Nicodem woes.

[Anung Un Rama]

Having some troubles with Nicodem at the moment. I get a bit flustered and cant work out what to buy in the crew to start with and when to summon what. I find i am trying to summon hanged early but am i better waiting? I also feel like my positioning is wrong. Where do you put your Nico and how does the crew look like on setup? Is it worth hiring in some condition removal? he is my first and most loved master so i would like to take him as much as i can.

 

[Shimian]

I usually hire Morti, Chiaki and a nurse every time I play Nico. Chiaki's condition removal is great and the nurse is more or less an "Oh Shit"-Button if Nico or Morti get low on wounds. Just discard a crow, heal them full and let Chiaki remove the paralyze.

I also hire the Valedictorian very often. Just a great piece which can be useful in many situations. From there, I often go with one or two Punk Zombies. I prefer summoning cheaper models like a Rotten Belle or a Necropunk. Doesnt drain my hand that much.

From time to time I like taking Philip and the Nanny to fill up my hand cards. But that highly depends on the schemes available.

 

When it comes to positioning, I like to have nearly everyone around Nico to make the most out of his aura. So make sure everyone stay in 6" around Nico somewhere and move your death bubble over the battlefield

[LordZombie]

Can't say there is any one model I always take, but I normally will take a canine remain and Mortimer. The dog for digging up bones early, then to do other stuff later on. I do find the Vulture under par so I normally go with the Carrion Effigy. Just set up at least the beat sticks within 6" and remember his ability. Just don't get too caught up in the summon or you will find yourself with nothing to do with Nicodem. I have done that a few times. 

[MalifauxMartin]

I always start with Philip and a Necropunk. The card draw from those 2 is amazing and almost guarantees the cards to summon what you need.

I've started taking Sebastian recently with his upgrade to turn spare mindless zombies into soulstones later in the game.  He also has some surprise synergy with Mortimers poison gun and can prime enemies for Shikomes 1ap charge.

The art of Nicodem is knowing when to NOT summon i think. Sometimes spamming fast will win you a game more than another model will.

Edit: I've assumed Mortimer and corpse bloat is a given. My little helper for another corpse turn 1 is good. Admiration is good for movement if needed too.

[Alexifer]

I always hire Mortimer with Corpse Bloat for the "free" corpse every turn.  I used to bring My Favorite Shovel but for only 1 Ca AP I decided it's not worth the points.  I use the vulture to drag that corpse into the center (I usually play Nico into board-centric strats like Interference or Guard the Stash).  If my opponent kills the bird, then that puts two corpse markers near the center of the board which I usually turn into Punks if I can flurry on something or Hanged if I have that magical 13 just to get it out of the way.  I then look at enforcers and minions that I cannot summon, like Nurses.  I really like Phillip on scheme marker heavy pools as he can turn them into corpses, and then into cards if I need them.  Always consider models that Nic cannot summon first, before looking at hiring models he can summon.  I've never been sorry that I didn't hire a rotten belle (summon one, yes but never that I didn't hire one) but I've lamented not hiring a nurse or Chiaki many times.

 

 

[Kadeton]

One of the things I've decided after a year of playing Ressers is that a lot of people look at Nicodem in a very one-dimensional way. They see a summoning action and go "He's a summoner," then they forget to think about what else he might be.

I've talked about this in other threads, but I have an alternative approach to playing Nicodem that I've found to be extremely effective. He's a good summoner, yes... but the area where he really shines is in stacking the odds in your favor.

There are many pieces to his kit that contribute to this strength: the positive flip auras of Corpse Conductor and Undead Crowning, the AP-enhancement of Death's Whip and Rigor Mortis, and the card draw of Chime of Sorrow and I Can Use That! I feel like doing a bit of a breakdown of how these pieces fit together.

First, the auras. Getting  to Ml, Df and perhaps Ca is great, at the most basic level. Your attacks will work more often, your opponent's attacks will work less often, and you won't have to cheat as often to ensure that what you need to happen does. That's important, because getting  to damage is game-changing. All those cards you saved on attacks can be used to cheat damage instead, and there are many models for whom going up from Weak to Moderate damage is a significant boost. There are models whose otherwise mediocre damage suddenly spikes on Severe, which normally is a once-in-a-blue-moon thing, but now you've got better card resources to make it happen when you want. Basically, Nicodem can give every Undead model the equivalent of Focus on every attack and Defensive Stance on every defense - that's a huge amount of AP efficiency, and the ability to cheat most flips gives you tremendous control.

Second, AP enhancement. It can't be overstated, I think, how strong an ability Death's Whip is in protecting your crew's AP from the enemy. There are so many attacks out there that casually apply Slow, and that can really mess with your plans... but Nico's got your back. The fact that it also brings your summons in with full AP, raring to go, makes it even better. On top of that, if a model needs even more AP to get the job done, just hand one over to them with Rigor Mortis. It might not sound that great to spend a Master AP to gain a non-Master AP, but if you consider that the model is also getting the equivalent of Focus on the action they take with that AP, it starts to sound a lot better. Also, Ressers have a lot of highly specialized and unique actions scattered across their range - trading one of Nico's AP for a Lure or a Whispers From Beyond, for example, is an AP well spent.

Finally, card draw. Nicodem can draw a frankly stupid number of cards if he wants to. This is basically just the icing on the cake, but it's all part of the package that makes him so difficult to face: not only does your crew get better use out of the cards you have in hand than almost any other crew, but you get more of them.

So, how does this help you with your woes? Well, keeping the above in mind has led me to start optimizing my Nicodem crews along the following guiding principles:

1. Everything (other than Nico) should be Undead. Yeah, this means giving up on a lot of the usual recommendations and crutches - Mortimer, Nurses, Chiaki, etc - that everyone tells you to take. It's okay! Digging up corpses and spamming out summons is the shallow end of the pool. The deep end can be scary, but you'll end up a much better swimmer.
2. Take Undead Crowning, Maniacal Laughter and Undertaker on Nicodem, as a default. It's very rare that I'd take anything else. This is the basic configuration that supports this particular playstyle - you've got your important aura and your card draw engine.
3. Don't bother hiring top-tier Minions, like Hanged and Shikome. You can always summon these later in the game, though there's no rush. Instead, invest in Henchmen and Enforcers that hit hard - Madam Sybelle, Valedictorian, Datsue-Ba, Izamu, etc. Damage tracks that spike at Moderate (like Sybelle) or Severe (like Datsue-Ba) are excellent, even if their Weak damage isn't great. A high Df doesn't go astray either, to get full benefit from Corpse Conductor. I generally avoid stuff with too many built-in , like the Rogue Necromancy - you're paying a lot of stones for those abilities, and adding more  gives diminishing returns.
4. To complement the expensive killers, hire cheap schemers and manipulators. I particularly like Belles, especially with Sybelle - her Wk boost is great and Not Too Banged Up makes them even stronger. Not only are they fantastic for picking out the enemy models you want to kill, they're solid tarpits with free attacks and an awesome damage spike on moderate - pulling someone into a Belle moshpit under Nico's auras can be surprisingly deadly. I often hire three, especially if Public Demonstration is on the table. When they die, turn the corpses into Shikome or Punk Zombies for the counter-assault.

It's a pretty straightforward crew to play - just keep Nicodem near the centre of your pack, activating him as early as possible, doing an Undead Crowning and then healing, giving Fast or summoning as necessary. Pick a model you want to kill, drag it into your zone with Belles, and beat the snot out of it. It's especially strong in kill-focused objectives like Collect the Bounty, Headhunter and Hunting Party, and area control like Extraction and Show of Force.

Give it a try - even if you find it's not the playstyle for you, a change of gears can really help you look at things in a different way, shake old cruft loose and get the ideas flowing again.

[Paddywhack]

I agree with Kadeton and this is how I generally play Nicodem. I never take Mortimor - never. I feel he is a trap and then you get sucked into playing just one way with Nicodem and miss out on how great a support master he can be. 

The card drawing and all the bonuses you can give your crew can make it very difficult for your opponent. Then you summon as needed to replace losses or fill gaps depending on the schemes and strat.

I do however like the Rogue Necromancy as he can operate outside Nicodem's bubble and offer a hard hitter. Nicodem can also heal him back up, negating his one big weakness (low Df and getting beat to a pulp early).

I almost never take Corpse Bloat, but you can on someone other than Mortimer if you want to be sure to get a corpse when you need it, though I almost never find myself strapped for corpses. 

[Anung Un Rama]

@Kadeton Love it....i really want to try something different! So no corpse bloat or markers to start the game?

Whats your thoughts on killjoy? I love the big fatman....expensive but he reminds me of WoW abominations

[Anung Un Rama]

So something like

Nico- necrotic King, Maniacal Laugh and Undertaker

Sybelle- not too banged up and bleeding tongue

Izamu- decaying aura

3 belles

Necropunk

 

Forget about summoning until some corpse markers appear. What about the Vulture to go out and grab corpse markers and bring them back to Nicodem?

Thanks guys....you have re-energised me!

[DefyingReality]

6 hours ago, Kadeton said:

Everything (other than Nico) should be Undead. Yeah, this means giving up on a lot of the usual recommendations and crutches - Mortimer, Nurses, Chiaki, etc - that everyone tells you to take. It's okay! Digging up corpses and spamming out summons is the shallow end of the pool. The deep end can be scary, but you'll end up a much better swimmer.

I mostly agree with this. I still bring Mortimer for the corpse digging and the other things he brings to the table (I've won multiple games solely because of Chatty) and sometimes bring Anna or the Forgotten Marshall depending on the schemes or matchup, but otherwise it's all Undead, all the time. Well, other than the Graveyard Spirit, but he plays into the same Undead buffing Nico does. I've used Nurses with him once, and that was for a specific scenario (Painkillers in Divergent Paths) and have never used Chiaki -- while they do great things, they take away from other synergies that I'd rather spend more time and resources on, and that have done me a lot of good on the table.

And while I do play a summoning game with Nicodem, I typically only actually summon things every other turn, instead throwing around Rigor to give my guys Fast or Slow crucial enemy models. That aspect of his chicanery alone can turn a game, and that only barely starts to touch on the rest of what Kadeton brings up. 

[Kadeton]

2 hours ago, Morgy said:

@Kadeton Love it....i really want to try something different! So no corpse bloat or markers to start the game?

Whats your thoughts on killjoy? I love the big fatman....expensive but he reminds me of WoW abominations

I'm usually not trying to grow my crew much during the game, just replacing the models that die is enough to create an unbeatable advantage over your opponent. You can always pick out the enemy Living and Undead models if you need more corpses.

Killjoy is a very hard hitter, but I find his biggest issue is getting bogged down. On the turn he comes out he might get a (1) Charge, a couple of triggers and really wreck something, but the turn after that he's probably only getting two attacks unless your Master helps him out... that's assuming he's still alive, since he dies fairly easily. I like him a lot more with Tara, since her abilities let him reposition every turn, gain Fast, chain activate and win Initiative to maximise his effectiveness. Nothing beats his visual impact, though.

[Anung Un Rama]

I love the look on opponents faces as they nervously glance at the model sitting on his card waiting to unbury....its same look I get when I face him! lol.......

@Kadeton whats your thoughts on Bete Noire then?

[Kadeton]

I have a rocky relationship with Bête, to be honest. She's one of those models that is incredibly effective in the right situation, but borderline useless in others. She's so strongly keyed to Living targets (Scent of Blood, Sever Spine) that when you come up against primarily non-Living crews she can feel severely underwhelming. Put her toe-to-toe with an armored Construct and you're just wasting your time.

In a lot of crews her main problem is that she's really card-hungry (discarding for Flurry, specific suits for triggers, and saving a 10+ for her inevitable death), so that at least is a lot less painful in a Nicodem crew. But if it came down to a choice between Bête or Sybelle for 8 stones, there's no question which I would prefer.

If you're looking for more of a "Haha, SURPRISE!" approach, maybe check out Tara or Molly - they're both pretty great at jump scares with Killjoy and Bête.

[Anung Un Rama]

So assuming i take Sybelle who do you recommend as my beater? I like Izamu and i havent been able to get the Valedictorian to work for me.

[Vorschlag]

If you are taking Sybelle and Belles you have the potential to empty your opponents hand when you need to, might I suggest you consider flesh constructs if not in the starting crew then at least as a priority summon.

Sybelle can potentially play as a beater not so much with raw damage but through her autokill trigger, the biggest issue I see here is that she is going to burn through resources which may be more appropriately used elsewhere.

Hanged, either purchased or summoned again offer a significant damage potential as do the students to a lesser degree and of course the rogue necromancy.

Of course if your wanting a clustered ball of death then there's always Ashigaru, punk zombies and Toshiro with a belle or two to pull things in, if you're particularly keen on Bete this might be somewhere where she could shine a little.

[Kadeton]

1 hour ago, Morgy said:

So assuming i take Sybelle who do you recommend as my beater? I like Izamu and i havent been able to get the Valedictorian to work for me.

I like Izamu too - he doesn't really fit the ideal profile, but he's so good at hitting things that it doesn't really matter.

Datsue-Ba can be a good (and cheap!) option to keep in mind, especially if you expect to see some Armor. If you're prepared to blow some resources on her attacks, she can do incredible things.

[osoi]

Having faced against Kadeton's list several times it does work really well and is quite difficult to dissect. I am trying to attempt a similar style with Ramos (but not seriously yet)

[Anung Un Rama]

@Kadeton Well I tried it out today. I played against a mates Dreamer crew. He is very experienced and has played the game for a while, i have never beaten him.

I took Nicodem- Necrotic King, Maniacal Laughter and Undertaker. Sybelle with Not too Banged up and Bleeder lash. Izamu with decaying aura, 3 belles and a necro punk

Strat was headhunter and schemes where convict, hunting party, show of force, covert breakthrough and detonate the charges. I took hunting party and covert breakthrough. I should have taken detonate instead of Hunting Party.

He had Dreamer, Nekima, Teddy, some daydreams and widow weaver.

Highlights of the game- first turn belle lure of widow weaver across the board to be bashed by Izamu. Nekima whispered by a summoned hanged and then lured into Izamu to finish her. Sybelle tanked the Teddy and killed him. Necropunk went off and got me covert. All of those positive flips form Nicodem was incredible. Belles luring with positive flips!! I didnt play as well as I could have I kept forgetting to Mwuhahahaha and so missed out on the card draws all game , lesson learned for next time. I ended up winning 7-5 missing out on the damn hunting party! I really need to think about my schemes more.

My opponent loved my list and thought i played it better than i have since beginning my addiction. A few tweaks and remembering other things and I feel good about the list. Im taking it to a one day tourney on the weekend. Thank you Kadeton and all who have contributed!

[Kadeton]

@Morgy That's fantastic. Nicely done, and best of luck for the tournament!

[Anung Un Rama]

On 22/11/2016 at 7:14 PM, Vorschlag said:

If you are taking Sybelle and Belles you have the potential to empty your opponents hand when you need to, might I suggest you consider flesh constructs if not in the starting crew then at least as a priority summon.
 

Reactivate being the reason i guess? what else can they add to the crew? Are you thinking tank?

[Vorschlag]

Reactivate with a trigger for positive damage flips or 3/4/6 including built in poison.

40mm base can be used to block line of sight.

Capacity to spounge a lot of hits.

I'd put then in the same box as rat kings with Hamelin when using them with Nicodem due to coming in without slow and being a low card summon.

[TheTrans]

No thoughts on shield bearers for nico? Dismember and the mid-death corpse drop as well as a possible late game stone? I realise they are living..but still...

[DefyingReality]

17 minutes ago, TheTrans said:

No thoughts on shield bearers for nico? Dismember and the mid-death corpse drop as well as a possible late game stone? I realise they are living..but still...

I've definitely been thinking about them. Especially since I tend to play an attrition game with Nicodem, I could see a place for them in my crews to start games off, perhaps one in place of a Punk Zombie or another for a Belle. I haven't been a huge fan of proxying in Malifaux though (I realize it's perfectly OK to do and don't mind when my opponent does it, I just don't like doing it myself), so I need to wait until I can get Reva's box for myself of borrow them from someone so I can test them out.

[Anung Un Rama]

I do have the Reva box so ill give them a try sometime but not in the Necrotic King setup....I am trying to make sure the crew is all undead......the standard crew I have been using and it seems to be able to cover most strats and schemes

Nicodem- Undertaker, Maniacal Laugh an Necrotic King

Madame Sybelle- Not too banged up and Bleeding tongue

Izamu- Decaying Aura

3 Belles

Necropunk

The necropunk has been so good getting me anywhere from 3-6 points most games. Its the strats I am having problems with. Guard the stash has been quite hard s I don't like to split up the crew.

[Anung Un Rama]

@Kadeton @Vorschlag @DefyingReality @LordZombie

Ran the crew today in a small 3 game touney and won it!

First game- Had a very schemey pool against gremlins first game. Took Nico with necrotic king, maniacal laugh and undertaker. Sybelle and her two upgrades. Bête noire 3 belles and 2 necro punks

Somer summoned gremlins and I lured them over to me to get some corpse markers. Summoned hanged and whispers somer. Then lure him over and finished with punk zombie. Got detonate and leave your mark with necros and extraction was easy bête took Burt Jebsen out in one flurry. 10 -3 to me

2nd game-against  Reva. Headhunter and show of force and quick murder. Replaced the necropunks with killjoy. Big bash up in the middle I kept meuhaha corpse markers so Reva couldn't do as much  Killed the budgie early with bête kept getting show of force and headhunter was pretty good but very close.

Last game against Lucius with blind deployment. Ran out of time with collect the bounty, marked for death and neutralise the leader. Only got to turn 3 but Lucius was almost dead....killed dashel turn 2 so got a few points. Overall fun and I'm enjoying my crew. Still lots to learn