How to "read" Malifaux?

[Pinocchio]

Okay I know how to read!

But in all seriousness this is something I have been struggling with not just in Malifaux but in Wargaming in general for as long as I have been able to roll dice and flip cards.

I've been on the tournament scene in the UK for the past year and I notice a huge difference between your average tournament goer and a "Master" level tournament player, not just that they win but it is how they read the models and how they are able to compose lists that can adapt to nearly every strat and scheme pool the event throws at them.

I've always been the type that plays with a core group of model and expands my knowledge of new models by swapping them out now and then. I find I learn best from experience I.e. I see Izamu is great for slicing things up, but he would need some help from a belle to bring the target over, etc. But what i've seen from the top players (looking at Lord Henry!) who can look at a model and exploit many things that I never thought of  or clearly say whether a model is worth getting or not (I.e. finding Ronin amazing or building a Nicodem list where you can get between  5-7 corpse markers on turn 1, etc.).

So I guess the question I'm asking is how do you read into the potential of a model?

I don't feel it is right for me to go up to a top player and ask them questions on such issues because a ) it took them effort to reach where they are and so why give someone a shortcut? b ) It seems cheap just to imitate their list/style and play with it.

I've done rather well for my first year (88th best in the UK, aiming to be in the top 30 by the end of 2017), but I'm still trying to figure out what makes you go from 2 wins and a loss or 2 wins and 2 losses, to 3 wins or 3 wins and a loss, etc.

[SurreyLee]

The biggest difference i've noticed in my gaming is simply play more games, more often against better opponents than yourself. Losing games in a friendly environment where you can make errors and discuss things afterwards means, hopefully, you are less likely to make errors in a tournament setting.

Most of the top players that i've talked to for example are hitting double digit tournaments each year as well as regularly playing a couple of games a week. If someone has played twice as much as you, you'd expect them to be better than you.

Play more. Learn from your errors and maintain having fun. 

Also, I've not yet found a player in the scene as a whole who won't give you advice/tips/reasonings. They might tell you things but your playstyle will likely always be your playstyle. 

[Ludvig]

Number of games seems to be a strong factor. I have read and listened to a lot of tactica and tried to think through strategies bur I have trouble getting games in to test my theories out. Even when trying to nearly copy a winning list I can't get nearly the same mileage out of it as a good player. The guys that play twice a week learn models by making the mistakes and learning from them. That gives a much deeper understanding of how stuff translates from paper to board.

[Freman]

Set up a board at home and play games against yourself if nothing else is available. Give every model Bayou Two Card (cheat from the top of the deck) rather than use a control hand to keep things pretty level. It's not as good as playing against another person, but it is still practice, and practice always makes better.

[Butch]

22 hours ago, Pinocchio said:

I don't feel it is right for me to go up to a top player and ask them questions on such issues because a ) it took them effort to reach where they are and so why give someone a shortcut? b ) It seems cheap just to imitate their list/style and play with it.

Why not? Most people like to chat about the hobby and their thought about it. And if you ask the questions as in your starting post it doesn't sound to me like the whish of copying a playstyle.

And always ask your opponents about the game played, especially if you lost. Was there a major mistake you did, or had they made a special move to win, etc.

[bertmac]

There are a couple of things that will help.

Learning all the ins and outs of your own crew is very important.

Then Getting enough experience to know what your opponents crew can do so that you can anticipate what they will try and how and what to counter it with.

I try to play ahead I have a plan of the next move or two in my head knowing what I want specific cards for and which attacks/defences are worth expending cards for.

[Joel]

On 29/12/2016 at 10:50 AM, Pinocchio said:

Okay I know how to read!

But in all seriousness this is something I have been struggling with not just in Malifaux but in Wargaming in general for as long as I have been able to roll dice and flip cards.

I've been on the tournament scene in the UK for the past year and I notice a huge difference between your average tournament goer and a "Master" level tournament player, not just that they win but it is how they read the models and how they are able to compose lists that can adapt to nearly every strat and scheme pool the event throws at them.

I've always been the type that plays with a core group of model and expands my knowledge of new models by swapping them out now and then. I find I learn best from experience I.e. I see Izamu is great for slicing things up, but he would need some help from a belle to bring the target over, etc. But what i've seen from the top players (looking at Lord Henry!) who can look at a model and exploit many things that I never thought of  or clearly say whether a model is worth getting or not (I.e. finding Ronin amazing or building a Nicodem list where you can get between  5-7 corpse markers on turn 1, etc.).

So I guess the question I'm asking is how do you read into the potential of a model?

I don't feel it is right for me to go up to a top player and ask them questions on such issues because a ) it took them effort to reach where they are and so why give someone a shortcut? b ) It seems cheap just to imitate their list/style and play with it.

I've done rather well for my first year (88th best in the UK, aiming to be in the top 30 by the end of 2017), but I'm still trying to figure out what makes you go from 2 wins and a loss or 2 wins and 2 losses, to 3 wins or 3 wins and a loss, etc.

Go up to a top player and ask them ? 

Most are very approachable and all enjoy talking about Malifaux.  My own take on this, being a father and a teacher, is that the more skill the Malifaux community develops as a whole, the more fun games I'm going to have and the more tricks I'll discover.  Teaching feeds back - I'm still learning new tricks that others have used that I never spotted.  I'm always happy to chat faux and to pass on lessons if I can - but you'll need to add your own spin to them.

Now, imitation of a list is generally not a great idea.  Greg's Lilith build was often imitated but top players never lost to it unless another top player, usually Greg himself, was the pilot.  Those players that could take those lessons and then adapt are those that then break into the masters themselves.

if this is your goal one bit of advice I'd share is commitment.  Commit to a faction, or even to a single master and play, play, play!

"Reading" faux is more than just reading cards, it's getting a feel for the momentum of a game (either through logical math - Greg/Blutac, or through instinctive feel - me).  That feel let's you know when you can push the game. It's about looking at a board and seeing how to make the terrain work like it's another model on your crew, or about judging the correct activation order. 

Now, playing more games, as the others have said, is going to help.  I played 111 games of faux (including doubles and story, club and events) in 2016. That's the equivalent of over 2/week.  

When I'm not playing I'm thinking about faux, writing about faux, podcasting about faux, answering questions on private messages or DMs about faux or painting faux.  Yeah, I have a job/life too - honest - but I have space in my day, even if just in the shower, to think about faux at least a bit.

knowing the potential of a model often means putting it on the table though.  Depleted were one I missed until I tried it.  I'd dismissed a 4ss insignificant model with rubbish Df/Wp and rubbish damage track out of hand, citing better neverborn options for the cost.  Then I tried them and had to eat some humble pie.

a model's stats and damage track are never the whole picture, and many players fall into the trap of looking no further.  The best models are often those that unlock once you see what they can do after a few games.

Recently, iron skeeters have been one for me.  I tried them, didn't get them, dropped them from lists, then brought them back with a new idea in mind - now they are close to being a fixture for me.

hope that helps,

 

joel

 

addendum: 

there is not really such a thing as a useless model in Malifaux.  There are times when a model doesn't get into the game much due to positioning/movement.  This is down to the players.  There are times when a model will get out-flipped/killed without accomplishing much.  This is down to luck and hand-management by the players.  

Just don't try to make a fish climb a tree.

There are equally times when a model with accomplish feats beyond all expectations - these also are not to be considered the norm.  Not to be counted upon, not to be played for - But sometimes, just sometimes, those fish can climb - and judging those moments right is the real reading of Malifaux IMO

[Stargazer]

One of the key things I'd add is something that Bertmac touched upon. Learn your crew inside out and play with it over and over again. You'll do far better knowing say a 30ss core then swapping the last 20ss matchup dependent than you will changing your crew/faction every week.

This firstly removes the aspect of luck in play testing (you may try a model which seems rubbish in a game but in reality you just had horrible luck whenever you flipped for it.) as well as making you play faster. In tournaments this is key. The less time you spend thinking about what your models can do the more time you have to think about what you want them to do. This also removes some mental fatigue in the larger tournaments along with making you more likely to get 5 turns in which means you'll score max VP which is especially important if you're winning.

I generally will play only 1 or 2 masters at a time and have a core of models which never changes I only really have about 10-15ss which I change depending on strat and schemes.

As Joel said also don't be afraid to ask people we're all generally friendly and happy to have a chat. I personally always give the caveat that whatever I say is what works for me but might not work for someone else. You need to find your play style and what fits into that. Then just refine refine and refine.

Good luck!

Josh