Pandora, Reporters and summoning

[Manic Mouse]

There has been a lot of rumbling about a potential Sorrow summoning Pandora Limited upgrade, and Wyrd said that they would release upgrades to existing masters to update their play styles and give options.  With ROF we now have non-neverborn Woe models in the reporters, which implies that they will in the future have some kind of interaction with 'Dora.  So how do you guys think all this stuff interacts?  Would you like to see a summoning 'Dora?  And how will 'Dora be able to make use of Reporters?

I suspect we will see new limited upgrades for existing masters, potentially in boxes with alt sculpts and perhaps some new minions (say a $35 box with an alt sculpt master, new upgrade and 3 new minions).

I was thinking an upgrade like this would allow both Pandora to summon and have access to Reporters.

Quote

The infinite sadness. (Limited) (5)

Pandora gains the following Ability:

World of sorrow: Crews led by this model may hire Woe models that are not part of this Crew's declared Faction as if they had the Mercenary Characteristic.

Friendly Woe minion models within LoS of this model gain the following Ability:

Martyr: When another Woe within 6 suffers damage, after any other damage reduction, this model may suffer 1 damage to reduce the damage suffered by the Woe by 1.

This model gains the following tactical action

(1) Manifest Melancholy (Ca 6 / TN * / Rg: 6): Name a Neverborn non-totem minion Woe model.  The TN of this action is 10 plus the Soulstone Cost of the named model.  Summon the named model within range, then this model suffers an amount of damage equal to half of the number of wounds of the summoned model (rounded up), which may only be reduced by the "Martyr" ability.

So the thought behind this upgrade - firstly it allows Pandora to hire Reporters.  I assume she will be getting some form of upgrade allowing her to hire out of faction Woes, otherwise them being woes is for no reason.  Given that the reporter's manipulative and Wp attack have great synergy with Pandora I feel 4 stones is probably too cheap for what they do in a Dora crew compared to that they do in the Nellie crew, hence the merc tax.  5 stones for what they do in a Dora crew I feel is more fair.

The summoning and Martyr interact to mean that it will cost you 2 wounds to summon either a sorrow or an insidious madness currently, as the only non-totem Neverborn Woe minion models in the game.  Those wounds will default to Pandora who (with only 10 wounds) cannot really afford that kind of damage.  However it can be reduced with the martyr ability, allowing you to spread that damage around your woes.  It will always cost you 2 wounds to summon, however with smart use of Martyr you can spread those wounds around so it isn't crippling.  Note it happens after summoning, so Pandora can summon a woe and deal one damage to herself and the summoned woe - however given their low wounds this will likely mean they die in one hit.

Leaving it at "half the wounds of the summoned model" rather than a flat 2 damage means that while it will cost 2 at the moment, Wyrd have the option of adding new Woe minion models to the game that may be too good to cost simply 2 wounds to summon, or ones that are worse and would only cost 1 wound.  This also means they could include a new, summonable Woe minion in my proposed alt pandora model and minion box!

So do you guys have any ideas how reporters fit into Pandora's crew, and how a summoner Pandora could work?

*Disclaimer* by posting this I am in no way demanding that Wyrd make this upgrade, I am in no way suggesting there is something wrong with Pandora as she currently is. All I am doing is airing some ideas and trying to open discussion on other ideas people have for the game.

[Jafar]

18 minutes ago, Manic Mouse said:

and Wyrd said that they would release upgrades to existing masters to update their play styles and give options.

I know I am off-topic, but I didn't know about that. Is there any link, article etc. to prove it?

But your idea about Pandora is neat Can bring a new way to play her.

[Manic Mouse]

8 minutes ago, Jafar said:

I know I am off-topic, but I didn't know about that. Is there any link, article etc. to prove it?

But your idea about Pandora is neat Can bring a new way to play her.

From memory when they first announced the upgrade mechanic that was one of the things they cited as reasoning behind it - the ability to update masters to work with new models, have new play styles, and stay relevant in the meta.  Don't have a link though.

It's also the only way I can imagine them being able to incorporate Reporters into a Pandora crew - currently she has no way to hire them. So either she gets a new upgrade that allows her to do so, or there is no reason for the "Woe" characteristic on their card (which would be unusual).

[Fetid Strumpet]

To my knowledge Wyrd never said they were ever going to add upgrades to specific masters, only that it was always an option and why they liked the upgrade mechanic in that it allowed them to take advantage of it if they wanted to. That doesn't mean the plan to do so.

Personally I think Pandora is fine without needing summoning, and that he base card is strong enough you'd have to add penalties to the upgrade if you ever gave her the ability to summon sorrows. Something along the lines of getting rid of her own Misery aura, among other things.

Getting a keyword doesn't actually mean that there is an intent to ever do anything with it. The Fact that they are sorrows just gives them an option to play with that keyword at some point, not that they are going to, and not that they are going to in any particular way. Molly's a Belle, and Seamus still can't do anything with her. From my knowledge of the wave 2 open beta it was left on there pretty much for thematic reasons, and Sybelle and her were tested to make sure leaving it on wasn't going to be an issue. I'm pretty certain if there was they would have just removed the belle trait. Remember there is a swarm keyword, and at the moment, 4 books on from when it was first introduced there is still nothing that I know of that operates on it.

The fact that they have the sorrow keyword doesn't really signify anything. It doesn't mean they are necessarily planning to get them into Pandora's crew, or that they are planning to make a cross hiring upgrade, or that they are planning on making an Anti-Sorrow upgrade for someone. It just is a thematic nod to the fact the in popular culture, at least in the US, journalists and the media are disliked, and that it opens design space for them later to play with the keyword later if they want to. 

They absolutely could have plans to allow Pandora to interact with them in some way. They could equally have not any plans to do anything with it at the present.

Speculating for myself, personally, I doubt there are any plans to allow Pandora, one of the more complained about NB masters the ability to either summon anything, or to allow her to hire in one of the best Scheme runners in the game for their points, who also due to manipulative would synergize to such an extreme level with her abilities. I maybe could see the balance being slated that way if Pandora was as looked down on as Lucius, and thus in need of some boosting, but Pandora, no, I doubt it.

 

[MetaphoricDragn]

It is true, in so far as I know, nothing anywhere near official about new master upgrades or any version of a summoning Pandora.  Though I've often speculating similar.  If anything it might end up coming into play for Lucius instead of 'Dora, if we get a neverborn that has an effect on Woes, Lucius might end up able to bring it into Guild.

[HydroMog]

ya but dont forget that woes are not exclusive to neverborn builds. i believe that hamlin has an upgrade that lets him hire woes.

[Mr Janje]

1 hour ago, HydroMog said:

ya but dont forget that woes are not exclusive to neverborn builds. i believe that hamlin has an upgrade that lets him hire woes.

He hires Lost (Which includes Baby Kade, Candy and Iggy)

 

[spooky_squirrel]

With the growing up of The Dreamer's form in RoF, there's some wiggle room to have him have another limited summoning upgrade that works like the Nightmare summoning, only it pulls in Woe models instead. He has, after all, gotten tired of the childish games and wants to go stir up some real trouble.

Lucius takes pleasure in the suffering of others, but already infiltrates in Mimics. It would be interesting to have him infiltrate in Woes as well (or instead) with some added interactions with them.

That being said, I don't know how they would go about balancing these out (or if it would only be for scenario missions). I'd have to look through my books and see if there's an obvious "no, don't do that" that would come up (yeah, Sorrows would be mean alongside Manipulative reporters, but not nearly as bad as in a full Pandora crew). Finally, as was mentioned by @Fetid Strumpet: Wyrd saying something is an option is not the same thing as Wyrd saying "here's new Master limited upgrade cards for you, ready to play."

[HydroMog]

3 hours ago, Mr Janje said:

He hires Lost (Which includes Baby Kade, Candy and Iggy)

 

oh my bad, thought it was woes.

[edopersichetti]

This just happened!!

+1 to the OP for the foresight!

p.s. I don't know field reporters very well but they do seem a valid models for only 4 SS!

[D_acolyte]

Did not see the post was from a year ago.

[edopersichetti]

On 10/31/2016 at 10:01 AM, Fetid Strumpet said:

To my knowledge Wyrd never said they were ever going to add upgrades to specific masters, only that it was always an option and why they liked the upgrade mechanic in that it allowed them to take advantage of it if they wanted to. That doesn't mean the plan to do so.

Personally I think Pandora is fine without needing summoning, and that he base card is strong enough you'd have to add penalties to the upgrade if you ever gave her the ability to summon sorrows. Something along the lines of getting rid of her own Misery aura, among other things.

Getting a keyword doesn't actually mean that there is an intent to ever do anything with it. The Fact that they are sorrows just gives them an option to play with that keyword at some point, not that they are going to, and not that they are going to in any particular way. Molly's a Belle, and Seamus still can't do anything with her. From my knowledge of the wave 2 open beta it was left on there pretty much for thematic reasons, and Sybelle and her were tested to make sure leaving it on wasn't going to be an issue. I'm pretty certain if there was they would have just removed the belle trait. Remember there is a swarm keyword, and at the moment, 4 books on from when it was first introduced there is still nothing that I know of that operates on it.

The fact that they have the sorrow keyword doesn't really signify anything. It doesn't mean they are necessarily planning to get them into Pandora's crew, or that they are planning to make a cross hiring upgrade, or that they are planning on making an Anti-Sorrow upgrade for someone. It just is a thematic nod to the fact the in popular culture, at least in the US, journalists and the media are disliked, and that it opens design space for them later to play with the keyword later if they want to. 

They absolutely could have plans to allow Pandora to interact with them in some way. They could equally have not any plans to do anything with it at the present.

Speculating for myself, personally, I doubt there are any plans to allow Pandora, one of the more complained about NB masters the ability to either summon anything, or to allow her to hire in one of the best Scheme runners in the game for their points, who also due to manipulative would synergize to such an extreme level with her abilities. I maybe could see the balance being slated that way if Pandora was as looked down on as Lucius, and thus in need of some boosting, but Pandora, no, I doubt it.

 

Sorry, came to this old post to read a bit about reporters and Pandora and I hadn't seen this comment. Looks like summoning AND hiring Woes happened after all

Any suggestions about using Reporters with 'Dora? Would you hire a couple, or maybe just one? I confess I don't know them very well, I only came across them once and they didn't seem that impressive (but also died pretty quickly, so can't say for sure).

[Ludvig]

@edopersichetti

They are 4ss models with both disguised and manupulative which is pretty good as far as survivability goes. I believe their attack targets wp which pandy likes and it can push stuff away which is a pretty powerful thing when you are disguised. They shut down opponents and create unfavouable positions for them.

[-Loki-]

Their attack is Ca 5 with a built in Mask targetting Wp, so they're nice for attacking things in Misery bubbles. The built in mask gives them a 5" push on the enemy away from them, which could be nice for getting something into a Misery bubble. Their other triggers are nice - Assaulted +2 lasts until the model activated and causes +2 damage. If you manage to stack a few of these on something, you could kill it on activation. Another gives Slow, and the last gives the enemy on all attack actions until the end of the game, with an option to remove it by taking an Interact or discarding 2 cards.

Their tactical actions are nice too. One is a ranged ability to swap an enemy scheme marker with a friendly, and they have a 0 that lets them discard a card to guarantee suits on their attack action. Along with being fairly durable not-Incorporeal minions for 4ss, they're really nice for Pandora.

However, whether access to them and Sorrow and Poltergeist summoning (Sorrow summoning is a very high card requirement and needing a condition on the enemy for just a Sorrow) is worth losing The Box Opens or Voices... That's going to require some playing to find out.

[edopersichetti]

11 hours ago, Ludvig said:

@edopersichetti

They are 4ss models with both disguised and manupulative which is pretty good as far as survivability goes. I believe their attack targets wp which pandy likes and it can push stuff away which is a pretty powerful thing when you are disguised. They shut down opponents and create unfavouable positions for them.

Yes - I just looked at them and for 4SS they don't seem bad at all!

6 hours ago, -Loki- said:

Their attack is Ca 5 with a built in Mask targetting Wp, so they're nice for attacking things in Misery bubbles. The built in mask gives them a 5" push on the enemy away from them, which could be nice for getting something into a Misery bubble. Their other triggers are nice - Assaulted +2 lasts until the model activated and causes +2 damage. If you manage to stack a few of these on something, you could kill it on activation. Another gives Slow, and the last gives the enemy on all attack actions until the end of the game, with an option to remove it by taking an Interact or discarding 2 cards.

Their tactical actions are nice too. One is a ranged ability to swap an enemy scheme marker with a friendly, and they have a 0 that lets them discard a card to guarantee suits on their attack action. Along with being fairly durable not-Incorporeal minions for 4ss, they're really nice for Pandora.

However, whether access to them and Sorrow and Poltergeist summoning (Sorrow summoning is a very high card requirement and needing a condition on the enemy for just a Sorrow) is worth losing The Box Opens or Voices... That's going to require some playing to find out.

Agreed - playtesting them is exactly what I mean to do. Normally I love Voices! But I think it may be worth it...I like using Sorrows and use Misery quite heavily. We'll see, I'll keep everyone posted!