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Sergrum

Swine Curse + Old Major Rile em' Up

Question

If a Swine-Cursed switches forms at at beginning of activation does it still benefit from Old Major's Rile em' Up?

 

"Rile 'em Up: Other friendly Pigs which begin their Activation within A(4) gain + to Attack and damage flips which are generated by Attack Actions resulting from the Charge Action for the duration of the Activation."

 

Argument for yes is - It satisfies both conditions when it's actually making the attacks. It is-

- A friendly Pig

- Began its activation withing 4"

 

There is nothing about it gaining a condition when it activates just the 2 requirements  when charge attacks happen. 

 

EDIT: I am saying if you switch from Gremlin to Pig you get the + as you satisfy the 2 conditions at the time of the attacks.

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I'm going to say yes, if it starts the activation as a pig and shifts to gremlin or stays pig, because Old Major's ability specifies the beginning on their activation.  If it starts as a gremlin and goes to pig, then no, because it was a gremlin at the start of its activation.

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1 hour ago, Sergrum said:

If a Swine-Cursed switches forms at at beginning of activation does it still benefit from Old Major's Rile em' Up?

 

"Rile 'em Up: Other friendly Pigs which begin their Activation within A(4) gain + to Attack and damage flips which are generated by Attack Actions resulting from the Charge Action for the duration of the Activation."

 

Argument for yes is - It satisfies both conditions when it's actually making the attacks. It is-

- A friendly Pig

- Began its activation withing 4"

 

There is nothing about it gaining a condition when it activates just the 2 requirements  when charge attacks happen. 

 

EDIT: I am saying if you switch from Gremlin to Pig you get the + as you satisfy the 2 conditions at the time of the attacks.

You don't check to see whether the Ability applied to the model at the time of the attacks.  You resolve the Ability when the model Activates, in the first step of the Activation, along all of the other "at the start of the model's Activation" effects.

The model activates as a Gremlin, you resolve start of activation effects and the ability doesn't apply, so the model gains nothing.

If the Swine Curst models switched between forms using an 'at the start of the activation' ability, then they could resolve that ability first and then qualify for Rile 'em Up.  The Take Actions step of the Activation is too late to switch Characteristics and retroactively qualify for the effect.

Rile 'em Up doesn't apply a Condition to the model, but you still have to resolve it when it specifies.  The effect of resolving the ability is that the model gains the specified effect for the specified duration, but it has to meet the specified requirement when you resolve it.

 

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Francisco's el mayor and papa loco's old this apply an effect that is not a condition. 

 

Old major's ability is always active but have stipulations for When you check it against other models. Friendly pigs who BEGIN their activation check to apply it. The beginning of an activation is a specifically defined step where you check for this kind of stuff.

It doesn't say "friendly pigs who BEGAN their activation..." so we know from english grammar that we don't go back and check for it after the start of activation step. This is not ambiguous to me.

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I don't know, I think it really can be read either way. Just try to be consistent with the way that you play it. This should definitely be FAQ'd. If there was a condition applied then it would be a lot easier. 

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On 11/27/2016 at 10:29 AM, solkan said:

You don't check to see whether the Ability applied to the model at the time of the attacks.  You resolve the Ability when the model Activates, in the first step of the Activation, along all of the other "at the start of the model's Activation" effects.

The model activates as a Gremlin, you resolve start of activation effects and the ability doesn't apply, so the model gains nothing.

If the Swine Curst models switched between forms using an 'at the start of the activation' ability, then they could resolve that ability first and then qualify for Rile 'em Up.  The Take Actions step of the Activation is too late to switch Characteristics and retroactively qualify for the effect.

Rile 'em Up doesn't apply a Condition to the model, but you still have to resolve it when it specifies.  The effect of resolving the ability is that the model gains the specified effect for the specified duration, but it has to meet the specified requirement when you resolve it.

 

I don't agree with you. When you say that the ability is applied at the beginning of the activation rather than the attack where are you getting that information? I don't know of any other rules that would make that precedent. I believe that you can read it either way. 

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