Shifting Loyalty Advice

[InvokeChaos]

Hello fellow recyclers!

So going into a Shifting Loyalties campaign and am waffling heavily on where to go with my starting list. I have narrowed it to Valedictorian, Vincent, Sybelle, Anna Lovelace and Datsue Ba.

Any advice on who would be a stronger or weaker pick?

I can pretty much build into any master, as I like them all. But that would be another aspect... who would be good to build into. I've only played in a campaign once and briefly, so I really don't know the best way to go about things.

Thanks!

[EnternalVoid]

The first thing that is important is to know what Scheme packet you are using and take a hard look at the Suit Schemes as they are the ones that will show up the most often.  Stuff like the original with Assassination and Breakthrough will be vastly different with the new 2017 ones like Frame for Murder and Dig their Graves.  The second is to see if any upgrade appeal to you with those henchmen.  Something like +1 Ca on Anna would be pretty strong while +1Df would be nice on almost any of them.  Another thing to remember is you can only start with one upgrade, meaning those like Vincent, Datsue, and Sybelle will almost always be their personal upgrades.  Val and Anna have a bit more open field here but don't have those really nice personal touch ones.

Personally I would favor Val or Anna myself as they are rather well rounded in terms of capability.  Val is fast, decent at combat, several defensive abilities, has Lecture Notes, and Furry if you need it.  Anna has a range action, rush of magic, some defensive tricks about movement and placements on top of solid Df and Wp, and has plenty of campaign upgrade options that would be good with her.   That said the other three all have good value too so are worth considering.

[Freman]

For my two cents, I would start with Mortimer with Spare Parts, then grab Corpse Bloat with the scrip for the second week. Being able to fairly reliably put a Guild Autopsy on the table each turn has to be helpful.

[InvokeChaos]

Yeah I looked at the mortimer idea, but I just feel like in this format I really don't want to help my opponent by wounding my "master" like that. Plus I'm not a huge morty fan in general.

I do need to figure out what schemes we are using though as that's a great point on how much it influences.

Will report back when i have that  

[Four_N_Six]

My campaign list started with Sybelle, 3 Belles, and Datsue Ba.  That was more because I was just starting ressers, and that was all I had available other than some spirits at the time, but it has worked effectively.  I'd probably avoid all 3 Belles in the future.  Being able to disrupt your opponent's positioning can be a big deal, though.  Especially in the early games with smaller crews.

[tehluhlah]

I've done Sybelle for a leader building towards Seamus and Valedictorian as a leader building toward McMourning. Valedictorian was stronger for me out of the gate but my Sybelle list was effective and really got better as I was able to hire more stuff. 

 

I started a campaign that didn't finish with Anna Lovelace and she didn't work all that well for me, but that was just a few games so not a great example

[InvokeChaos]

Yeah I have been really considering doing Nicodem for the campaign, and I am leaning towards running Sybelle with a couple of belles, a graveyard spirit and something as a lead up to him.

Especially because I have alt nico, which is just pretty!

But I like that idea of Valedictorian as a progression to McMourning... gives me an excuse to use rafkin.

[Je ne c'est LaCroix]

 

On ‎05‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 0:57 AM, EnternalVoid said:

The first thing that is important is to know what Scheme packet you are using and take a hard look at the Suit Schemes as they are the ones that will show up the most often.  Stuff like the original with Assassination and Breakthrough will be vastly different with the new 2017 ones like Frame for Murder and Dig their Graves.

I'm just about to dip my toe in the festeringly stenchy resurrectionist pool of putridity for the first time, using a Shifting Loyalties as my way in. I had (I think) settled on a pretty summony/beaty start to it, with a Mortimer + Spare Parts, Toshiro, Punk Zombie and Yin, shooting for a week 2 of Valedictorian and Ups Command the Graves and Corpse Bloat. Headed eventually for Nico.

However on a brief look at the new 2017 GGs they look a little more schemey.. Does that mean I shift out a Yin for runners? I'm guessing my potential Guild Autopsys and Ashiguru won't quite be up to it?

 

[InvokeChaos]

I really feel I want to start with a couple of scheme runners in my arsenal just because of GG2017. So I'm kind of building around that concept. I'm starting to really seriously lean towards Sybelle, belles, necropunks/crooligans. Then add some form of beater or so.

[anencephalous]

My experience with Shifting Loyalties is that it is best to start with a smaller number of tough models. Firstly, the low ss games are often decided on turn two or three with a few models being killed, resulting in an untenable position for one player. Secondly it is much easier to add small models to a crew as you go along than try and save for a big purchase. And thirdly because your models are more likely to survive and not pick up injuries.

I have seen Sybelle and Valadictorian do well as leaders. I have seen Datsue Ba do poorly.

Ressers are one of the most tricky factions to pick for in shifting loyalties, because (at least in my meta), people tend to take Enchanted Weapons, making all the incorporeal models a bit squishy.

[EnternalVoid]

I have only played Ressers once for shifting loyalty myself, and it was an unique one our Henchmen was running so we actually started with a Master.  But I have played a few and faced off against other resser crews at least.

I have seen varying approaches to Shifting Loyalty.  Some take numbers and just accept that if a model is rendered crippled by a injury they just let them drop to the wayside and keep going.  Others went for value of models and were smaller crews and of course there were those that took a middle path with 1-2 solid models and then flack.  Of the three I have generally favored numbers or the middle path.  With the 2017 schemes I think I would try to fit at least one Necropunk and one Rotten Belle into my crew for the options they give.  Necropunks are pretty durable for scheme runners thanks to Hard to Kill, hard to wound, and when they do take damage the ability to self heal though you do have to keep a 7+ handy to make sure Leap goes off.  A rotten belle can disrupt others plans or just plain make your opponent nervous with lure but can also early on be used to get a little more movement out of your own models.  Adding 4" to a Necropunk or henchman's first turn with the Belle advancing and luring can mean all the difference in their threat reach.  After that it would likely depend on my plans and henchman choice.  Though when I did run Seamus in that one campaign I found a Nurse and Canine remains pretty good company for the belles.  Sometimes you just need bodies to score on schemes and Strategy.

[Erorior]

A tiny bit off topic, but if you want to do a curve ball in your choice of master, you can always go for Yan Lo. With the help of the upgrade Good Lead, you could  try o get your hands on a relic hammer and the +1 Ml to Mr. Yan. Then you go for the avatar and field the emissary. With a planned manifestation and the soul porter, you can have a Yan Lo (on a now 50mm base) doing a hunpo assault with a range 3" Ml8 Relic Hammer landing amidst a couple of enemy models. Since he gets bone ascendant when he manifests, he can throw on another ascendant upgrade for the survivability-buff of your choice. I did this during a campaign of ours, and it worked... a bit too well...

[InvokeChaos]

@EnternalVoid one of my looks was actually to go crooligan, necropunk, doxie, bell... because its only like 20pts for more models that have a lot of utility. Would that be too little "kill"? If I took sybelle with an upgrade i would have six points for something to assist in murderfacing which isn't that much.  But arguably with pounces and lures and sybelle, i should be ok? Or ditch down to get another beater (maybe the crooligan for a valedictorian?)

@Erorior that sounds fantastic! Hmmmm

[EnternalVoid]

I would consider a beater of some sort or at the very least a disabler, such as a Nurse.  The problem is you don't always want to rely on pounce because some want you to draw them into the middle of your ranks *such as Vik of Blood*.  I like a Nurse because she can serve a dual role in this regard, first turn she can give something like a Canine remain's +2 Walk for 16" of movement and later on she can serve as a disruption piece.  A beater that is hit with any of her triggers can have a hard time working as long as you did not give them the melee buff while engaged.  Odds are people will not have more than 1 or 2 beaters in their list, and one might be softer than the other.  Otherwise it is likely flack and you can do pretty well against that.  Sybelle's upgrade is nice as if your opponent pushes to hard with their hand you can suddenly pull out the Crow trigger and they might be forced between letting the model go down or dropping two precious SS. 

In our campaign my nurse and two canine remains did an amazing job once, she drugged both dogs for +2 damage and they went to town on the enemy engaging both of them.  Having your 4ss model change into a 3/5/6 damage spread with infect and the target at -2 defense was brutal.  It will not always work that way but the nurse can really change the game if you have the ability to move models around, something Dead Doxies and belles, not to mention Sybelle as she can call them, can do.  In another game the Nurse managed to drug Marcus two turns in a row preventing him from doing the spells he wanted to.  She was also able to give my leader the damage buff once so he could break through Armor +2 of a target I needed to soften up.  To top it off I eventually got her +1Ca so she was Ca7 to make it that much to escape her.

Sybelle w/her upgrade, a Nurse, Dead Doxie, Rotten Belle, Canine Remain, and a Necropunk would not be a bad core to start with at 34ss.  I like Canine remains because of their Df debuff aura but if you want you could exchange it for a crooligan instead for From the Shadow.  With the smaller crews it is more likely the Crooligan can be off alone to one side scoring and with Accusation being a Suit scheme it will show up fairly often.

[Mutter]

On 9.1.2017 at 1:42 AM, EnternalVoid said:

In our campaign my nurse and two canine remains did an amazing job once, she drugged both dogs for +2 damage and they went to town on the enemy engaging both of them.  Having your 4ss model change into a 3/5/6 damage spread with infect and the target at -2 defense was brutal. 

How did the dogs charge with 'Hallucinogens'? Isn't it Ml actions only?

[EnternalVoid]

12 hours ago, Mutter said:

How did the dogs charge with 'Hallucinogens'? Isn't it Ml actions only?

I never said they charged.  They were engaged from the previous turn.  I said they changed into a 3/5/6 damage spread, not charged into.

[Mutter]

5 hours ago, EnternalVoid said:

I never said they charged.  They were engaged from the previous turn.  I said they changed into a 3/5/6 damage spread, not charged into.

Ah, sorry, I misunderstood. Thought I'd missed something ...