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Wlokk

Are Infiltrators lack luster?

21 posts in this topic

How you guys feel about them? I'm having a hard time coming up with when I would use them other than token removal/debuff.

They seem too slow to call them scheme runners.

AV 3 (1 in melee) with strength 1 seems like you should never fight with them or rely on them at least.

The mine field seems cool but i wonder if the marker is too small?

I guess i just feel like i would rather have 1 unit of riflemen or dragoons over 2 units of infiltrators.

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4 minutes ago, Wlokk said:

How you guys feel about them? I'm having a hard time coming up with when I would use them other than token removal/debuff.

They seem too slow to call them scheme runners.

AV 3 (1 in melee) with strength 1 seems like you should never fight with them or rely on them at least.

The mine field seems cool but i wonder if the marker is too small?

I guess i just feel like i would rather have 1 unit of riflemen or dragoons over 2 units of infiltrators.

I feel like you are missing something. They are not a kill unit to me but more of a harassment unit and what does it is the confuse action. I read this and the first thing I think of is to get rid of reinforcement tokens. They are not a battle unit but one that can be very opportunistic in there targets unlike the riflemen and dragoons which are main line combat units. As they are cheap and a any where but your enemy's deployment zone they can get objectives and leave the killing to other while they wait for a good target. If the only thing you are looking to do is kill then the infiltrators are not for you.

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They do exactly as their name suggests :D 

They most certainly apply infiltration tactics, meaning they are small, lightly equiped infantry attacking enemy rear areas while bypassing enemy frontline strongpoints and isolating them for attack by follow-up troops with heavier weapons. 

They are the scalpel while others are sometimes the hammer or anvil.

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Also, from watching the games, it really doesn't look like we're going to have units as designated 'scheme runners' in this game. Everything seems fast enough to do that, and it seems you can spend Tactics tokens to take objectives so your units don't have to spend their own actions.

Approaching units as if the game is Malifaux seems like the entirely wrong way to analyse a unit.

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All good points.

Quote

They are not a kill unit to me but more of a harassment unit and what does it is the confuse action.

Right, but it has to be able to hit things to really harass them. with the exception of stalking portals the only things with Def 3 are titans and they have tons of armor (except for the hydra).

I agree that the confuse action is good, but seeing as I'm buying a kings hand, Its 1 script asset symbol of the king does that same job as a broader stroke.

 

Quote

They are the scalpel while others are sometimes the hammer or anvil.

  •  

But as a scalpel don't you need to be precise? AV 3 means you're at a disadvantage to to hit (almost) everything, while still having the damage (1 str) of a scalpel.

Quote

Approaching units as if the game is Malifaux seems like the entirely wrong way to analyse a unit.

I think there is an argument for either side of that. I feel like the rules sets are so close to each other, that you might as well. Any unit can help you get VP in Malifaux, there are just so may options that it's obvious some are better at killing and others that are better at objectives, whilst still some others that aren't as good at either.

I guess looking at the Rilfe corp. and Dragoons I can see them doing anything well, both have good or better movement, attack, defense, armor and tricks. they also cost almost twice as much. In my head I have to compare 2 units of infiltrators to a unit of rifles or dragoons to justify their costs.

I see them as having 3 pros. starting out of deployment zone, token removal/debuffing, and cheaper activation.

I suppose it doesn't help that there isn't any other 5 cost unit to compare it to.

 

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I can't say too much on them other than they are really good when applied well. If used incorrectly then they do not work in your favour as much as others could (scalpel).

In certain scenario's you are also looking for a hammer or anvil. Their larger advantage for me is how they flank and how flanking is very effective as per most army games. 

As said there is a real difference between a skimirsh game such as Malifaux and army game such as The Other Side :D 

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Tried them for the first time last night and wasn't impressed, but then they did get charged first turn! So understand the comment above but we'll try them again next time to see if they can be useful.

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I think if Mines were on their front side with a slightly bigger marker my opinion on them would change.

 

If you could turn 1 be near an objective, grab it with 1 team and drop 2 mines with the others to help protect it. I can see them having a place. 

They obviously have inclinations to controlling the board (tokens /terrain) but with one of them on the glory side, other than king's Had awe inspiring, I ave a hard time seeing when it will get use.

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1 minute ago, Clousseau said:

Tried them for the first time last night and wasn't impressed, but then they did get charged first turn! So understand the comment above but we'll try them again next time to see if they can be useful.

Tips:
- Deploy at the outmost corners of the board or
- Deploy directly in front of something that is much more expensive
- Have 2 Fireteams in front, one in back

I really cant go too deep into it but they are absolutely worth the 5 scrip for KE the 'in your face' and 'shoot your face there' approach works really well.

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9 minutes ago, JDAntoine said:

Tips:
- Deploy at the outmost corners of the board or
- Deploy directly in front of something that is much more expensive
- Have 2 Fireteams in front, one in back

I really cant go too deep into it but they are absolutely worth the 5 scrip for KE the 'in your face' and 'shoot your face there' approach works really well.

Playing skaven I've heard of these "screening tactics" but they seem a little too expensive to be a speed bump. If they were 4 script I'd be more on board with that. Otherwise i Like your thinking!

(insert icon of a British man with monocle, officer cap, and twirling a bushy mustache here)  I SAY! WOT WOT! Ol' BEAN!

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2 minutes ago, Wlokk said:

Playing skaven I've heard of these "screening tactics" but they seem a little too expensive to be a speed bump. If they were 4 script I'd be more on board with that. Otherwise i Like your thing!

(insert icon of a British man with monocle, officer cap, and twirling a bushy mustache here)  I SAY! WOT WOT! Ol' BEAN!

Hmm well at 50 they are just 1/10th of your Scrip :D and their numbers are just wonderful for that. In many cases they work out well and if you do start they are an instant headache for your opponent.

 

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53 minutes ago, -Loki- said:

Everything seems fast enough to do that, and it seems you can spend Tactics tokens to take objectives so your units don't have to spend their own actions.

From what I remember, this isn't right...

I thought it took an action and a Tactics Token to take an objective. Thus having some cheap units that can deploy anywhere to take objectives and pad out activations could be a good idea. 

This was what the KE player did in his first activation against the GH in the playtest video anyway.

There's also no other cheap KE unit so if you only have 5-6 script left, then they are probably your best choice. 

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I need to start practicing my cringe worthy British Officer/aristocrat accent. In a year It should be a gas to play against.

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1 minute ago, Da Git said:

From what I remember, this isn't right...

I thought it took an action and a Tactics Token to take an objective. Thus having some cheap units that can deploy anywhere to take objectives and pad out activations could be a good idea. 

This was what the KE player did in his first activation against the GH in the playtest video anyway.

There's also no other cheap KE unit so if you only have 5-6 script left, then they are probably your best choice. 

That is my understanding as well. And with 5-6 script left It that or every Fire team gets an adjunct.

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14 minutes ago, Da Git said:

From what I remember, this isn't right...

I thought it took an action and a Tactics Token to take an objective. Thus having some cheap units that can deploy anywhere to take objectives and pad out activations could be a good idea. 

This was what the KE player did in his first activation against the GH in the playtest video anyway.

There's also no other cheap KE unit so if you only have 5-6 script left, then they are probably your best choice. 

Aha, seems I misunderstood that. However, it did seem like a lot of units are fast enough to go grab objectives, and given ranges and board size you'll often have units in place to take an objective that normally you wouldn't consider in Malifaux, like when the GH player took an objective with his Titan.

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I found them hard to get my head around at first too - not a playtesting so this is all theory - but there are a couple of things to consider:

First there seems to be a KE/Abyss stratagem that allows you to "summon" a unit up to 6 script. So they work for that.

Secondly, because they can deploy already in range, you can turn 1 give them the focused effort order to gain an inspiration, first unit confuses a target removing an inspiration/reinforcement token and replacing it with a shaken token. Then you have the option to shoot twice at effective av5 (burn 1 token on each) or once at effective av7 (burn both tokens) instead of 3 av3 shots. They are not going to devastate your opponent, but I can see them being a pain while everything else gets into position.

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Cant go too deep into it ;) But believe me when I say they work out well when played well. @Skitt_Happens has the right plans for it. @Sedraxis has seen them used against him and I feel he too valued the unit obnoxious enough to consider.

The biggest advantage of them is that they are a 5 scrip unit that cant really be ignored, but if you focus too much onto them you end up spending effort in cleaning up something that isn't technically too relevant to the King's Empire players succes, by large because if opponents do not close the gap between them and the KE the KE continues the game in an advantaged position as they are capable to pretty much attack everything with other forces.

Like Malifaux everything can work out suprisingly well if you spend enough cards into it. This also applies to Infiltrators. Like Malifaux things can also die relatively quick if you do not spend cards on it OR generally have a bit of bad flips. 

I like them and I am what you could consider a 'competative player' and I would certainly call them competative. @Aaron is crazy good in designing.

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Latest set of cards increases the infiltrators AV on their pistols to 4 (up by 1).

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Compared to crow runners at 1 point more? I'd say no without tabletop experience showing me different. 

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On 1/29/2017 at 3:29 AM, Dejavu said:

Latest set of cards increases the infiltrators AV on their pistols to 4 (up by 1).

This changes my opinion a little bit in all honesty 4 is a usable number, 3 wasn't.

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The main job of Infiltrators is Objective Markers. They take advantage of Camouflage.

But because of weak Stats, they don't stand for long. What's more, friendly units probably have problem with shooting into engagement.

Maybe the Field Intelligence Corps are the better choice for Empire.

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