Thoughts on Brewie and Yan Lo - Synergies!

[InvokeChaos]

Greetings, programs!

Basically I feel that Yan Lo and Brewmaster are probably on the lower end of played masters for us, simply because they are pretty complex to get consistent results with. So I've been looking at some synergies for them. I'd like to get other peoples' feedback on what they are thinking of with Wave 4. These two popped up for me as potentially really good:

First, we have Yan Lo, Chiaki and the Terracotta. Chiaki passes any condition she has to another ancestor model... so you pop Terracotta's condition on her, then pass it to Yan Lo. One of my concerns, despite how difficult he is to kill, has always been dropping him too far up to secure his slingshot kill.  I feel this really helps address that. With the Goryo shenanigans, you can easily have 2 chi start of 1st turn for upgrades. Anyone gets too cheeky with placement, you just slingshot Yan Lo up, drag it into your killbox, and don't worry because not only does Yan have his normal defenses, but he also has a one-time damage soak (where you choose what to soak). Suddenly the threat of a red joker isn't that bad.

Second, Yokai... So let's say I have a yokai fly up the board, and then I give it poison with Brewmaster, to enable his push. When EoT hits, he gets two places: one for flicker reducing and one for the poison ticking. This makes the model incredibly fast, while giving brewie a solid target for his movement shenanigans. Contrary to the bubble concept (like one of my earlier list postings) I've really been looking at a mobile spread out Brewie list, where I take advantage of his utility abilities to put on some hurt. I really like the idea of going the samurai, terracotta, misdirection route here, to aid in his surivability with Yokai as scheme runners and Yasunori as your beater. You can even obey the samurai for supporting fire if needed.

What cool stuff do you guys have for these two fine Masters?

[Eclipse]

With Yan Lo I always get too confident or greedy on Turn 1/2 and he gets killed just like that. This usually stems from the fact that I have only 1 Chi and only fter discarding a card - so I can't take his 2ss Ascendant upgrade (damage prevention after incorporeal is way easier). This can be addressed with the Goryo - make them both pop a Seishin for 1 AP and 2 Wd, then heal them up with something like... Sun Quiang maybe, who will push and interact if you let him, then heal both Goryo. You have two extra activations for cheap. Yan Lo activates and kills the two Seishin for two Chi (maybe discarding for one more?) and attaches Spirit Ascendant. Now he is more survivable. How to push this even further? Well, take Sensei Yu and start him with another upgrade for 1ss to fit more stuff. Take the Kamaitachi and a Terracotta Warrior for the upgrade-swap trick. Swap Yu's upgrade to Wandering River Style (pushing him 2" as well, I believe, etc.) and give Yan Lo Fast. Now he can (1) kill Seishin, (1) kill Seishin, (0) attach Spirit Ascendant, (2) Fury of the Yomi for 1 AP on both Goryo and if you happen to have another Spirit, that's a bonus. Really going further in making him what I wanted to achieve, a battlefield commander like Lucius.
You mentioned the trick with the Terracotta-Samurai-Misdirection already, so I won't be touching this point. I think Brewmaster and Shenlong (Peasants) would be able to the most out of a Yokai-Akaname pairing besides Asami - Sensei Yu with Swill+1/2 goes (0) for Poison+2 and up to 6" push on a Yokai/Akaname/Conflux of Inebriating Emissary, then beating with glorious drunken flips on the enemy, dispensing some conditions and saying "LOL!" to defense triggers. Add a stray Ama no Zako and/or Whiskey Golem and you have a merry PARTY! underway. With Yan Lo I always get too confident or greedy on Turn 1/2 and he gets killed just like that. This usually stems from the fact that I have only 1 Chi and only fter discarding a card - so I can't take his 2ss Ascendant upgrade (damage prevention after incorporeal is way easier). This can be addressed with the Goryo - make them both pop a Seishin for 1 AP and 2 Wd, then heal them up with something like... Sun Quiang maybe, who will push and interact if you let him, then heal both Goryo. You have two extra activations for cheap. Yan Lo activates and kills the two Seishin for two Chi (maybe discarding for one more?) and attaches Spirit Ascendant. Now he is more survivable. How to push this even further? Well, take Sensei Yu and start him with another upgrade for 1ss to fit more stuff. Take the Kamaitachi and a Terracotta Warrior for the upgrade-swap trick. Swap Yu's upgrade to Wandering River Style (pushing him 2" as well, I believe, etc.) and give Yan Lo Fast. Now he can (1) kill Seishin, (1) kill Seishin, (0) attach Spirit Ascendant, (2) Fury of the Yomi for 1 AP on both Goryo and if you happen to have another Spirit, that's a bonus. Really going further in making him what I wanted to achieve, a battlefield commander like Lucius.
You mentioned the trick with the Terracotta-Samurai-Misdirection already, so I won't be touching this point. I think Brewmaster and Shenlong (Peasants) would be able to the most out of a Yokai-Akaname pairing besides Asami - Sensei Yu with Swill+1/2 goes (0) for Poison+2 and up to 6" push on a Yokai/Akaname/Conflux of Inebriating Emissary, then beating with glorious drunken flips on the enemy, dispensing some conditions and saying "LOL!" to defense triggers. Add a stray Ama no Zako and/or Whiskey Golem and you have a merry PARTY! underway.

[Akodo Harid]

My brother plays this very combination of masters (and is selling his McCabe stuff on ebay), so I'm interested in this thread. But how do you feel about the Wastrel trick for Yan Lo? My brother hires one every game for turn one kills, then has the Daimyo summon an Ashigaru in it's place. Is there a more efficient way to get the three chi he needs for Impossible and Incorporeal? Also, how useful is Huanpo Assault if you don't have the emissary?

[Eclipse]

I don't have the Emissary, so for now I can't say anything about playing with it from experience, only theoretical ideas.
As for the Wastrel trick, why not simply hit Izamu, Fuhatsu or the Freikorps Strongarm, even a Samurai with their Armor+2, then heal the victim back up to full? Unless you insist on killing your model and getting it back up as something else, which I find too cumbersome.

[BigHammer]

Yan Lo is still one of my first picks in Thunders for several strategies. I usually bring him, Chiaki and the Emissary and have a 4 AP Yan Lo when I need it. A Terracotta Warrior (or two) and Anna Lovelace also make it in for added protection and control (and the Warrior allows me to add extra Fast on the Emissary by doing its upgrade switching). Anna with Recalled Training and Fast can be devastating at range, and it's an easy way to summon a bunch of chaff to die for more Chi, and her ranged attack is a cast, so can benefit from Chi given to her by the Soul Porter.

I like to bring Sun Quiang as well, so that I have models that are capable of moving enemy models around, stopping them from using their own movement tricks or, in a pinch, giving them the Peon characteristic so they don't count for a lot of schemes/strategies (notably Extraction/Turf War and Guard the Stash).

Sun Quiang is a bit of an oddity as well; he functions similarly to a clockwork trap in that you can Lightning Dance an enemy model (that doesn't have attack values of 7+) into him and cause a duel when they activate that gives them slow if they fail, and he's proficient at making things not walk away from him. With the Terracotta Warriors to protect his wound pool, he's not actually a terrible choice for this role, and Anna can cast into this engagement without randomising to kill whatever you leave there.

My overall plan with Yan is always to get Hunpo Assault as soon as I can, though. Since the Emissary/Chiaki combo can give him 4AP without flipping a single card, doing a double Hunpo Assault in a turn is absolutely devastating for an unprepared or bunched-up opponent, especially with Brutal Khakharra.

[scarlett fever]

I'm pretty useless with Yan Lo and Brewy so interested in this thread.

I used Yan Lo for the first time in ages the other day, game didn't finish and it looked likely a loss to me. But the model of the day seemed to be the Obisidian Oni. Not only did he provide excessive scrap markers for Toshiro but with three Ancestors with upgrades in the crew (Emissary, Chiaki, Toshiro) there were plenty of chances to heal.

[Somnicide]

I'm also interested as I just got Asami as my first Ten Thunders master and am eyeing those two since I have Rezzers and Gremlins as my 2 main factions.

[Nukemouse]

Well Yan Lo likes his ancestors and Toshiro handing out fast to a Jorugumo seems pretty spooky. Also since he can bring ancestors back from the grave you can afford to be quite risky with them, so putting death contract on Izamu or Yin could be pretty smart, further dissuading your opponents from attempting to kill them so they can do their jobs.

[Inquisitor Wall]

II really enjoy running Tannen with brewmaster. Brewmaster simply binges at a weak model as the first activation and dumps several cards from the opponents hand which will then make it tough to cheat later in the turn due to the discarding effect of Tannen. I have also found the emissary to be a great addition to Brewmaster as the paralysis can be huge as well as the double poison damamge. 

[InvokeChaos]

Been out due to medical issues, but finally able to respond so let's get to it! Yan Lo stuff first!

On 12/9/2016 at 6:42 AM, Eclipse said:

With Yan Lo I always get too confident or greedy on Turn 1/2 and he gets killed just like that. This usually stems from the fact that I have only 1 Chi and only fter discarding a card - so I can't take his 2ss Ascendant upgrade (damage prevention after incorporeal is way easier). This can be addressed with the Goryo - make them both pop a Seishin for 1 AP and 2 Wd, then heal them up with something like... Sun Quiang maybe, who will push and interact if you let him, then heal both Goryo. You have two extra activations for cheap. Yan Lo activates and kills the two Seishin for two Chi (maybe discarding for one more?) and attaches Spirit Ascendant. Now he is more survivable. How to push this even further? Well, take Sensei Yu and start him with another upgrade for 1ss to fit more stuff. Take the Kamaitachi and a Terracotta Warrior for the upgrade-swap trick. Swap Yu's upgrade to Wandering River Style (pushing him 2" as well, I believe, etc.) and give Yan Lo Fast. Now he can (1) kill Seishin, (1) kill Seishin, (0) attach Spirit Ascendant, (2) Fury of the Yomi for 1 AP on both Goryo and if you happen to have another Spirit, that's a bonus. Really going further in making him what I wanted to achieve, a battlefield commander like Lucius.
 

I have been seriously looking at this very strategy. My concern at the moment is that the goryo are 14pts, yu is 11pts, terracotta is 5pts and Sun is 8pts. That's 38 pts with no ancestors on the table. Arguably your goryo are the beaters, but 2/4/5 is kind of shifty, even if you can pass out adversary. I'm thinking the sweet spot will be one goryo freeing up 19 pts for upgrades and other things. This lets me at least take an emissary, and I think the emissary is a must have with Yan which addresses my second quote:

 

On 12/9/2016 at 10:37 AM, Akodo Harid said:

My brother plays this very combination of masters (and is selling his McCabe stuff on ebay), so I'm interested in this thread. But how do you feel about the Wastrel trick for Yan Lo? My brother hires one every game for turn one kills, then has the Daimyo summon an Ashigaru in it's place. Is there a more efficient way to get the three chi he needs for Impossible and Incorporeal? Also, how useful is Huanpo Assault if you don't have the emissary?

Hunpo Assault is fantastic in general, but it's not something to build around in my opinion. However... if you are going to bring a brutal khakkara upgrade (or swap into it with terracotta as needed), then you have to have the Emissary here I think. My indicator here is Ama No Zako, who is a fantastic model that probably doesn't see enough play. Why? Ml5, just like Yan Lo's melee abilities. It throws people off because you really can't use them against masters/henchman. You have to minion hunt. And for Yan Lo, I don't want to have to say "no, can't reliably hit here so let's just do this instead." If I want to dive in and eviscerate, let's do this! 

On another point, the Emissary getting fast every time you do the upgrade dance is really really good. Especially with him being able to pass out fast. What this effectively does is remove the negative to his fast action. It was already a good trade in offering up a basically a walk and an AP to another heavy model. But that sometimes left you with the choice of do I push and fast, or do I walk to stay relevant? With a great way to focus, a solid ranged Ca and a good damage track, as well as some great auras... you really want that emissary I think. I would even consider him over sensei yu for yan lo, just for the ancestor synergy. 

As to the Wastrel trick... it's cute. But I have a post here that explains why I don't really use it in detail, so I won't rehash here. The numbers don't work for me, simply put. Especially now that for 3pts more, I don't have to kill the model, and can get 2 chi and a much lower card investment with the goryo/seishin trick. And goryo is definitely a solid model for Yan Lo, whereas the Wastrel is... ok. Even ashigaru are just ok. I actually like hiring mine in (what!?!).

Also, remember that you can't attach more than one upgrade a turn, so you're looking to get that 2 chi turn one for incorporeal, than you can be ok with 1 chi for impossible to wound after. It's barebones for his casts, sure, but stuff will die. You will get chi. Unless you are running a crazy synergy armor combo where you need like 3-4 chi banked for appropriate buffing, I don't feel it's necessary. And if that's the route you want to go, just take two terracottas, two goryo and sun quiang... you get three chi a turn for a card, some flips and the ability to walk up sun quiang. It's pretty cool actually.

On 12/9/2016 at 11:14 AM, BigHammer said:

Yan Lo is still one of my first picks in Thunders for several strategies. I usually bring him, Chiaki and the Emissary and have a 4 AP Yan Lo when I need it. A Terracotta Warrior (or two) and Anna Lovelace also make it in for added protection and control (and the Warrior allows me to add extra Fast on the Emissary by doing its upgrade switching). Anna with Recalled Training and Fast can be devastating at range, and it's an easy way to summon a bunch of chaff to die for more Chi, and her ranged attack is a cast, so can benefit from Chi given to her by the Soul Porter.

I like to bring Sun Quiang as well, so that I have models that are capable of moving enemy models around, stopping them from using their own movement tricks or, in a pinch, giving them the Peon characteristic so they don't count for a lot of schemes/strategies (notably Extraction/Turf War and Guard the Stash).

Sun Quiang is a bit of an oddity as well; he functions similarly to a clockwork trap in that you can Lightning Dance an enemy model (that doesn't have attack values of 7+) into him and cause a duel when they activate that gives them slow if they fail, and he's proficient at making things not walk away from him. With the Terracotta Warriors to protect his wound pool, he's not actually a terrible choice for this role, and Anna can cast into this engagement without randomising to kill whatever you leave there.

My overall plan with Yan is always to get Hunpo Assault as soon as I can, though. Since the Emissary/Chiaki combo can give him 4AP without flipping a single card, doing a double Hunpo Assault in a turn is absolutely devastating for an unprepared or bunched-up opponent, especially with Brutal Khakharra.

Sun Quiang is definitely a strangely tarpit-like unit, considering he has no real defensive traits.

I really like the idea of using Anna, for a couple of reasons. Lightning Dance being one of them. If you can no longer push or place away... that's pretty solid. Secondly, as you said, if you can get that moderate/severe flip, and get some zombies going... that's fantastic for Yan Lo, as he can use them as chi fuel and you can use it as activation control. Plus if you have Goryo out, they are great chaff to keep your opponent honest. Nothing like having to kill a mindless zombie but if you do, it gives the goryo fast!

I've toyed around with running Bettari and Anna so that you have this lightning dance bubble of none for you. You can't declare triggers, and you can't push or place out of it. And Bettari can keep you from walking anywhere but towards her, so you literally have this vortex where they cannot escape. Period. It's just a little points heavy, especially once you throw in say an Izamu as a beater... So for now it's in theoryfaux-land.

Chiaki is a powerhouse with Yan Lo. Not only can she unslow and heal, she can pass out slow and with Terracotta, access to chi and the emissary, you can pass up to 3 conditions to Yan Lo a turn that totally buffs him out! I hadn't really considered doing double hunpo, I may have to look into that!

[InvokeChaos]

Brewie!!

On 12/9/2016 at 6:42 AM, Eclipse said:

You mentioned the trick with the Terracotta-Samurai-Misdirection already, so I won't be touching this point. I think Brewmaster and Shenlong (Peasants) would be able to the most out of a Yokai-Akaname pairing besides Asami - Sensei Yu with Swill+1/2 goes (0) for Poison+2 and up to 6" push on a Yokai/Akaname/Conflux of Inebriating Emissary, then beating with glorious drunken flips on the enemy, dispensing some conditions and saying "LOL!" to defense triggers. Add a stray Ama no Zako and/or Whiskey Golem and you have a merry PARTY! underway. 

You know I hadn't thought of hurling in Sensei Yu like that. With Drunken Kung Fu he is quite respectable and the push allows him to get into combat without wasting AP to walk... Nice idea! Plus Brewie could obey Sensei Yu to walk... more movement!

I have been really trying to figure out a way to give Sensei Yu focused more easily, so that I can use it to give brewie fast. 4 cards out of your opponent's hand seems legit. 

On 12/10/2016 at 10:51 AM, Inquisitor Wall said:

II really enjoy running Tannen with brewmaster. Brewmaster simply binges at a weak model as the first activation and dumps several cards from the opponents hand which will then make it tough to cheat later in the turn due to the discarding effect of Tannen. I have also found the emissary to be a great addition to Brewmaster as the paralysis can be huge as well as the double poison damamge. 

Solid idea with Tannen, hadn't thought of that!

New concepts on brewie:

So I played with Yasunori a lot recently, and I have to say that thing is pretty awesome.  But what's even more awesome is... his two extra attack triggers are once per activation, not once per turn. So I really have been thinking that Yasunori needs to be with Brewie. Not only can you put your opponent's models on negative flips with swill, but you can then obey Yasunori for 3 attacks with proper suits, granting our favorite almost-rider 7 attacks potentially from 3AP (his activation plus 1AP of brewmaster). Throw a sensei yu in the mix, and you can fast yasu as well... cuz reasons.

I normally really like the emissary, but I think my lists in general lack some hitting power, and yasunori fits that bill quite nicely. I also think that the kamaitachi/terracotta trick is a good inclusion, despite being able to use running tab and swap it for misdirection. I like wesley, but that extra card/push and the walk from the kamaitachi are really crucial I think to brewie. 

 

[Nikodemus]

@InvokeChaos @Eclipse

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Swill-Yu is such a good idea.

Quote

Drunken Kung Fu: If this model has the Poison Condition, during its Activation it treats all of its + modifiers as if they were - and all of its - modifiers as if they were +.

Do that early in the turn and Yu'll get focused down for sure. I guess you could have Wesley/Malifaux child activate 2nd last to swill Yu and have Yu beat stuff as your final activation, but I'm not a fan of having such forced activation order.

Besides, for 11ss I'm not sure how thrilled I should be for ml 6 1'' 2/3/4 with 'after succeeding' slow. Slow is nice but... You would also be wasting his built-in focus+1 trigger since you don't want to debuff yourself with focus.

I'd like fermented Yu to work but I'm doubtful.

Edit: forgot he ignores df triggers. I guess that's a solid 11ss IF I can get it to melee and have it stay alive. Problem with Drunken Kung Fu only applying during Yu's activation still applies. Swill isn't the same buff for him as it would be on moon shinobi.

[Eclipse]

Naturally, if you are playing Brewmaster, you should be prepared to explore unpopular grounds and have tight control on AP/card/activation control. It is no loss to explore all options available and to find either the objectively best, or at least the personally most suitable. For completion's sake I threw the 'Drunken Yu' out there - if other people get this variable to work depends on them

[Nikodemus]

I'm sure I'll give it a shot if/when I get Brewmaster. But if Drunken Kung Fu was constant and not just during your own activation I might consider it more than just a funny gimmick.

[InvokeChaos]

I don't put swill on yu (just read back thru and I think I just ignored that part). I use it to make the more common single and double negatives on damage, positives instead. I still like the idea of getting more use out of our favorite laughing man.

Don't forget you can also pass out poison which enables brewie more, especially with his paralyze upgrade. Or pop burning on for an obsidian oni to ignite.  There's a lot of options.

Not saying an 11pt Yu is the answer. But with terracotta and the wonder weasel, you can start with wandering upgrade then move to low or fermented as needed for midgame.

 

 

[Nikodemus]

Terracotta could make that more viable indeed. I mostly work with wave 1 & 2 stuff, though I love my wandering river monk and have been eyeing at Jorogumo lately. Gonna have to check those chaps when they hit retail.

[Inquisitor Wall]

Taking Yu to give yasunori fast is a pretty big investment.  I would rather do that with the emissary.  Sure it doesn't gain the push, but is less rescue intensive and the yasunori has a good range to begin with.

[InvokeChaos]

7 hours ago, Inquisitor Wall said:

Taking Yu to give yasunori fast is a pretty big investment.  I would rather do that with the emissary.  Sure it doesn't gain the push, but is less rescue intensive and the yasunori has a good range to begin with.

two things:

emissary pushes it 4" instead of 5", so yes you still do. Just not two pushes. 

And I agree. Yu for yasunori is way too much investment. But emissary can't fast masters, whereas Yu can. I wouldn't bring yu to just fast yasunori.

As a matter of fact yasunori doesn't need fast. Maybe a push, but he threatens plenty on his own. From deployment he has a 12" threat already. That's centerline in standard deploy. 

But Yu brings a potential heal/condition removal (with terracotta) and synergizes very well with brewmaster.

That being said my current brewie list keeps him on the shelf. For now. But that's because I wanted to give Ama no Zako a try with him. I have an extra cache to be able to swap her with an upgrade out for Yu with his upgrade. Yu makes better use of terracotta/weasel for sure. 

[Inquisitor Wall]

I really want to try brewmaster with terracota warrior and weasel, but also glad to get wesley with out a 2 stone upgrade slot as well. 

[InvokeChaos]

Tried out this list over the holidays:

Brewmaster
-Running Tab
-Binge

Kamaitachi

Ama No Zako
-Recalled Training

Yasunori
-Equality

Samurai
-Favor of Earth

Yokai

Terracotta Warrior

I brought running tab just purely to swap and help facilitate wonder weasel.  I ended up switching out binge too because brewie became a Swillbot. Which by the way is DISGUSTING with Ama and Yasu. Though my opponent tied up my Yasu pretty well.

Misdirection with Samurai is fantastic and the Terracotta made a great late game scheme runner with wonder weasel pitching to push him. Unhindered is a treat.

Was a great game, won and thoroughly enjoyed brewie's shenanigans. Even locking down just his emissary with Swill and Drinking Party was fantastic. I think Ama can be swapped out, she was great, but I think I could have used maybe another Yokai, or maybe another ranged piece, like a sniper or maybe even a performer.

[Bumpasses]

On 12/19/2016 at 7:49 AM, InvokeChaos said:

Also, remember that you can't attach more than one upgrade a turn, so you're looking to get that 2 chi turn one for incorporeal, than you can be ok with 1 chi for impossible to wound after. It's barebones for his casts, sure, but stuff will die. You will get chi. Unless you are running a crazy synergy armor combo where you need like 3-4 chi banked for appropriate buffing, I don't feel it's necessary. And if that's the route you want to go, just take two terracottas, two goryo and sun quiang... you get three chi a turn for a card, some flips and the ability to walk up sun quiang. It's pretty cool actually.

can u splains 3 chi a turn pleeeze

[InvokeChaos]

The goryo each can pop out a seishin which yan lo can target and kill to gain a chi do to his trigger. Add in your start of turn discard and you have three chi. 

Its kind of like wastrel chi combo but less card intensive. 

Though I actually don't remember if he one shots seishin on min dam now that I think about it so still might not be efficient enough to consider. Dont have cards handy to check. 

[BigHammer]

He does. They have 2 wounds. It's an interesting thought, though I prefer to use his AP to attack enemies; the Seishin can tie up an expensive enemy model and give Yan Lo Chi when they die to enemy AP.

[InvokeChaos]

I agree, I just feel if you're going to try the chi 3 turn 1 combo... might as well do it with as few resources as possible. And two goryo isn't a bad run for Yan Lo in my opinion. Especially being able to give them Armor +2.  They are also a fairly good counter to raspy and sonnia from seishin being able to pop no blasts or aura's for a turn. And being able to pop one to two out essentially for free a turn is not to be sniffed at, even for that. Sure you still have the main attack to deal with, but it's much easier to mitigate in general.

I've been considering running Sue with Yan Lo for the extra card draw (synergy in that Yan can heal him too), the anti-Ca aura, his powerful gun and his synergy with Sun Quiang, another potential look for me.

I've had a list shaping up to be something along the lines of Goryo x2, terracotta, wonder weasel, sun quiang, sue and stuff... Once I get back from abroad, I'll give it a go and report my results

 

[MagicGis]

Sorry  for being ignorant... but what makes the misdirection/ terracotta combo better with a samurai than any other model or for example an illuminated...?