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Morgy

Sandeep experiences so far?

194 posts in this topic

So what would be a good core 30-35ish points to play around with Sandeep core list barring the mages? Guards look real good and I love them in a Toni list, and Amina is always a fun addition. Is Deep looking to run threats in the list while his summons scheme or is he bringing a ton of control and holding large sections of the board with the threat of his move + casts?

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12 hours ago, Alexander Tsikarev said:

Could you please provide a sample of your non-mage crew?

I do not understand how Leveticus can do this. Please explain. Btw, the Mages often have a :+fate on Wp duels, so Leveticus will need three 12+ cards even to hit.

He could always hit them with his Ml attack,  (Against df) which is easy for him to get positive Damage flips on, and so potentially doing 8 damage per attack. I find mages are typically close together, so its not too unlikely that he can hit them all. 

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@Alexander Tsikarev  As requested one of my crew lists from a recent event (vs Guild);

Round 1 - Flank Head Hunter

Dig their Graves, Search the Ruins, Claim Jump, Eliminate the Leadership, Inspection 

Sandeep Desai
+ Arcane Reservoir (2)
+ To Command Another Plane (1)
+ Seize the Day (1)
+ 7ss Cache (3)

Carlos Vasquez (9)   Tank and control space as needed.
+ Stunt Double (1)
+ Practiced Production (1)

Myranda (8)   Secondary hitting power, bonus activation, card draw.
+ Imbued Energies (1)

Miss Step (12)  Primary hitting power.

Performer (5)  To deal with enemy scheme markers and sneak heads out.
Malifaux Raptor (3)  Cheap activations who get in the way and don't drop heads.
Malifaux Raptor (3)

 

10 hours ago, Mrbedlam said:

Is Deep looking to run threats in the list while his summons scheme or is he bringing a ton of control and holding large sections of the board with the threat of his move + casts?

Either IMO.  Personally I like taking a balanced list and using his summoning to fill gaps in my line as needed. 

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On 9/4/2017 at 1:35 PM, mythicFOX said:

 

  • Sandeep: Commands, Seize the Day, Arcane Reservoir, 7ss Cache  (7)
  • Carlos Vasquez: Stunt Double, Practiced Production (11)
  • Myranda: Imbued Energies (9)
  • Johan: Imbued Energies (8)
  • Silent One (6)
  • Soulstone Miner  (6)
  • Malifaux Raptor  (3)

Yesterday I tested your Crew with a little change, Ice dancer for Soulstone Miner.

Vs Tara, with a really nasty final, 10-1 for Sandeep, it's a very hard Crew, only thing I don't like is use the upgrade to give :melee3 on Banasuba because although I engaged him with a lot of models, the rest of the game out Kudra to kill him and no draw :mask for teleport he can't move more.

In the Crew can change Silent + Ice Dancer + 1ss of cache for Howard + IE, but we lost beacon hability out of Gamins and I'm not sure.

What do you think?

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@Fictor 

I wouldn't want to go down to six activations in this crew, seven activations is more or less the competitive minimum. If I wanted Howard I'd rework it.  I think Myranda, Johan, and Howard is overkill in the hitting power department unless the objective set is basically all killing.

With Banasuva you have to pick your poison;  Can't attack is more or less a no go, so it's can't cheat or can't move.  I think can't move makes him less useless but YMMV.

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@Fictor

The lower end of hired activations in a competitive game is one of the key differences between Ramos and Sandeep. Sandeep can summon and retain at most 3 additional models and each of those models has a unique role on the table. So it helps him to have more activations (I like to keep Sandeep at 8-9 hired activations, and certainly would not approach the table with only 6 unless one of them is the Mechanical Rider).

 

I've played both of the Commands upgrades on Banasuva that don't remove the ability to fight, and here's what I've experienced:

  • Can't cheat, but immune to slow.
    • It makes the first turn he's on the table very interesting. End of turn is typically when he activates; I don't have a hand left, all my force multipliers are out, so he's attacking on 1-2 positives and rolling from there. I don't care that he cannot cheat in that first turn, especially if I out activated my opponent.
    • If my opponent is out activating me, or if they have things like Terrifying (All), or it's the second turn that Banasuva's on the table, the cannot cheat becomes a massive liability.
      • Banasuva can still roll around the table trying to mess up things, but early in the turn, my opponent has a hand and can overbid whatever I flip and leave me with a giant distraction piece flailing at a support element.
      • Wp duels and anything along those lines go from "well, I have an 8 in hand for passing that" to "I hope I flip well" once cheating is removed from the list of options.
    • Controller crews that are relying on handing out slow cannot mess with him this way, but lures and similar abilities are more reliable.
    • Good for targeting low defense scheme runners or tying up support, but don't count on him actually hitting/killing things.
  • Cannot move/push, but gets a large attack range.
    • He's still a melee expert, so he'll get two melee attacks if he's near enough to targets.
    • Creates a massive (~8" diameter circle) area in which most interacts are stopped due to engagement. Forces most models to have to take disengaging strikes to walk away, engages most models from outside their own engagement range.
    • Can still cheat.
      • Comes up when copying abilities from Sandeep. His (0) to place, for instance, allows you to jump and engage new targets with a roughly 11" threat range on a high enough mask. Alternatively, can lure targets in to beat on them.
      • Comes up when having to pass Wp duels from Anna's bury trigger or similar effects that can neuter his combat abilities without killing him.
    • Cannot be lured out of position. Unless the enemy effort to control him involves placing him, he stays where he's at.
    • Can be slowed, but still gets 1 general AP (non-walking/moving) and Melee Expert.
    • Can still use all the positives that you might apply to the non-cheating option.
    • Good for tying up clusters of models and creating a hazard that must be dealt with in some way.
  • (for completionism) Cannot use attack actions, grants bonuses
    • Wider footprint due to larger base
    • removes a min damage 3 Melee Expert from the threat pool. Don't do this with Commands. This makes more sense with Visions.
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Second test, 10-0 vs Asami Tanaka, Banasuva did all the job killing the Master and later he explodes for 4 dmg, is a beast.

Things that doesn't convince me: Johan and Silent One are so slowly for me... Johan is so good but, sometimes he can't come at time for his wk4, same for Silent, but she can teleport with Sandeep's hability.

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Silent one doesnt always need to be fast. If Deep drops out an ice gamin she can ice mirror through it. Also taking a December acolyte or turning myranda into a blessed or bringing an ice dancer etc will extend the threat range of the silent one significantly

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What do you think abaout this Crew? :

  • Sandeep: Commands, Seize the Day, Arcane Reservoir, 6ss Cache  (7)
  • Carlos Vasquez: Stunt Double, Practiced Production (11)
  • Myranda: Imbued Energies (9)
  • Howard Langston: Imbued Energies (13)
  • Silent One (6)
  • Arcane Effigy (4)
  • Malifaux Raptor (3)

I love the Effigy, he can upgrade the attack of Sandeep, remove conditions and have good dmg when uses Beacon from Sandeep.

The negative point of the list is that Howard will cost more ss than Carlos and we can't play about deny the Quick Murder scheme.

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Honestly i would nit play Hank. I dislike him being so pricy. Not that i think he's weak or somethung, but i dislike playing super beater. I prefer two middle-class beaters.

In his place I'd take a Union miner (levely sinergy with PP, good schemer, burning for FFM and good sandeep's blast attack with his in-built [+] to dmgs) and Johan with Well rehaersed.

Here we have a lot of good sinergies: johan and miner buff the other one being M&SU and the false claims markers give Johan good mobility.

I like Arcane Effigy with Sandeep but I'm finding less and less space for it in my lists, as I prefer something with [+] for the beaconed arcane storm (or its name..) and in the 4-class models I really need a hired gamin for bonasuva.

Actually I'm gonna try this list in the next games (when learning a master I tend to use fixed lists or nearly-fixed ones):

Sandeep: arcane reservoire, Commands, seize the day (but I'm not very sold on this last one). 7 ss

Baritone Lola=Cassandra: PP (don't have Carlos, yet)

Johan: well rehearsed

Union Miner

Large arachnid

Ice gamin

Rail worker

Malifaux raptor

Malifaux raptor

 

Surely is less punchy than Hank+Myranda+Bonasuva, but lately i'm noting to not needing that much killing power (bonasuva and sandeep usally are enought). In addiction the first games in the club with sandeep (3 so far, all with joss-kudra-ox.trio) left people unsatisfied witg their crews nearly whiped out and really confused them with the too much Academic interactions. And.. i don't own Myranda.

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After many games with Arcanist I can say Myranda is the best miniature that we have, not for himself or the Cerverus, the reason is, in this game we have two resources Aps and Cards, and IE give us four extra card in the moment that we need, it's so powerfull.

The decision for play Hank is because he have virtually 4Aps, nimble + flurry, is fast and can hit when we want, and the enemy will lost a lot of Aps to kill him.

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Howard is a fantastic model for use with Sandeep, and I would take him over two lesser beaters for one reason: Enlightened Soul. Turning him Incorporeal makes it both much harder for the enemy to kill him and also let's him move through models, so it's far harder to stop him from getting where he wants to go.

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But he's a enormous target. And dictates the game with his success or failure. Don't like it, sorry. I know he's good at killing and he's fast (and that the crew has lures to reposition him), but dies realtively easy for his cost too. Imho.

Myranda.. never bought marcus' box. He's one of the three arcanist masters i don't own and i'm not interested to play (with raspy and kaeris). Can't judge her, but i see her power (and had played against her some times).

Really i've only recently bought malifaux raptor box. Not liking their models, they was low in my priority. 😇

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1 minute ago, retnab said:

Howard is a fantastic model for use with Sandeep, and I would take him over two lesser beaters for one reason: Enlightened Soul. Turning him Incorporeal makes it both much harder for the enemy to kill him and also let's him move through models, so it's far harder to stop him from getting where he wants to go.

But for Enlightened soul you have to not take seize the day, an upgrade I find nearly auto-take when i have a hight cost beater deep into the enemy lines.

I'll give a try with him, tought. Surely I'll do :D

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27 minutes ago, Frollo the Wordbearer said:

But he's a enormous target. And dictates the game with his success or failure. Don't like it, sorry. I know he's good at killing and he's fast (and that the crew has lures to reposition him), but dies realtively easy for his cost too. Imho.

If your opponent is having an easy time killing something with good Wounds, Armor, and Incorporeal, either they're playing an obscenely killy list or they're spending a ton of AP to do it. If the first, you're going to have problems either way, and if the latter that's already a win. With FFM in the pool 1/4 of the time as well, Howard is an obvious target for it and can force your opponent into the lose-lose situation of letting him go wild or kill him and give you VP.

Additionally, if you're finding damage isn't a problem try some games with Visions instead of Commands and see how that changes how you play. Bringing a killcrew is a lot easier when you can summon in your scheme runners.

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10 hours ago, Frollo the Wordbearer said:

Myranda.. never bought marcus' box. He's one of the three arcanist masters i don't own and i'm not interested to play (with raspy and kaeris). Can't judge her, but i see her power (and had played against her some times).

Some shops sell the old version of Myranda. You could buy it together with a Cerberus box and you would have her without buying the Marcus box.

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While cheating on my primary faction and playing Hamelin on Tuesday I went up against our meta's Sandeep expert. He played Deep with 3 mages, Amina with warding runes, a librarian and 2 silent ones. This list was very hard to deal with and the game ended 7-5 in his favor, with the score only being so low because Hamelin is impossible to score some schemes against reliably. From my point of view, I had a hard time getting through the wall of mages and Hamelin has trouble obeying one when they are on positives to WP duels and 1 attack from a mage doesn't really do much. 

 

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On 17.4.2017 at 7:22 PM, retnab said:

If your opponent is having an easy time killing something with good Wounds, Armor, and Incorporeal, either they're playing an obscenely killy list or they're spending a ton of AP to do it. If the first, you're going to have problems either way, and if the latter that's already a win. With FFM in the pool 1/4 of the time as well, Howard is an obvious target for it and can force your opponent into the lose-lose situation of letting him go wild or kill him and give you VP.

Additionally, if you're finding damage isn't a problem try some games with Visions instead of Commands and see how that changes how you play. Bringing a killcrew is a lot easier when you can summon in your scheme runners.

...or they are playing Wong with a 7ss model.

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5 hours ago, Myyrä said:

...or they are playing Wong with a 7ss model.

Which is a thing.

Curve balls like this are why the top tier players in my regional tournament scene don't rely on the models that are slightly over the curve in general play (Arcanists with Myranda-Rus/Luther is not slightly over the curve). Wong will put an Ooh Glowy min damage 3-5 model with reckless and/or fast into what is supposed to be the single hardest to kill thing in your crew and laugh as his 7 stone model with at most 1 external AP support (to give it fast) goes into a 12-13 stone model that has 2-3 external AP supporting it ...and kills it in a single activation. At that point, he's ahead on attrition, and your speediest model is a scrap marker.

Last year, two of the top Arcanist players in my region played into each other. The game ended up being swung heavily in favor of the Sandeep crew in Turn 1 when Myranda-Rus killed the Mechanical Rider (repeated Tome triggers with min damage 3 with baked-in positives from a refreshed hand versus a depleted hand). In the AAR, the Sandeep player offered that he would never play something pricey like the Mechanical Rider into an unknown opponent, because of the curve-ball threats that can reach it in Turn 1 if it doesn't just spend its turn on the back table edge. The same thing applies to Howard Langston: if you have reasonable suspicion about what your opponent will drop, go for it. If you don't know, that's a quarter of your crew walking down a back alley after dark.

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