it's really different to what I'm used to, so I was wondering if someone is willing to share some puppet master knowledge  especially relative to crew composition (which models work well with him etc.) and some nice tricks that maybe pass under the radar  

At the moment I have:

-Collodi's box

-widow weaver

-teddy 

- bunraku's box

-doppelgänger

-arcane effigy

-lucky effigy 

-stitched' box

-lazarus

thanks in advance for the answers

p.s. I did read throughout all the tactcita but since the lates response were kinda old I though off making a new post

[mo11usq]

WHERE IS THE BRUTAL EFFIGY!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!?!!

Beckoner is also now a virtual auto-include for me.

Otherwise you've got most of the good stuff. Some Coryphee to partner with Vasilisa for enemy backfield schemes wouldn't hurt.

You can see some Collodi battle reports on my YouTube channel. I'm by no means an outstanding player, but there may be some useful tricks in there somewhere.

[Ergonomic Cat]

Not really helping, but I'm 100% with you.

I keep looking at Collodi on the shelf and thinking "Man, I'd like to bring him out."  And then I start to think about him, and realize I just don't have an idea of how to play him, even as a starting point.  Every other master I can grok their feeling, even if I lack the subtleties.  For Collodi, I just don't even know where to start....

[Vorschlag]

Collodi is a really fun master to play and very effective (though he did score me first non-win in tournament recently -draw) I would suggest picking up a mannequin for scheme marker spamming and the brutal and shadow effigies for amazing buff bubble with the right upgrades.

[DeadManTalking]

My favorite Collodi lists involve taking Hannah and Lazarus giving Collodi six AP a turn all of which can be focused attacks.

[EpicWaffle]

13 hours ago, mo11usq said:

WHERE IS THE BRUTAL EFFIGY!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!?!!

Beckoner is also now a virtual auto-include for me.

Otherwise you've got most of the good stuff. Some Coryphee to partner with Vasilisa for enemy backfield schemes wouldn't hurt.

You can see some Collodi battle reports on my YouTube channel. I'm by no means an outstanding player, but there may be some useful tricks in there somewhere.

Brutal effigy is almost in my hands and about the coryphee, I have them, I'm just too dumb to remember to put them in the list xD I'll sure give it a look thanks

[Bakuriel]

Two hilariously powerful synergies to note with Collodi that I absolutely adore.

 

1) Lazarus and Collodi. Collodi slaps himself for Fast with Strum the Threads, then goes ape expletive, before accomplice activating Laz, who Assimilates My Will to use on Collodi before Auto-firing.

 

2) Envy and Fated Collodi. Due to a quirk of wording, Envy uses his 0 to give Collodi focused, by making him take the Focus action. This then pulses out into his 6" bubble of murdery death, all for the low-low cost of a single card from your hand.

[Mutter]

16 hours ago, ConfuciuSay said:

My favorite Collodi lists involve taking Hannah and Lazarus giving Collodi six AP a turn all of which can be focused attacks.

Hannah can't copy stuff from Collodi, because he's a master but no Freikorps ...

[Sybarite]

My base is

Collodi, fated, strum the threads

Brutal Effigy

Arcane Effigy 

2 Stitched Together

2 Marionettes

1 Insidious Madness (fast scheme runner which is cheap and can wp debuff stuff for Collodi

Then I add two 7ss models. Usually it's a combination of Coryphee, Illuminated and Lilitu. Trapper is a nice option as well. I have yet to try the shaman.

I am fairly new to Collodi, but it's gone really well so far. Placed 2nd in my latest tourney where I played Collodi half of the time

Oh and Collodi is an "it". Collodi is never referred to as a "he".

[DeadManTalking]

2 hours ago, Mutter said:

Hannah can't copy stuff from Collodi, because he's a master but no Freikorps ...

You are correct, but she can copy Lazarus who is Friekorps to then copy collodi to use My Will for the 6th Ap

[Vorschlag]

This is what I run with him regularly, it seems to work in most circumstances and he has won all but one game which he tied.

Collodi -3 cache 5
fated
strum the threads
breath life

Widow weaver 11
-mimics blessing
-handbag

Stitched together 6
stitched together 6
Mannequin 4
Brutal effigy 4
shadow effigy 4
Marionette 3
Marionette  3
hodge podge/arcane/wicked doll -4

[EnternalVoid]

Cannot off the top of my head remember ever losing a game with Collodi though I have gone lighter on Neverborn last year.  So mind you this did not see a lot of 2016 Gaining Ground.  Collodi and Pandora are my tournament masters, though partially because the models I prefer for them are all painted up.  Have not had the heart to tackle the dreamer's selection yet.

A list that often springs up for me with Collodi was Collodi w/ Strum the Threads, Fated, Threads of Fate, 4x Marionettes, Brutal Effigy, Arcane Effigy, Illuminated, Beckoner, Performer, Maniquien.  It did not have a true beater but between number of attacks, alpha strikes, and being able to lure/siren call, and disrupt it did very well.  Arcane Effigy was nice for removing key conditions and supplying burning to Collodi's attacks if they did not drop cards.  I took Threads of Fate with him because at the time the local meta was dirty with lure actions and the like.  I imagine I will have to re-examine it at some point to adjust it to 2017 play, same with my Pandora selection.

 

[Mutter]

13 hours ago, ConfuciuSay said:

You are correct, but she can copy Lazarus who is Friekorps to then copy collodi to use My Will for the 6th Ap

Ah, yes, indeed ...

[EpicWaffle]

12 hours ago, Vorschlag said:

This is what I run with him regularly, it seems to work in most circumstances and he has won all but one game which he tied.

Collodi -3 cache 5
fated
strum the threads
breath life

Widow weaver 11
-mimics blessing
-handbag

Stitched together 6
stitched together 6
Mannequin 4
Brutal effigy 4
shadow effigy 4
Marionette 3
Marionette  3
hodge podge/arcane/wicked doll -4

Cool list! Never considered bunrakus instead of stitched?

[Vorschlag]

19 hours ago, EpicWaffle said:

Cool list! Never considered bunrakus instead of stitched?

No, I don't like them, they seem more suited to bag of props collodi and I'm specifically focused on  fated collodi when I use him.

[EpicWaffle]

3 hours ago, Vorschlag said:

No, I don't like them, they seem more suited to bag of props collodi and I'm specifically focused on  fated collodi when I use him.

Did a game yesterday with 2 stitched and 2 bunrakus and I must say you're right. They are nice for their "lure" and being able to take focus for free is cool when paired with something like "my will" but I wouldn't take more than one. Would had been better to have something else like a beckoned for the same job.

[Kouzelnik]

Recently I'd a game against Lady J and lost only 1 model (Shadow Effigy, which was a sucker).
I was testing this roster:

-Collodi, cache 4
-Fated
-Sturm the Threads
-Threads of fate

-Doppleganger
-The Illuminated
-The Illuminated
-Beckoner
-Stiched together
-Mysterious effigy
-Shadow effigy
-Carrion effigy

[Kirby]

There are several crews being listed, but how do they work on the table?  What's your general activation order and operational goals?

One problem I see with these crews, which is somewhat mitigated by Illuminated and Stitched, is that there tend to be a bunch of low-cost Minions running about.  They don't hit hard, they don't have much staying power, and they don't apply crippling conditions.  What do they accomplish?  How do they deal with opponent threats?  Any kind of standard defenses such as Armor, Hard to Wound, Hard to Kill, etc. seem very difficult to deal with.  Are you relying entirely on Collodi's 3AP to get real work done?

What does a typical turn or game look like for a Collodi crew?  How does it do what it wants without getting murdered or shut down?

[EpicWaffle]

1 hour ago, Kirby said:

There are several crews being listed, but how do they work on the table?  What's your general activation order and operational goals?

One problem I see with these crews, which is somewhat mitigated by Illuminated and Stitched, is that there tend to be a bunch of low-cost Minions running about.  They don't hit hard, they don't have much staying power, and they don't apply crippling conditions.  What do they accomplish?  How do they deal with opponent threats?  Any kind of standard defenses such as Armor, Hard to Wound, Hard to Kill, etc. seem very difficult to deal with.  Are you relying entirely on Collodi's 3AP to get real work done?

What does a typical turn or game look like for a Collodi crew?  How does it do what it wants without getting murdered or shut down?

I don't have that much expirince with him (3 games :| ) but for what I saw that is exactly the "problem". As you mentioned models like illuminated, stitched etc (I really wanna try out teddy ) but the way I "felt" the crew was as a crew that want to accomplish things in earlier turns rather than expecting to pass turn 3/4 with more than a  couple of pieces alive. You need a couple of good beater to keep the tough guys busy while collodi pull some strings here and there to set everything up and some support/runners to make sure you score the points. From being a die hard Somer fan, it's in some way similar to how I play him (while Francois , Burt and Somer put some cover fire, bayous go for those sweet schemes) and it's a "tricky" play style to get used to, since you need to know what to use and when to in the right moment. That's my humble opinion so I don't really think there is a "pattern to follow" aside from maybe turn one where you wanna use some minor activations to put yourself in the situation of being able to "get" what's on your opponent mind. From there I think the key is to be really versatile to your opponent actions (is he going for your beaters? Go score some points and lock down his models with collodi and your stuff; he's going for the schemes and ignoring your illuminated? Show 'em what's good and make em shine like a lightbulb).

I'm still a huge noob and need to practice more but I guess that's the mind set to have when playing with puppets (hope I didn't throw out garbage informations xD )

[EpicWaffle]

1 hour ago, Kirby said:

There are several crews being listed, but how do they work on the table?  What's your general activation order and operational goals?

One problem I see with these crews, which is somewhat mitigated by Illuminated and Stitched, is that there tend to be a bunch of low-cost Minions running about.  They don't hit hard, they don't have much staying power, and they don't apply crippling conditions.  What do they accomplish?  How do they deal with opponent threats?  Any kind of standard defenses such as Armor, Hard to Wound, Hard to Kill, etc. seem very difficult to deal with.  Are you relying entirely on Collodi's 3AP to get real work done?

What does a typical turn or game look like for a Collodi crew?  How does it do what it wants without getting murdered or shut down?

I don't have that much expirince with him (3 games :| ) but for what I saw that is exactly the "problem". As you mentioned models like illuminated, stitched etc (I really wanna try out teddy ) but the way I "felt" the crew was as a crew that want to accomplish things in earlier turns rather than expecting to pass turn 3/4 with more than a  couple of pieces alive. You need a couple of good beater to keep the tough guys busy while collodi pull some strings here and there to set everything up and some support/runners to make sure you score the points. From being a die hard Somer fan, it's in some way similar to how I play him (while Francois , Burt and Somer put some cover fire, bayous go for those sweet schemes) and it's a "tricky" play style to get used to, since you need to know what to use and when to in the right moment. That's my humble opinion so I don't really think there is a "pattern to follow" aside from maybe turn one where you wanna use some minor activations to put yourself in the situation of being able to "get" what's on your opponent mind. From there I think the key is to be really versatile to your opponent actions (is he going for your beaters? Go score some points and lock down his models with collodi and your stuff; he's going for the schemes and ignoring your illuminated? Show 'em what's good and make em shine like a lightbulb).

I'm still a huge noob and need to practice more but I guess that's the mind set to have when playing with puppets (hope I didn't throw out garbage informations xD )

[EpicWaffle]

And double upload :| sorry not know why it got posted 2 times

[EpicWaffle]

6 hours ago, Kouzelnik said:

Recently I'd a game against Lady J and lost only 1 model (Shadow Effigy, which was a sucker).
I was testing this roster:

-Collodi, cache 4
-Fated
-Sturm the Threads
-Threads of fate

-Doppleganger
-The Illuminated
-The Illuminated
-Beckoner
-Stiched together
-Mysterious effigy
-Shadow effigy
-Carrion effigy

I would drop maybe and illuminated for a stitched and a couple of extra ss for cache, but otherwise seems to be solid! Maybe breath life instead of threads of fate? I think that upgrade works better with the other limited.

[Kouzelnik]

Yes, you are right, but we have a lot of lures in our meta  and I was trying an illuminated roster ( without Lazarus, second stiched and so on)
 

[mo11usq]

Quote

There are several crews being listed, but how do they work on the table?  What's your general activation order and operational goals?

Hate to shamelessly plug my channel again, but I have 25 Collodi games that might demonstrate some of this for not too dissimilar lists.

This next bit is not necessarily aimed directly at you Kirby, but tries to address your points for newcomers to Collodi who might have similar questions.

Puppets 101:

Quote

 They don't hit hard

True, the lower cost minions do not hit hard, though I would add that they can hit a lot. Generally their purpose is running schemes/supporting others to do them, or choking up parts of the board to thwart your opponent. 

Quote

somewhat mitigated by Illuminated and Stitched

Correct! the high cost minions can brawl with the best of 'em. Effigy buffs, focus, and fast/AP transfer enable them to deal with more than they could normally be expected to handle.

 

Quote

they don't have much staying power

I disagree, there are generally a very high proportion of hard to kill and Armour+ models in Collodi crews. Puppets have low wounds but decent defensive stats, liberal access to defensive stance (fated), healing (effigies) and just keep coming back (Collodi and Widow Weaver summon). Low cost is your friend here, it can be very frustrating for enemies to have to use AP from powerful models to get rid of 3/4 stone grunts. Collodi is one of the most durable Neverborn.

 

Quote

and they don't apply crippling conditions

I disagree strongly, Collodi is all about conditions. Slow, AP stealing, burning or card discard, poison, paralyse, - to df and wp... the list goes on. Its not about 1 or 2 crippling conditions, its about TONNES of crippling conditions. Not to mention all the great buff conditions most of the crew gets (usually for cheap AP cost)  

 

Quote

 How do they deal with opponent threats?  Any kind of standard defenses such as Armor, Hard to Wound, Hard to Kill, etc. seem very difficult to deal with.  Are you relying entirely on Collodi's 3AP to get real work done?

Okay. General answer: 
Hard to wound = high min damage (e.g. stitched, illuminated + Brilliance, Lazarus)
Hard to kill = conditions (burning, poison), or more commonly just a billion attacks
Armour = ignores armour (rets eye, widow weaver, Ronin)

More specific:
With lots of little puppets making up activations, Collodi can afford to bring some big friends. I've had a lot of fun with double Mature Nephilim. Widow weaver is great vs masters and henchmen. Lazarus can be a threat for anyone. Doppleganger is as nasty as whatever they brought - probably nastier.

Lots of boosted minions ganging up will put most things in the ground. Lure some poor sap in and eliminate, barring counter spell aura you are going to get your target (beckoner+Collodi+Doppleganger = potentially 9 lures per turn).

With 3-6 AP, Collodi is pretty lethal himself. I find 4 AP per turn is sufficient to position, pick off a model, and pass out some buff. He is normally my main killer.

Collodi can kill, but very often he doesn't need to. With just one weak hit he can take any non-leader model out for the turn. slow means it can't charge, idle hands can be as good as paralysed and better if combined with slow. Many models in his crew give out slow (Coryphee, mannequins, brutal effigy, Waldgeist), big threats start to miss that AP. If you didn't bring ignores armour (fool!), you can pseudo-paralyse that peacekeeper all game. My Bidding and idle hands makes that big hitter rather unpopular for anyone to be around, helping to minimise its support.

Collodi crews are not without weaknesses. You will generally struggle to kill enemy masters, which can lose you a bit of momentum if you let them get their groove on. Low wounds does make your stuff fragile especially against enemies that ignore armour and hard to kill. I have lost many games trying to out-muscle Guild without first shutting down their danger models as described above. Once Collodi starts drawing consistent heat you are in trouble. Positioning, as always, is key.

[BileBelcher]

I've had a lot of fun (but yes it's nasty and not fun for the opponent sometimes) playing:

Collodi (strum, dated, wings)

primordial 

brutal effigy

Nekima (or Lazarus with Retributions Eye)

Doppleganger

3 Stithed Together 

 

This list pumps out damage from far away and with all the Puppets going fast and helming when they damage it can be gross. Fast Stitched Together ar frightening. Plus Collodi can make many models slow each turn. Nekima can die pretty quick and Lazarus just never dies. I am going to try a list with multiple Bunraku soon and try to stack armor throughout the crew.