solkan Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Reading over the Kickstarter page, there's mention of making unassembled versions of the models available for masochists hobbyists, direct from Wyrd later. Is that going to be an option for Kickstarter backers, maybe as a stretch goal? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnin' Coal Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 As an add on to Solkans' question - will the unassembled models be of a harder/non flexible plastic ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Caroland Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 No. It'll be available down the road, directly through Wyrd's webstore. Essentially we'll tell them to toss it all in a baggie and we'll let the masochist figure it out. It will absolutely not be any part of this kickstarter. The idea is to keep things easy and streamlined, not to add a gazillion options. While options are of course nice, the more there are, the more costs there are, the more chances for mistakes, the more time something takes, the more likely that I'll come out of this without hair, etc. It'll be the exact same product and blend, just unassembled. Won't even be a price break on it. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadaverousbirth Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Yes! This is amazing news. I'm on the fence for the KS because of funds (the mind is willing but the wallet is spungy and bruised) so hearing that I can get to assemble the same stuff later on is a huge boon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnin' Coal Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Excellent ....wanders off to polish masochist badge 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Caroland Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Yeah, not something we're going to be dragging in day one and going 'and here you go', but I will make efforts and try and accommodate as well where we can. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrapnelsmile Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 Just for the record, being pre-assembled actually may allow me to purchase another force. I dislike assembly so immensely, and I'm so horrible at it, that I often pay a local hobby expert / painter to do it for me. Ready out of the box, squad level and coupled with the rad Wyrd setting and style = auto pledge for me. Awesome they are throwing in un-assembled for others down the road, however. Good show all around. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Caroland Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 Honestly, we've been up front about this from day one - this game is for gamers, not necessarily hobbyist. That's not saying that I don't think you can't get some kick ass pieces out of these and do a wonderful job with them, but the idea is for folks to get them and into a game with minimal effort. Some folks love the idea of building, modding, sculpting, painting, etc - I'm one of them! Then others, could care two shakes, they just want it to get put together with minimal amount of cussing and trouble, and to get straight to the gaming. We'll accommodate where we can, just can't manage it all. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyris Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 I'm of two minds on how I feel about this, myself. On one hand; it's nice to not have to spend an hour+ putting everything together, I have enough of that with all the other war games I play. But on the other hand, I can absolutely see certain models being much, much easier to paint unassembled, or at least doing smaller sub-assemblies being gluing them all down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Caroland Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 Toss it in a fridge, freeze the model, bust down the glue, pry apart the model without damaging it (if you can, no promises there), clean up, assemble and paint as you see fit. There are ways, just gotta really want it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnin' Coal Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 3 hours ago, Nathan Caroland said: Toss it in a fridge, freeze the model, bust down the glue, pry apart the model without damaging it (if you can, no promises there), clean up, assemble and paint as you see fit. "Honey....what are all these grey things in the fridge ?....and where did all the food go ?"..... Just projecting ahead....preparing the ground so to speak 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker Barrows Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 20 hours ago, Shrapnelsmile said: Just for the record, being pre-assembled actually may allow me to purchase another force. I dislike assembly so immensely, and I'm so horrible at it, that I often pay a local hobby expert / painter to do it for me. Ready out of the box, squad level and coupled with the rad Wyrd setting and style = auto pledge for me. Awesome they are throwing in un-assembled for others down the road, however. Good show all around. I'm in the same boat. I've messed up or ruined a number of models trying to assemble them. I sympathize with hobbyists, but love the idea of no assembly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCL Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 If unassembled is an option, that must mean these models are not manufactured as one extrusion. Just curious, how can you ensure quality and how is it cost effective to have people assemble the models? Are you guys automating the assembly somehow? I had assumed earlier that you guys improved the manufacturing process such that you could mold as one piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Caroland Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 Army men come out as a single piece. There is no way in hell you could get these to come out as a single piece. They are assembled. If we had managed to figure out a way to make them come out, as they are, in a single piece, I would be making 'goooooooooold' on the toy market. Gold. Hasbro and Mattel would be tattooing their ownership across my backside quicker than you could blink. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 I consider pre-assembled a pretty big bonus. I mean, it's nice of Wyrd to have the option later. But personally I enjoy painting and playing, not so much gluing. And it will allow you to introduce new people to the game, sell them on a box, rip it open and play immediately. I can't tell you how many people I got to buy a Malifaux starter only to have them walk out the door with their box and never come back - and I have to think if that assembly barrier to entry was lowered and we could have played then and there, they would have stuck around. So I would expect this to mean more players/opponents/friends in the future. Big fan of this move. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 Same. I very much agree with what Steamforged Games calls the Christmas morning test. Ideally you want to reduce the amount of time from opening a brand new package to getting it to the table to the absolute minimum. I have the same issue that Justin mentioned. I'll do quick demos and get people very excited to try playing Malifaux, then they find out they have to actually assemble the models and I lose them. That isn't to undersell the Hobby aspect, but personally as long as the quality and dynamism of the sculpts continues as showcased in the Kickstarter I'd be perfectly Happy if Malifaux moved to preassembled. The fact that there is a direct option for non assembled seems to be just a massive bonus or thank you to those who are primarily interested in the modeling aspect. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whumbachumba Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 I look forward to being to play right out of the box. I have Malifaux and other wargames for building and painting. It will be nice that these are ready to go and just need paint. Any idea on the type of glue that will be used for the assembly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emberlost Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 I like the idea of pre-assembled models, especially given the level of detail Wyrd likes to put into their models. I've got two models in my Malifaux collection that are missing bits due to accidents during assembly, so skipping that step is a big plus. My hands aren't as steady as they once were, so gluing tiny bits together is really frustrating. Plus, it helps get people into the hobby a bit quicker. Being able to pull your faction off the shelf and play as soon as you open the box, skipping the sometimes laborious process of assembling all your models... Recently I saw a first-time 40k player open his new army box, look at all the sprues inside, and say "F*ck putting all that together." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emberlost Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 I like the idea of pre-assembled models, especially given the level of detail Wyrd likes to put into their models. I've got two models in my Malifaux collection that are missing bits due to accidents during assembly, so skipping that step is a big plus. My hands aren't as steady as they once were, so gluing tiny bits together is really frustrating. Plus, it helps get people into the hobby a bit quicker. Being able to pull your faction off the shelf and play as soon as you open the box, skipping the sometimes laborious process of assembling all your models... Recently I saw a first-time 40k player open his new army box, look at all the sprues inside, and say "F*ck putting all that together." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akai Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 I like that Wyrd is planning to sell it as pre-assembled and unassembled products. If I just want one unit only, preassemble is ready to go. When I want to have more than one copy of that unit, purchasing the unassemble version gives more leeway for conversion to make each unit slightly different. I wonder how "modular" these models are. Some of them look very dynamic in pose. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doombladez Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 On 12/19/2016 at 3:36 PM, Nathan Caroland said: Honestly, we've been up front about this from day one - this game is for gamers, not necessarily hobbyist. That's not saying that I don't think you can't get some kick ass pieces out of these and do a wonderful job with them, but the idea is for folks to get them and into a game with minimal effort. Some folks love the idea of building, modding, sculpting, painting, etc - I'm one of them! Then others, could care two shakes, they just want it to get put together with minimal amount of cussing and trouble, and to get straight to the gaming. We'll accommodate where we can, just can't manage it all. This is me. I hate assembly and the whole painting/primering/basing nonsense. I love seeing the results of people who are skilled at it, but for me it's just a huge barrier to playing several games I love. I really appreciate that TOS is going to eliminate one headache for me, I probably wouldn't have become a backer otherwise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Git Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 For games like Malifaux where it's incredibly difficult to convert as there is a very set pose and the pieces can only go one way, I think pre-assembled is better. For warhammer, where all of the pieces are designed to be inter-changable, then not so much... Just my 2script 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDAntoine Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 I too do not mind pre assembly at all. By large because this way games quickly lead to fun battles, without proxies and without delay in even base coating models. The Other Side is the next step in miniature gaming and I feel Wyrd takes the time to make something very good, while they easily could have walked the standard way. For Malifaux I dont mind assembly and adding a lot of character, often your crews wont pass a dozen orso models. For Warmachine and Warhammer Ive always played partially unpainted stuff because of assembly or the fear of damaging white metal anyway. The Other Side offers me to play and paint instantly, in addition I really like the system and creation process cards like Assets add. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHood Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 I think for a game like Guild Ball pre-assembled minis isnt a bad idea it's essentially a board game really. This however I think should still be aimed at the hobbyist so the fact the models come pre-assembled I'm sure it's nice for some people but I bet a larger proportion of tabletop fans would have preferred unassembled. I do wonder if they've overestimated the crowd who hate putting miniatures together yet love tabletop wargaming. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDAntoine Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 25 minutes ago, RedHood said: I think for a game like Guild Ball pre-assembled minis isnt a bad idea it's essentially a board game really. This however I think should still be aimed at the hobbyist so the fact the models come pre-assembled I'm sure it's nice for some people but I bet a larger proportion of tabletop fans would have preferred unassembled. I do wonder if they've overestimated the crowd who hate putting miniatures together yet love tabletop wargaming. Not to critique the crowd but in general the prime reason as to why players divert from army game to skirmish game is because of the time involved. At several Warmachine tournaments I see nearly unpainted armies. Even back when I played Warhammer fully painted armies where not extremely common. As the hobby (in general) grows more expensive and the overal free time people have decreases I think this move was a very smart one for the years to come. Most players as said can assemble/paint two dozen orso models, it's more fun also if those models look differently. Much more than that and I feel the fun part is drastically decreased. Prime reason for me to like Malifaux had to do with the character of the models and the quantity required to paint. Nowadays this is how I judge my miniature games. It's also not a coincidence that GW went from full scale army (WFB) to AoS 'skirmish'. It's also not a coincidence that PP wnt from 'skirmish' to Robot and Monster fiesta. I cannot prove it with marketing research but I believe the current trend for new players is to buy into stuff that doesn't cost a lot of time to paint and play. TOS is played on a 50 point level and while it technically could have been much more I do believe that 30-45 models is the feasable maximum that players really still enjoy to paint. Now that assembly has been removed from the hobby time involved doing an army like that should not technically cost more than a month, assuming you are capable of painting up a mini a night. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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