How is the Black Friday Guild Model not an Alt Captain Dashel?

[The Colour Red]

The model is female, Holding an axe and an open hand. Also armed with a peace bringer. Just like he does... Not like the swords the guard sergeants have...

[Cinnamon Bear]

I know, it's disappointing. I don't really have any interest in the Lucius box outside Dashel and was hoping I could pick up an alt to use with Riflemen. And Guild Sergeants aren't exactly the most beloved model rules-wise in the Guild range  

[solkan]

To be honest, I picked up an old metal Lucius box because it was on clearance, and I'm still confused whether the old metal model is a guild sergeant or Dashel in this edition.  

[Jam Warrior]

I'm assuming she's a bit too small to match up to the ogre like proportions of Dashel.  That and the Guild Sergeant actually has an attack using an axe unlike Dashel who apparently just carries his meat cleaver around for show.  Then again the proper Guild Sergeant figures aren't modelled with an axe!

It's all a bit of a mess.

[Cadaverousbirth]

Johanna isn't exactly as big as Johan is either though. The muscular woman archetype has yet to be explored by Wyrd. 

I wish she was Dashel too, but getting her let's me not buy the Sergeants box on its own when I was planning on buying Lucius eventually anyways. It's a small thing compared to the Mounted guard, so I'll let it slide. 

[Hagisman]

Honestly the Guardsmen range of models is pretty lackluster as far as actual humna Guard models. The only ones that aren't mediocre at best is the Guild Austringers and maybe the Wardens.

If the alt model was Dashel I'd still not ever field it. Which sucks because I'm always trying to get Lucius gunline to work.
 

 

 

[Absolution Black]

I actually like all the guardsman sculpts.

Weird me.

[admiralvorkraft]

I'm not into the "dynamic" riflemen or the Guild Guard themselves - I wish they had a more regimented look to them - but I love the standing Rifleman, the Austringers, Pathfinder, Wardens, Dashel (I'm a bit bitter that he doesn't have the ax in his rules), and Queeg is pretty nice. So I'll take that spread.

[hofzinser]

I wish they would put out more variants of Guild Guard.  I'd like two to bring in the list and have 2 more to summon via Daschel.

 

[ArcticPangolin]

7 hours ago, hofzinser said:

I wish they would put out more variants of Guild Guard.  I'd like two to bring in the list and have 2 more to summon via Daschel.

 

Yeah, I'm glad I picked up the metal Lucius box and metal Guards, a real shame that the plastic Guards don't gel style- or size-wise.

[Hagisman]

17 hours ago, Absolution Black said:

I actually like all the guardsman sculpts.

Weird me.

I actually really like the sculpts as well. The rules?... they could be a lot better. For starters Guild Guard are supposed to be cheap cannon fodder as per the lore, but they cost too much in comparison with other models. I'd argue that two guild guard are lesser than a Guardian, simple fact that a Guardian can actually hit something. Whereas Guild Guard get out paced by Guild Hounds in every respect. Guild Hounds being 1ss less per model than Guild Guards.

[JDAntoine]

18 minutes ago, Hagisman said:

I actually really like the sculpts as well. The rules?... they could be a lot better. For starters Guild Guard are supposed to be cheap cannon fodder as per the lore, but they cost too much in comparison with other models. I'd argue that two guild guard are lesser than a Guardian, simple fact that a Guardian can actually hit something. Whereas Guild Guard get out paced by Guild Hounds in every respect. Guild Hounds being 1ss less per model than Guild Guards.

I totally agree. However it does leave space for summoning them, which I think is a path we'll go deeper into. Feels cool aswell.

The returning trend of Guardsman is that they work in pairs but as you said certainly are costed 'as usual'. A bit like the Gamin of the Arcanists?

[Hagisman]

33 minutes ago, JDAntoine said:

The returning trend of Guardsman is that they work in pairs but as you said certainly are costed 'as usual'. A bit like the Gamin of the Arcanists?

The problem with costing pair models as one model is that it makes purchasing a single model a trap. So two Guild Guard for 8ss is about average, but one Guild Guard for 4ss is over costed.

Guild Riflemen, Hounds, and Guard need a second model to function. Pathfinders need Traps to function. Mounted Guards need a Ch7 or higher model. Guild Sergeants and Dashel need any Guardsmen to function at their SS cost.

Wardens and Austringers are the only Guardsman models that don't need another model to function on their own. Though Wardens arguably need hoffman's targeting systems modfication to get their Paralyze Melee off.

[Gnomezilla]

And if you want a 'can't hit the broad side of a barn but tanky' guardsman, you end up with a warden anyway, at 2ss less than the pair of guild guard. Fortunately, their sculpts look awesome and OMGsqueeithasacape! respectively.

Yes, as far as I'm concerned the new lady is alt-Dashel not alt-sergeant, if nothing else than to help me keep it in mind that of my metals, the skinny one with the baton is the sergeant and the hefty one is Dashel (even though that model's illustration went onto the card of a guild sergeant, for extra confusion). I think the hefty metal is wonderfully full of character and the skinny one somewhat lacking although more dynamic. Going to love but not own the plastic alt.

I didn't like the plastic female guild guard while I was assembling her, but once I dropped her into the minis case and saw how her dynamic pose filled exactly the niche, it was the first time I appreciated that models are supposed to occupy a cylinder in space exactly the size of their base. And she and all the rest of the guardsmen have good attachment points to the base. Whoever sculpted Lucius' box knew their business.

Every time I pick Master Queeg up I'm compelled to check something about him. When he was on the sprue in merely four pieces, it was whether he was a Wyrd product at all. Now that he's been assembled, I keep checking him for scale, and he keeps being in scale height-wise. (I may be missing something though.) Suspect it's the ballooning trousers legs throwing off my perspective. I'll paint in the front pleats which were left off for ease of painting which will make them look narrower, but my god, why were those trousers ever fashionable in the real world?

[JDAntoine]

7 hours ago, Hagisman said:

The problem with costing pair models as one model is that it makes purchasing a single model a trap. So two Guild Guard for 8ss is about average, but one Guild Guard for 4ss is over costed.

Guild Riflemen, Hounds, and Guard need a second model to function. Pathfinders need Traps to function. Mounted Guards need a Ch7 or higher model. Guild Sergeants and Dashel need any Guardsmen to function at their SS cost.

Wardens and Austringers are the only Guardsman models that don't need another model to function on their own. Though Wardens arguably need hoffman's targeting systems modfication to get their Paralyze Melee off.

I agree but as said the above quote suggests the idea of us being capable to summon Guardsman, something I hope might maby happen in the future. By large because we've seen a hint of it allready

[Ludvig]

Dashel and guard captains traded places very late in the beta, that's where all the model confusion started. In mk 1.5 there was a general guild totem called a drill sergeant and guard captains. The old drill sergeant model was beta-released as sergeant Dashel but people found it weird that the henchman was ranked lower than the enforcers so they did a switcheroo with the names in the later parts of the beta which was confusing. It is possible the Lucius box had even been showed as renders at that point. The model you get in the old Lucius box is a guard captain so that's why the wave 2 arsenal box has that art and the models have attacks named breaching axe. Dashel was suppossed to have a baton (and I've seen his axe filed away to look like one).

I find it hard to believe that guild will get a guardsman summoner except Dashel but one can dream.

[Bazlord_Prime]

Late to the party, but I've just gotten the metal Lucius box off a mate, plus i have the recent plastic alt-Guild Sergeant.

So, from reading all the above, it looks like I can probably get away with proxying either the metal Captain or the alt-Guild Sergeant as Dashel? In friendlies, anyway. But what about in Tournaments? Because that metal Captain looks almost exactly like Dashel, is there an informal proxying allowance or anything?

Or, has anybody converted the metal Captain into Dashel? That seems like it might be doable.

[Ludvig]

1 hour ago, Bazlord_Prime said:

Late to the party, but I've just gotten the metal Lucius box off a mate, plus i have the recent plastic alt-Guild Sergeant.

So, from reading all the above, it looks like I can probably get away with proxying either the metal Captain or the alt-Guild Sergeant as Dashel? In friendlies, anyway. But what about in Tournaments? Because that metal Captain looks almost exactly like Dashel, is there an informal proxying allowance or anything?

Or, has anybody converted the metal Captain into Dashel? That seems like it might be doable.

I don't think there are any official statements for which is which in gaining grounds. I wrote on the base of the model because I couldn't keep it straight myself.

The alt sculpt for a current model shoulf probably be used as that model but I don't think anyone could argue against it if you used the old guard captain as thr current guard captain. All of the tournaments I've been to would definetly let you use the alt as thr wrong model as long as you wrote it on the base so no one got confused.

[wizuriel]

Yeah the old metal and new plastic make it kind of a mess. I use the old metal Drill Sergeant Dashal as Captain Dashel and a few times people mid game forgot and thought he was a sergeant. 

[Gnomezilla]

I have now standardized to the hefty old metal (guild guard captain) being Dashel and the slender one (drill sergeant) the sergeant, and only use the arsenal box guild sergeant card with the new art. Dashel rarely uses his baton when I play him, anyway, and the sergeant never uses his axe.

[Bazlord_Prime]

Very confusing having new Dashel wielding an axe/cleaver, when his weapon is a baton :-/

And the Drill Sergeant having a baton, but being so trim :-/

;-)

Thanks all!

[Ludvig]

Dashel's baton isn't too shabby actually. A lot of the time you're just doing min damage anyway and he still has 3 min, possible 4 with debt, possible 5 with a ram card, possible 6 with a stone. If they're armored or really tough you can just auto slow instead.

[Bakunin]

I always refer to Dashel's melee weapon as a "baton", with the quotes. He seems like the kind of person who would call an axe a baton to stay within regs.

[Bazlord_Prime]

So, I was thinking to convert the metal Captain into Dashel by changing that axe to a baton (and maybe swapping out the automatic for a revolver?), but:

Now i really want to convert the female alt Sergeant. Which would really require only the same amount of work.

That'd be legit, right? As long as i clearly label her base or something? 

[Ludvig]

7 minutes ago, Bazlord_Prime said:

So, I was thinking to convert the metal Captain into Dashel by changing that axe to a baton (and maybe swapping out the automatic for a revolver?), but:

Now i really want to convert the female alt Sergeant. Which would really require only the same amount of work.

That'd be legit, right? As long as i clearly label her base or something? 

It's always up to the insividual TO but I can't imagine anyone taking issue with it. As long as it's guild parts and not a competing company you should be golden.