Yasunori - Auto Include?

[qoob]

Hey guys!

I wanted to ask for your opinion regarding our new beater model. Is it an almost auto include for you? When do you use him? When not? 

I'm a little bit unsure. He is a great model on it's own - but TT is , IMO, the faction with the most expensive models. So the model count per game is relatively low in comparison to other factions. Am I willing to spend 12 stones then? I could go by the rule: If there is space for him, take him with you. 

 

[Eclipse]

Rather than 'the faction with the most expensive models' you probably mean 'the faction with the highest concentration of expensive models' (mostly true of our Minions)?
Yasunori is the only -really- high cost model we have, while we do have a number of 10ss options.
I have not played with him yet nor do I have the model (although I am working on a conversion). I would not take him in every game even if I did - with this high cost he really limits what else I can take and practically cements me in elite crew territory, while I prefer varying between 7 and 9 activations in my crews.
In addition, he points towards mayhem and murder - which is great if this is what the schemes want, or if you can deny opposing schemes with it. He is not optimal as a scheme runner IMO and as such I would often prefer taking another fast, killy-ish model most of the time (Ama no Zako and the Dawn Serpent have not disappointed me so far).
I would take him when I can give him some Sensei Yu support and when taking two-three cheap minions to pad activations would be appropriate.

[santaclaws01]

He's only an auto-include with Asami, otherwise it depends on schemes. Hunting Party being suited means we're going to see a lot of him because he's very good at eating through minions. Any other list I'd much rather have either Lone Swordsman or Izamu. Lone Swordsman is better at taking out key models that have annoying defenses like Armor, HTW, HTK, Incorp, etc... and Izamu is more durable.

[Patzer]

Far from an auto include. Yas is best suited with Asami, McCabe, and Shenlong. The Emissary should make Yas tick too, but that is 22ss... I dont think I would take him with Misaki for example. 

[OneLittleThunder]

He is very good at more or less auto-killing one key enemy model; after that, he often ends up dying to concentrated fire because he is such a big threat. I'd take him if the schemes/strategy/opponent call for a single big alpha strike, and if his death won't be a huge blow.

[Nikodemus]

1 hour ago, santaclaws01 said:

Hunting Party being suited means we're going to see a lot of him because he's very good at eating through minions.

Not in GG2017 it isn't. It's on a number. Current Crow requires you to make a kill per turn within 4'' of your own scheme marker. See here:

 

[santaclaws01]

1 minute ago, Nikodemus said:

Not in GG2017 it isn't. It's on a number. Current Crow requires you to make a kill per turn within 4'' of your own scheme marker. See here:

 

Oh right. I got frame for murder and hunting party mixed up regarding which one is suited and which one used to be suited.

[Somnicide]

That being said he's not terrible for Frame For Murder. It's almost 2 guaranteed points and maybe 3 depending. Otherwise you get to let him rampage for fear of giving you those points.

Also remember that her trigger doesn't specify same target so you can pretty easily get in range of 2 minions and might kill them both (charge target A hit him, get trigger, hit target B, 2nd charge attack onA, trigger for B).

[Kbonn]

Yas seems great with McCabe, Brewmaster and Asami.  Everything is good with Shen

[tomjoad]

I wouldn't say Yasunori is an auto-include at all, but that if your goal is murder, Yasu is likely your best bet. I'm trying him out in as many crews as possible right now to get a feel for where he's best and when to avoid him. I've mostly been playing Asami though, which means he's been uniformly awesome. In a recent Yan Lo list, though, he kinda stunk. I left  The Judge on one wound, after the dumb Austringer missed his Kodoku attack to finish him off, and then Aionus and McMourning killed him in 2 hits (by way of a Red Joker and flipping two severes on a  damage flip ). The biggest problem there was that I split the party and all the killing happened too far away from Yan Lo to get the Chi.

I expect Yasu to be aces with Shenlong and McCabe as well, so I'll be adding him to my next few crews with those guys to see how it goes.

[InvokeChaos]

Absolutely not an auto-include but a strong possibility always. I have run Yasunori in every list since I've gotten him, just testing the field, and he is a game changer. Not so far as he does anything particularly ridiculous, he's just really good for what he is and more importantly gives some crews a "OMG" target. That's something I feel we lack as a whole.

Outside of the Emissary and Huggy, our non-master models typically don't slot into the "quick kill it with fire!" category. I think the mental pressure alone that he brings is incredible. Every opponent I've played him against, even when he wasn't stellar, HAD to think of how to deal with him. When you force a question that your opponent has to answer, you've gained an advantage.

Quick breakdown on the various master's and Yasunori:

Yan Lo - Can make him Armor 3, heal him and help deliver models into his incredible threat range. Great sage is fantastic for prepping for an ancestor Rez and the extra card draw is always welcome for Yan.

Shenlong - Pushes and fast, plus condition removal and healing... yes please. These two tandem well because you can rocket them both up the board and really put some serious pressure on your opponent. Yasu requires dedication to bring down thanks to his 12 wds and armor 1 and the healing from shen just magnifies that.

Asami - between some repositioning from her drag and her 1AP charge, Yasu likes Asami. Yasu's damage track isn't worth the focus +2 Asami can grant, though. Like Yan, she could also pull models into range, and with her reposition trigger get out so that Yasu can go to work.

NOTE:  The 1AP charge is effectively giving Yasu fast. For a 1AP drag, Asami can pull Yasu into position and then he can charge for 1AP... or Shen can push him into position for a 1AP action, give him fast off that action and you have the same thing. Just food for thought  

McCabe - the makes everyone better master, giving a shirt or the badge to yasu is fantastic. And let's not forget Mounted Guard... That just seems wrong, if not a bit overkill!

Lynch - no particular synergy here that I see. Other than the pitch an ace for defensive. But fielding Yasu AND Huggy on the same table makes your opponent really have some difficult decisions to make.

Mei Fang - can use her vent steam to help him stay alive at range until he's within charge range but otherwise no real synergy I can see. 

Brewmaster - makes everyone better by making your opponent worse! Swillmaster just means that Yasu is hitting against a negative with a positive... nasty.

Misaki - No direct synergy again, but she never minds a big nasty diving with her. Also, with the new changes to Misaki this year, Yasu potentially can fill the role she performed as beater, while you take her as more of a damaging-control master. Could be good!

 

[tomjoad]

An additional realization from using Yasu and Yan Lo in conjunction: Yan Lo can best aid beater allies by 1) healing them every turn and 2) Lightning Dancing your enemies into their engagement range. This is why Yan Lo and Izamu or Yin work so well together. He can bring enemies in towards them and they can chop up/bog down those enemies. Izamu and Yin are incredibly slow, so this help is important. Yasu, on the other hand, is wild super fast, so Yan Lo's ability to bring targets in for him is going to be much less valuable than it is for a model with wk4.

Point is, I suspect that I'll end up favoring Izamu in Yan Lo lists going forward, even given the incontrovertible fact that Yasu is the bestest and I love him.

[InvokeChaos]

I don't think it is much less valuable. Being able to create pincer points by having Yan on one side and Yasu on the other, but a lightning dance suddenly puts an enemy between them and Yasu's incredible charge range allows him to completely change his positioning.

It doesn't shore up a weakness at all, but it does open up some other doors.  At least in theory   

[Tokapondora]

As someone who's always favoured elite crews, I'm surprised at how often I leave him aside. I mean, he's certainly good, but he doesn't do everything. And if your opponent knows to expect him, he can be shut down rather thoroughly. As for the master I feel he goes with...

Yan can make more use out of the ancestors, all of which augment Yan's playstyle rather than run independently alongside it.

Swillbot 3000 makes good use out of Yasu's speed, essentially allowing him to tag models to die without having to waste AP trudging a beatstick in their direction. Doesn't tend to fit the schemes I take Brewie with, though.

For Mei he's just another beater. Which is nice to force your opponent to divide their attention, but ultimately doesn't bring anything unique I'd justify 13 points for.

Shenlong likes beaters but I feel the biggest thing he brings to beaters is pushes and healing, which Yasu is generally too detached from the unit for to really benefit as much from it as say an Izamu. 

Lynch doesn't do anything with him either besides the usual high card hands. Makes for a nice counterpart to Huggy and Lynch creating a triangle of death, which is how I like to play Lynch. I often have him there since Huggy's 0 points anyways. 

Now Lucas and Misaki I feel really get the most out of him.

Misaki because she plays best when her own crew is an effective crew in and of itself, and a crew needs something scary so your opponent will be occupied with them while Misaki harries their backline.

And McCabe really makes him shine - covering for his lacking defenses, amping his speed up to 11, and most importantly being able to keep up with Yasunori pumping on all cylinders. With McCabe pushing his crew around already, Yasunori can really ditch the brakes and do what he's built to do while the crew will be just a few steps behind cleaning up the mess he's made. Something of a cavalry charge, so to speak. 

[Gottkaiser]

I've created some lists with him now, but only recently had the chance to put him on the table. I think with his 12SS he is really no autoinclude, though he brings a lot of punch.

 

I played against a Titania Crew and my opponent rushed all three autumn knights and a Waldgeist up the board. I used pushes and fast to get a charge during turn one, killing one autumn knight and hurting the waldgeist a little. The fun part came when another autumn knight used the "push into base with me. You attack, I attack". My attack hit, I used the trigger for the bonus attack and hit the trigger, getting a third attack and killing the second autumn knight :D.

In the end, Yasunori killed 2 autumn knights, a waldgeist and Titania herself. I guess he'll definately see more action in my games from now on.

[spooky_squirrel]

On 1/3/2017 at 6:47 PM, Tokapondora said:

And McCabe really makes him shine - covering for his lacking defenses, amping his speed up to 11, and most importantly being able to keep up with Yasunori pumping on all cylinders. With McCabe pushing his crew around already, Yasunori can really ditch the brakes and do what he's built to do while the crew will be just a few steps behind cleaning up the mess he's made. Something of a cavalry charge, so to speak. 

This is who I plan to try him out with. Specifically Wild Ones (McCabe) with the Donuts of Doom. Their cavalry charge and Yasunori's ability to trigger an additional AP on them will be interesting, especially with the already activated bonus and the VP bonus to damage.

[qoob]

2 hours ago, spooky_squirrel said:

This is who I plan to try him out with. Specifically Wild Ones (McCabe) with the Donuts of Doom. Their cavalry charge and Yasunori's ability to trigger an additional AP on them will be interesting, especially with the already activated bonus and the VP bonus to damage.

McCabe is the only crew where the 12 points doesn't really "hurt" because of cheap Guild Hound activations. I mean you can easily have 8 activations with Yasunori in your Crew. And as you guys already stated a Badge of Speed  or a Strangemetalshirt on Yasunori? why not 

[Gottkaiser]

I ran him today in a Crew with Jacob Lynch. With Huggy for zero points, he really fits well.

We had flank deployment, extraction, convict labour, hunting party, leave your mark, covert breakthrough and inspection. I chose hunting party an breakthrough as I was up against von Schill.

My Crew: Lynch (Rising Sun, Peaceful Waters), Huggy (Recalled Training), Sensei Yu (Wandering River Style), Yasunori (Recalled Training), Shadow Emissary (Conflux of Hunger), Terracotta Warrior, Low river monk, depleted.

It was a rather brutal game. During the first turn Huggy killed one Freikorps Man in the center, Yasunori killed the Freikorps Trapper and moved into position for next round. My opponent was totally overwhelmed by the Punches dealt by the Duo and ended up making bad decisions. In the end, he was only left with von Schill, while I had lost only the Monk of Low River, the depleted and Sensei Yu.

I think that, like in a McCabe Crew, he can fit well in a Lynch Crew, as you can get enough activations. In addition, he can really shine to bring Huggy back. Either he kills someone that was "marked" by Lynch or Huggy, thus bringing Huggy back, or by killing off the depleted himself and bringing Huggy back en passant. And together with the terracotta warrior he is a really annoying model to remove.

[Mutter]

2 hours ago, Gottkaiser said:

... or by killing off the depleted himself and bringing Huggy back en passant. And together with the terracotta warrior he is a really annoying model to remove.

Rising Sun is enemy models only, I'm afraid.

[Gottkaiser]

Ah, yes, forgot that. In that case, the depleted may live ;).

[Paradigm]

Has anybody tried Yasunori with Brewmaster? If I'm understanding the rules correctly it should be possible to Obey Yasunori to let him attack AND trigger both of his extra attacks, even if he has already done so himself during his activation. Yasunori with seven attacks seems pretty good.

[Gottkaiser]

No, but that is mainly due to the fact that I don't like brewmaster. In my case, I would rather got with Ama no Zako and her promising whisper. In an Asami Crew this could lead to some very mean situations, giving Yasunori possibly 3 charges (needs fast and proximity to Asami).

[Paradigm]

Unfortunately Promising Whispers doesn't allow the targeted model to use triggers. Same goes with the mask trigger on Wukou Raider. Brewmaster's Obey seems to be the only way to give Yasunori extra attacks out of activation that allows triggers. Sad, but probably for the better balance wise.

EDIT:

On second thought, did you mean that you can use Promising Whispers to have Yasunori charge as a 1 AP action? Nice idea! Would you be allowed to use triggers on the attacks that are the result of the charge?

[Gottkaiser]

Yes, that's what I meant. If you give him fast, he can then charge for 1 AP, kill stuff, charge again for 2 AP, kill stuff. Then, either move Asami towards him oder him towards her and then make promising whispers let him take another charge for 1 AP. Situational, but seriously nasty.

[Patzer]

On 2017-01-15 at 9:52 AM, Paradigm said:

Has anybody tried Yasunori with Brewmaster? If I'm understanding the rules correctly it should be possible to Obey Yasunori to let him attack AND trigger both of his extra attacks, even if he has already done so himself during his activation. Yasunori with seven attacks seems pretty good.

The triggers refers to Yas' activation, so Brewie could make him swing a ton more. A lot of fun with Recalled Training.