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MasterOfMonsters

Beginner Lilith Crew + Questions

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Hi everyone I'm a bit of a long time lurker that has finally gotten around to assembling/painting my 1st ever Malifaux crew (so hopefully I can get some actual games now!).

I have the following models:

Lilith Box Set, Nekima, x2 Black Blood Shamans , x2 Young Nephilim, a Mature Nephilim (My own purchases)

Mr Graves, Mr Tannen, x1 Beckoner, x1 Illuminated, x2 Depleted (Need work, but are salvageable)

A guy I know absolutely butchered his Jacob crew then junked them so I was able to rescue those models for free but sadly not the full crew as a couple were missing, a couple badly assembled and some caked in crap paint jobs, but I still have those ones in conjunction with my own stuff

So, whilst I appreciate you pick models to suit the schemes, I'm thinking that my general standard 'learn the crew/rules' list will be a thematic list of Nephilim that will possibly take advantage of Growth mechanics but not at the expense of doing other things, only if the opportunities present themselves:

 

Lilith (Wicked Mistress, Beckon Malifaux, Living Blade)

Cherub

Nekima (True Mother, Rapid Growth)

Barbaros (Obsidion Talons)

x1 Black Blood Shaman

x2 Terror Tots

(x1 Terror Tot, x2 Young Nephilim, x1 Mature Nephilim for growth purposes)

Total = 49ss and Cache is 5ss

 

So I guess I have a few questions:

1. How is my list in general for learning/playing my 1st few games?

2. Do any of those Jakob models work with Lilith? If not I won't worry too much about trying to fix them up, although I had heard Mr. Graves is somewhat good for movement and he is a Nephilim, so technically thematic and I kinda want relatively thematic/fluffy crews if they aren't too ineffective.

3. Barbaros seems very 'meh' on his stat card, but this is sort of a growth list and he seems to have movement abilities and powers revolving around that kind of list. How am I supposed to use him? He seems like he doesn't have great damage, nor great defense for his price, am I supposed to keep him close to Lilth and move stuff towards him, or can he go off on his own? All the other models seem like they have their roles and I just can't get his, even after reading the wiki.

4. Barbaros' Challenge ability makes models within 8" pass a WP duel if they want to target someone other than Barbaros. Does this mean I could walk him up to a combat that say Lilith or Nekima is involved in, and use that bubble so that if an enemy model wants to attack them they'd have pass that test before they could attack whoever they are engaged with? If I'm reading that right, I guess that is neat and somewhat starts to explain my 2nd question lol.

5. Is Rapid Growth fine on Nekima? She seems like a natural killer, so that means she can pass that benefit onto a Terror Tot within 6" because of Feast My Darlings if possible, and maybe even a Young Nephilim down the line.

6. Rules wise, the Cherub's ability Rise Up, can I safely put that on Lilith and Nekima, as they have Master of Malifaux and Flight respectively, and that nullifies it for them I think but means anything in range has to take a damage test from the Terrain when they activate in that 3" zone ? So I could use the Cherub to put that on them, not resist it (do I still flip a defence card anyway?) and then when they charge into combat that is some free extra damage and movement penalties for other models right?

7. I'd read alot of people drop Living Blade, although it does look good to sync up with Transfixing Gaze for a free swing at some point possibly, but is Fears Given Form any good on Lilith given her ability to bring models to her and move around well? That would save a SS if I switched them.

8. Tangle Shadows seems very confusing, is it:

Target a model and lets assume it passes etc, so say a Rotten Belle. Now take a friendly model with 6" and place it in base contact with the Rotten Belle, if this can't happen, i.e. no friendly models, then nothing actually happens from this ability. However, if you can place the friendly model in base contact with the Belle, take the Rotten Belle and place it in base contact with Lilith. Because of Living Blade take a free swing.

Right?

 

Thanks for replies in advance, and sorry for so many questions, I guess as I'm almost done painting (just Lilith and a Black Blood Shaman to go for my core list to be done) I'm excited and perpetually theorizing about what to take and all my crews possible interactions and abilities lol.

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1- It's a good list, but maybe there's too many models, I suggest starting with 35ss and then keep adding. 

2- Specially Graves, I always use him as he basically gives lilith a free walk every turn (losing nothing himself). Illuminated are always good, Beckoner can be good, maybe use it as a proxy for Lilitu.

3- He's basically a tank, good defenses and armor, plus usage of soulstones. Use challenge and keep him out of the fights, maybe in cover, picking on weaklings. 

4- Precisely, near an engagement but not actually engaged with the big hitters. Then your enemy has to choose between two bad options, checking wp to try and attack the other model, or trying to move out of engagement with the 1st model to try and target Barbaros. 

5- It's usually in Nekima, as long as you bring her. The problem with grow lists is that you need the tots scoring VP, and not trying to keep up with their mother, trying to evolve. 

6- Lilith ignores hazardous terrain, but flight only ignores it when moving, so Nekima would take damage when activating in it or when landing in it ( in general, not specific to Cherub).

7- Lilith is not a beater, she fights from the shadows. If surrounded by enemy models, she just dies quick. That's why people drop Living Sword for Wings of Darkness. Nekima otoh is the perfect carrier for Fears.

8- No, placing a model does not allow you to hit it, because a placement effect is not a movement. Also there is never not going to be a friendly model within 6", because Lilith herself can be chosen.

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Playing Living Blade Lilith is really fun for a couple games.  Having her just murder things is a lot of fun.

But even with her 7 Defense, she's not *that* survivable.  Masks keep her alive a while, but she'll go down.  

Generally, people make Lilith more of a utility/support master.

As above, Fears Given Form is hard on Lilith - she's often near her forces, which means she can hurt them.  Nekima, on the other hand, is usually right in the middle of everything, doing lots and lots of murder, so Fears is *great* on her.

Grow lists are interesting.  I've had the most success with them using either Angel Eyes (a sniper) with Rapid Growth or the Scion of the Black Blood with it.  Scion has a nice shotgun, some good utility, and can allow a model to discard 2 cards to remove conditions.  So you can 0 action a Young Nephilim to get a free interact, kill something, grow the Young to a Mature, and then at the start of the Mature's turn, discard 2 cards to remove slow.  Expensive, but man, it's good times.  I'd consider dropping Barbaros for the Scion if you get one.

 

The Shaman is a great piece for a grow list, so that works well.

 

The Illuminated, from Jacob's box, are great tanks.  They have regen, armor, reasonable stats, and a 0 action heal.  Hungering Darkness is Jacob only, so unless you're getting Lynch (he can use most of Lilith's box), he's not worth caring about right now.

 

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17 hours ago, MasterOfMonsters said:

Hi everyone I'm a bit of a long time lurker that has finally gotten around to assembling/painting my 1st ever Malifaux crew (so hopefully I can get some actual games now!).

I have the following models:

Lilith Box Set, Nekima, x2 Black Blood Shamans , x2 Young Nephilim, a Mature Nephilim (My own purchases)

Mr Graves, Mr Tannen, x1 Beckoner, x1 Illuminated, x2 Depleted (Need work, but are salvageable)

A guy I know absolutely butchered his Jacob crew then junked them so I was able to rescue those models for free but sadly not the full crew as a couple were missing, a couple badly assembled and some caked in crap paint jobs, but I still have those ones in conjunction with my own stuff

So, whilst I appreciate you pick models to suit the schemes, I'm thinking that my general standard 'learn the crew/rules' list will be a thematic list of Nephilim that will possibly take advantage of Growth mechanics but not at the expense of doing other things, only if the opportunities present themselves:

 

Lilith (Wicked Mistress, Beckon Malifaux, Living Blade)

Cherub

Nekima (True Mother, Rapid Growth)

Barbaros (Obsidion Talons)

x1 Black Blood Shaman

x2 Terror Tots

(x1 Terror Tot, x2 Young Nephilim, x1 Mature Nephilim for growth purposes)

Total = 49ss and Cache is 5ss

 

So I guess I have a few questions:

1. How is my list in general for learning/playing my 1st few games?

2. Do any of those Jakob models work with Lilith? If not I won't worry too much about trying to fix them up, although I had heard Mr. Graves is somewhat good for movement and he is a Nephilim, so technically thematic and I kinda want relatively thematic/fluffy crews if they aren't too ineffective.

3. Barbaros seems very 'meh' on his stat card, but this is sort of a growth list and he seems to have movement abilities and powers revolving around that kind of list. How am I supposed to use him? He seems like he doesn't have great damage, nor great defense for his price, am I supposed to keep him close to Lilth and move stuff towards him, or can he go off on his own? All the other models seem like they have their roles and I just can't get his, even after reading the wiki.

4. Barbaros' Challenge ability makes models within 8" pass a WP duel if they want to target someone other than Barbaros. Does this mean I could walk him up to a combat that say Lilith or Nekima is involved in, and use that bubble so that if an enemy model wants to attack them they'd have pass that test before they could attack whoever they are engaged with? If I'm reading that right, I guess that is neat and somewhat starts to explain my 2nd question lol.

5. Is Rapid Growth fine on Nekima? She seems like a natural killer, so that means she can pass that benefit onto a Terror Tot within 6" because of Feast My Darlings if possible, and maybe even a Young Nephilim down the line.

6. Rules wise, the Cherub's ability Rise Up, can I safely put that on Lilith and Nekima, as they have Master of Malifaux and Flight respectively, and that nullifies it for them I think but means anything in range has to take a damage test from the Terrain when they activate in that 3" zone ? So I could use the Cherub to put that on them, not resist it (do I still flip a defence card anyway?) and then when they charge into combat that is some free extra damage and movement penalties for other models right?

7. I'd read alot of people drop Living Blade, although it does look good to sync up with Transfixing Gaze for a free swing at some point possibly, but is Fears Given Form any good on Lilith given her ability to bring models to her and move around well? That would save a SS if I switched them.

8. Tangle Shadows seems very confusing, is it:

Target a model and lets assume it passes etc, so say a Rotten Belle. Now take a friendly model with 6" and place it in base contact with the Rotten Belle, if this can't happen, i.e. no friendly models, then nothing actually happens from this ability. However, if you can place the friendly model in base contact with the Belle, take the Rotten Belle and place it in base contact with Lilith. Because of Living Blade take a free swing.

Right?

 

Thanks for replies in advance, and sorry for so many questions, I guess as I'm almost done painting (just Lilith and a Black Blood Shaman to go for my core list to be done) I'm excited and perpetually theorizing about what to take and all my crews possible interactions and abilities lol.  

welcome to the game and to the neverborn!

1) For learning the game, your list is fine.  You have a good mix of abilities and levels/types of models without making things too complex.  You will change this as you find things that don't fit the way you play, or don't fir the game in hand.

2) All these models work with Lilith and your theme can simply be "neverborn" - the faction is quite easy-going without many internal divisions compared to some of the others.  IN the end, its their world and they want it back!

3) Barbaros is meh (my opinion only) as he doesn't hit hard enough to be a beater, or move fast enough to scheme run.  His challenge aura is the best thing about him, but it tends to work better with other neverborn masters (Pandora especially).  His role is basicaally to control a part of the board and mince scheme running (weak) opposing models that try and come his way.

4) you have this correct - that is one of its uses.  As I said, its the best thing on his card.

5) Yep, it will work on her fine, but it does make her rather expensive to field.  Rapid growth is a fun mechanic, but you'll find that its often more trouble than its worth and something that shouldn't be sought after.  If you manage to pull it off - great! But don't try and do this instead of earning VP from the game.

6) The rise up aura won't hurt Lilith, but would hurt Nekima as if will trigger when she activates - this might not be a bad thing however as it spills black blood which could be an advantage.  You have the rest of this right.

7) I don't drop living blade. ever.  I'd look at dropping the wicked mistress if anything and look at picking up wings of darkness to have more card draw and extra mobility from flight.

8) No free swing.  You choose a friendly model (which can be lilith herself!) and place it in base contact with a target model which failed the duel (this target can be friendly or enemy).  The target is then placed in base contact with Lilith.  You can use this to throw Nekima upfield before she activates by moving one of your other models and then placing Nekima up there while bringing back the other to Lilith.

enjoy Lilith, and when you are ready, take a look at the swampfiends - she rather enjoys them.

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Just a quick note. You don't need True Mother and Rapid growth on Nekima. They both do pretty much the same thing. I'd stick Rapid growth on another model. In your case Barbaros (though personally I'd dump him and take Mr Graves). If my memory is right that should give you 4 SS left which is another Tot.

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Nekima with Rapid Growth and The True Mother is actually fairly common. It turns her into a Growth missile. She's got the means to create Terror Tots and the means to further Grow them. It's a nice way to get that package on the board when you don't want to make it the focus of your playstyle. It also works particularly well on Nekima since Rapid Growth requires you to do killing, and that's basically all Nekima does. So she can go off and kill while birthing and growing simply as a result of her killing she's already doing, while the rest of your crew goes about the schemes and strategy.

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3 hours ago, feagaur said:

Just a quick note. You don't need True Mother and Rapid growth on Nekima. They both do pretty much the same thing. I'd stick Rapid growth on another model. In your case Barbaros (though personally I'd dump him and take Mr Graves). If my memory is right that should give you 4 SS left which is another Tot.

True Mother and Rapid Groth have no overlap in what they do. Rapid Growth is needed to give your nephilim the ability to grow and mature, True Mother just allows her to pass on the credit and summon Terror Tots.

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3 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

True Mother and Rapid Groth have no overlap in what they do. Rapid Growth is needed to give your nephilim the ability to grow and mature, True Mother just allows her to pass on the credit and summon Terror Tots.

It also allows her to create new Terror Tots, which is what makes the combo on her useful.

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