Reva Tactics and Samples

[benjoewoo]

This is essentially a log of Reva crews I use/plan to use, along with notes on performance, pros, cons, and average player level analysis of Reva's strengths and weaknesses overall. Maybe it'll become a tactica/tacical, but either way I'll log my thoughts here as I improve my own Reva game play.

Reva Box Contents

1.     Models: Reva, Vincent St. Clair, 2x Corpse Candles, 3x Shield Bearers, 

2.     Upgrades:

a.      Reva

                                                    i.     Guises of Death (Limited), Beyond Death (Limited), Blood Mark, Litany of the Fallen

b.     Vincent St. Clair

                                                    i.     Deal with Death

c.      Souldbound (Shield Bearers and Draugr—not in box)

                                                    i.     2x Another Purpose (Rare 2), 3x My fight is Not Finished, 3x The Gift of Death

Box Analysis--general thoughts, based on 35 SS games and 50 SS games using whole box

Box is strong as is with good synergy overall considering previous box releases. It's more kill oriented, but can be flexible with Fast tricks for shield bearers (based on discarding or using SS within 6") to effectively run schemes. Above average activation control out of box with up to 6 models starting on the field, 7 by end of Turn 1 assuming Reva summons a candle on her activation.

Reva definitely can use the box models and her upgrades give her interesting options, even if most players will only take a couple after becoming familiar. Her card's front side is interesting, with an average Df 5, a great Wp 7, great 13 Wds, average Wk 5, amazing Cg 10 (when including her 3" melee), and great Ht 3--the average, great, and amazing terms are to describe the stats in relation to the game's general average, e.g. Df, Wp, and Wk average values are 5. The main thing about Reva on the front of the card is her Strength of the Fallen (SotF) ability, which lets her draw LoS and range from any corpse marker within 18" of herself for Ca actions--combined with her 3" melee range, this means she gets at least 22.1811" from a regular 30mm corpse marker. Length wise this is just short of Raspy's minimum 23.1811", but in theory is easier to achieve given Reva's 50mm base size and Ht 3 vs. Raspy's 30mm base size and Ht 2. Reva will not need to move as often to see corpse markers compared to Raspy, though Raspy will have an easier time drawing LoS from her proxy turrets to enemy models, since her proxies are currently all minimum Ht 1 models. At Ht 0 for regular corpse markers, Reva will often depend on enemy models LoS lines to attack them. Reva has an 8" aura that heals her for 1 whenever a non-peon is killed, and unimpeded--interesting on the first, somewhat expected on the second considering model size. Her last ability is her only form of innate summoning--discard a card at the beginning of her activation to summon a candle within 8" and LoS.

Reva's backside reveals all of her actions are Ca actions, most important of which is her melee. It's a good Ca 6 with a built in crow, and has triggers for just the crow (pitch a corpse marker within 3" of target for +1 damage), crow ram (after damage heal 2), and crow mask (after damage push target up to 3" towards a corpse marker within LoS). The damage track is 3/4/5, so when corpses are plentiful it essentially reads 4/5/6 barring you need the other triggers. Her attack 0 is a good Ca 6 crow targeting Wp with a TN crow tome. It does damage based on the difference in duel totals between Reva and the target, assuming Reva hits the tome required for the TN. The damage is capped at 5, however. Reva's tactical 0 is a Ca 6, TN 14 simple duel that places her b2b with a corpse marker within 5", regardless of LoS. An above average card is required, but this is Reva's primary form of walking, getting her up to 6.1811" using a normal 30mm corpse marker. Her tactical 1 AP action is also a Ca action with 5" range that, on a 5, converts a corpse marker into a friendly scheme marker, discarding the corpse. A non-built in crow trigger will not discard the corpse.

For Reva's upgrades. Guises of Death lets her summon a corpse candle on the enemy half of the board 8" away from any enemy model--this prevents the corpse candle from being able to walk up to an enemy model and putting itself in range for Reva to hit without using its 0. Beyond Death gives Reva a trigger on a crow tome to deal no damage to the target she attacks with her current melee action and instead charge another target. This generates an additional AP of attacking, while allowing Reva to move around the board at relatively low cost--because an unlimited ability to generate AP on tomes would be broken this trigger can only be declared once per Activation. Blood Mark allows Reva on a 6 of any suit to push a model up to 5", and if it's a Revenant or Spirit, take a 0 action. On a crow ram, with the crow build into the Ca, the target is considered a corpse marker for purposes of SotF. This could upgrade Reva's max range to just over 23" using a 50mm target, while Raspy's max range will be just over 24". But, Reva will have equal ability to draw LoS because she can also use a Ht 3 model like Raspy. Litany of Fallen is last, and can be a very powerful tool box upgrade despite having the shortest text--it adds an alternative crow trigger to the melee attack to prevent any damage reduction, ensuring Reva's 3/4/5 track is a 3/4/5 track against targets with armor, anti-Ca tech, etc.

All of Reva's upgrades cost 1 SS except Litany of the Fallen, which costs 2 SS. Between them, I would think Guises of death and Litany will be the more common takes. 

Beyond Death can be good, but puts her in unnecessary danger and only brings a relevant trigger if she hits an enemy model with a tome trigger—the enemy model requirement drops its utility significantly compared to Guises of Death. The extra AP from the charge is good, but Reva is squishy despite 13 Wds, with no survival related abilities other than healing when non-peons around her die, so charging her into enemy models goes against being a long range sniper. That being said, there may be situations in which this works better, e.g. close or blind deployment. In a close deployment game against Asami, I took Beyond Death and never once triggered the additional trigger—it was always more efficient and safer to summon a candle out of enemy engagement, 0 teleport, and use SotF from there.

I previously posted that I thought Blood Mark was situational because it’s a hedged position for when Reva can’t immediately attack on her activation. But, after encountering a number of games where Litany literally did nothing or I had to charge with Reva to get attacks in, I have moved Litany down from auto-include to a tool box, because it’s match dependent, and moved Blood Mark to a default position until I find there’s a better upgrade. With Blood Mark, Reva’s threat range Turn 1 is without a previously set up corpse marker is between 17.1811”-18.3622” from her position—8” summon, 1.1811” base, 5” push, 1.1811” after using a 0 (if you can), and 3” range. It’ll require her to use 1 AP to push, but if she’s in range, she makes up with having her 0 for attempting to hit a third time. I have also found that Blood Mark can be extremely useful for chain activating models opponents don’t expect, and makes lists with slower models more effective. An extra SS to start is also nothing to spit at. Lastly, against shooting heavy crews/factions, e.g. Guild, Blood Mark will help Reva stay relatively out of reach while still in threat range. Nothing sucks more than having to go into melee and then get shot up by all those positive attack flips or cover ignoring models.

The weakest inclusion in my opinion is surprisingly Vincent, though my opinion of him is not strictly negative. He offers no melee and his only melee engagement escape outside of his push trigger is his specific upgrade, which is fairly conditional. This is especially true for box synergy, since he'll want to start close to shield bearers to give them Fast Turn 1. He will also often be a scheme runner because of his push, so not having interact actions Turn 1 can be a large detriment. But, a good shooting action plus useful triggers can conditionally turn him into a powerhouse. There are better general henchmen, but Vincent can bring that oomph you need from range, and sometimes you’ll want it because charging will risk retaliation for potentially better damage.

Continuing, Vincent's shoot action is above average with a 2/3/4 track that will usually be a 3/4/5 track once corpses start showing up in greater numbers—his max is a 4/5/6 track. The attack also ignores incorporeal and HtW, making him adept at hunting other spirits and undead. His printed 0 is his main selling point, which prevents damage reduction and prevention on a model. It's a Ca 6 with a built in crow against Wp with a TN 10 crow ram, so Vincent will need to get a ram. He can stone or cheat as normal, but can also discard a corpse marker within 6" to add a suit--at the beginning of his activation, he declares a suit and may discard a corpse marker within 6" when taking an action to add that suit to the action's duel total. With that, the TN is very easy and relatively low cost. I have rarely used this action because of the ram requirement and I feel Vincent operates more as an upgrade platform with the option to run schemes, contest the strategy, or shoot.

He has a tactical to put down a blast marker that creates simple duels with damage consequences, but this will discard a corpse marker unless a trigger is declared to keep the corpse marker. This action is why I currently take Corpse Bloat with him—the range is roughly the same, and gives Vincent the option to target Df or Wk, a powerful option against every faction.

Vincent’s survival options are the aura he, Reva, and Draugr share, Df/Wp 6, SS as a henchmen, and his push trigger, which is built in on Df but needs a mask on Wp. The defensive push is nice for making him slippery, but he has to survive damage first. I pretty much never stone for prevention except Turn 1 to give shield bearers fast.

In the box Vincent is solid because his shot ignores friendly spirits, synergizing with shield bearers who go spirit mode after 4 Wds of damage. He can mitigate control hand drain with his 6" aura to draw cards when models discard corpses outside of his activation--which can be triggered by enemy models as well as friendly ones. He can combo well with Philip and Reva, both of whom can convert corpse markers into scheme markers. 

Next are the Corpse candles, or candles as I've been referring to them. They're Reva's totems, rare 2, and terribly easy to kill, with 2 Df, Wp, and Wds. Wk 4, - Cg, and Ht 2 are surprisingly not terrible for Ressers. The front of their card is largely irrelevant, and the important part is they count as corpse markers for friendly models, most importantly Reva overall and Vincent while you use him. On the back, they have a melee attack, which you will rarely if ever use. They have a 0, which is why the opponent will care about them--the 0 kills the candle, which generates a corpse marker b2b to replace itself, and gives 1 of 3 effects--disguised to a friendly model within 6" (can't be charged), chain activate a friendly model within 8" while drawing and then discarding a card (can be done out of activation with Blood Mark, since candles are spirits), and forcing an enemy model within 6" to discard a card or give plus flips to any attack actions targeting it, including friendly ones. A necessary piece since they're Reva's totems and only innate summons, but they carry their weight for activation control, card cycling, and corpse marker placement for Reva. They also allow her, with Blood Mark, to accomplice a model within 14.1811" (1.1811" base, 5" push, 8" range on the 0 to effectively accomplice). 

Shield bearers are last, They have a below average Df 4, good Wp 6, deceptive 4 Wds, average Wk 5, average Cg 6, and average Ht 2. What makes the 4 Wds deceptive is that when shield bearers, which are living normally, are reduced to 0 wounds, they attach a Soulbound restricted upgrade if they don't already have one and heal all Wds, regardless of restrictions, e.g. Hanged. They also have Armor +1, so those 4 Wds will last a little longer than normal. Lastly, they have Vigor, which gives them fast whenever a model within 6" discards or uses a SS. On the back, they have a "normal" melee that does 2/3/5 damage with Ml 5 and a Dismember trigger to generate corpse markers. The arguably more important trigger is that when shield bearers fail the attack, they can declare a crow ram trigger, with the crow built in, to deal 1 damage anyway. They have a Ml 6 attack that simply does 1 damage and pushes the target up to 2" in any direction. lastly they have a 0 that gives them either +2 DF or a plus flip to their damage flips until the start of their next activation. Shield bearers will essentially be good Df and Wp 6 instead of their printed Df 4 and Wp 6--I rarely find myself thinking about the plus flip option. The shenanigans you can pull with Vigor are pretty obscene for scheme running or getting essentially a flurry as a byproduct of using SS as you would normally, e.g. for Reva or your henchmen. What makes this particularly good is that it counts when models discard SS, so if someone has an instant kill trigger, such as Misaki, the SS discarded to keep a model alive counts for triggering Vigor.

The Soulbound upgrades only pertain to these guys unless you play Draugr. The rare 2 one lets you discard a card to gain a SS when the shield bearer is finally killed. The other give the shield bearers finish the job or, on being killed, force the killing model to take a TN 14 Df duel or face a non-cheatable 2/3/4 damage. You will probably want the SS one by default, though the other two have good uses depending on your then current situation.

The box comes with 3, and I would probably only run 2 normally given their 6 SS cost. 3 can be cool, but the fast gimmick loses some effectiveness since few strategies score Turn 1 and very few schemes that can score Turn 1 will actually score Turn 1 due to shield bearers. It certainly helps, but the diminishing returns seem too great to run 3.

50 SS Core—25Ss or 26SS

1.     Reva with Guises of Death, Blood Mark/Litany of the Fallen, Decaying Aura

2.     Carrion Emissary with MLH--11SS

3.     8 SS cost henchmen + 2 SS in upgrades--10SS

As the next two paragraphs will indicate, I pretty much glue the decaying aura card to Reva when running her. Once I hit a model, I don’t want any damage prevention. Reva is a cannon and will often need to perform as such effectively for most of her game, otherwise you wouldn’t be running her. I can’t emphasize how much a Turn 1 master or henchmen kill has influenced a game positively for me because my opponent could not prevent me from hitting them and then could not prevent the damage. The no healing aura is nice if you think healing prevention will be useful—e.g. you can’t finish off a Hard to Kill master or henchmen and the opposing crew has healing. I don’t really play around the no healing aura, however, and hire decaying aura to deny prevention flips.

Reva will want Litany against crews with reduction abilities, a decision you’ll generally make on a faction to faction decision and/or if you have reason to suspect your opponent will run a key model(s) with reduction, e.g. Izamu. If I suspect my opponent may run a crew with a key model or big model as the sole model with reduction, I might run Litany to ensure I can kill it without training my resources too heavily. Izamu takes 2 AP and two severe cards to kill with Litany vs. a combination of 3 AP and potentially a 0 to get through Armor +2. The extra SS spent in hiring will more than pay for itself in efficiency if it eliminates even just one model an activation early to deny future AP and potential VP scoring. If the opposing crew only has a bunch for Armor +1 models, Litany is still good because it’s more efficient to use the Litany trigger than discarding corpse markers that may not replenish or may deny future attacks—the only caveat is that if you only anticipate 1 model with Armor +1 or 2 scheme runner models with Armor +1, I would probably drop Litany as the opportunity cost may be unfavorable.

Blood Mark should used as the “default” upgrade over Litany because it allows Reva to solo threaten models. I mention it second because while having the “undeniable” Reva cannon is nice, taking it consistently denies the 1SS for hiring which could mean the difference between a necropunk vs. crooligan, another more useful upgrade, etc. When in doubt, run Blood Mark because at worst Reva will have a 18.3621" threat range after using 1 AP to push her summoned corpse candle, leaving her 2 AP and her 0 to hit people. While not ideal, Blood Mark allows Reva by herself to threaten people for a respectable range.

I rarely consider any other set of upgrades for Reva. There have been times I’ve looked at Spare Parts, but I consistently pass over it because 8s and 13s are big numbers for Reva—13 generally ensures you hit something, and 8 is a sweet number to hit most of your TNs. I haven’t experimented with other upgrades, leaders specific or not, but I haven’t really felt the need to because Blood mark is generally what I want and Litany, even when relatively marginal, is usually a better choice.

I took out the sample crews because I now think they limit the thought process behind Reva’s greatest strength: being a strong pocket pick. You can categorize Reva as a high damage dealer, consistent damage dealer, mobile cannon, etc., but she is not difficult to counter or to exploit, particularly in tournament settings, if your opponent anticipates you playing Reva. The sample crews anticipated running Reva in a generalist sense, which I do not believe she is well suited to, given the faction resources (read: models) available to her. You should almost always be fine tuning the remaining 24SS/25SS to what will help get you the edge in the tournament match (read: time limit) or what will most efficiently win with Reva better than any other Resser master. Reva’s summoning is by and large terrible compared to the other Resser masters, so if you need activation control quickly, you’re unlikely to get it barring you successfully kill multiple models early. If you need high mobility, you’re sacrificing the crew’s killing ability if you run 2x Shield Bearers for fast tricks. Pick Reva because you anticipate her being a good counter to what your opponent will bring given the strat/scheme pool and/or the terrain favors her over other master options—she’s not a particularly good generalist and I suggest not playing her as such.

I have, however, included the Carrion Emissary and a 10 SS henchmen set up as core. The reasoning for the former is because Shards of Kythera is amazing with Reva. With few ways to generate corpse markers “up field” beyond killing enemy models, the mindless zombie is great. Being able to run in and engage ranged icon models is critical to preventing a pre-emptive My Little Helper use and position for Reva set up. The activation control is icing on the cake if you can assert tempo control as well. Additionally, the turn you put down two sets of shards can really turn the tide of a game by wasting opposing big model AP. It’s a great feeling when you double shard to force two henchmen to spend 4 AP pushing/walking around the markers, wasting 20% of their AP to beat out a 1SS investment and 0 Action.

For the latter, it may seem strange not to name a model, but it’s because you’ll want to choose the henchmen that best denies or complements your scheme running. My most common hire is Datsue-ba, with the next favored hires being Philip & the Nanny, Vincent St. Clair, or Sybelle. Datsue-ba can contribute to activation control with seishin, and with MLH can really work the factory by summoning an extra seishin or making a spirit much faster with a double walk out of activation—Jakuuna moving 16” in one turn with incorporeal is usually enough to get the 1-2 opposing models I need in her clutches. Datsue-ba is also a good candidate for fast shenanigans with shield bearers when she uses a SS to trigger Vigor and increase her chance of summoning a seishin for an 8.

In previous iterations of this post, I wrote about my dislike for Vincent. While I still think he’s usually a marginal choice, he’s not bad for the surprise factor. Additionally, his fast shenanigans tricks with shield bearers are likely to be better given his Deal with Death upgrade and Corpse Bloat, which gives him Df and Wp attack options. The card draw aura is also a potential plus, especially to mitigate opponents that bring anti-corpse counter tech.

Philip is a strange hire. He’ll usually run Haunting Cries with Corpse Bloat for the same, albeit slightly worse, fast shenanigans options as Vincent with shield bearers. However, Philip can also run Take Back the Night, useful if you run a horror/spirit centric list. I would rather run Corpse Bloat for the Df/Wp options, but Philip can trigger the card draw on his own, shield bearers can conditionally do so, and if I’m running another horror/spirit, I have multiple opportunities to draw. If I choose to run a dead doxy, I can deny scheme marker schemes much more easily. Philip as a result is a much more situational piece, and I’d prefer Datsue-ba if I’m not sure I want Philip.

Shield bearers have been mentioned multiple times because they’re my preferred scheme runners for Reva. They’re hardier than rotten belles, can get +1 Wk from the Emissary, and a Turn 1 Fast puts them in position to Turn 1 set up my schemes more often than not, giving me more breathing room Turn 2. I would alternatively run 2x rotten belles or 1x rotten belle and 1x nurse, depending on the strat/scheme pool and if I anticipate an elite crew—paralyzing a big model for 1 turn is often the same as killing it.

If I decide to run a more mainstream scheme runner, I tend to choose the crooligan. From the shadows allows me to counter trappers, katanaka snipers, etc. so that I can mitigate being shot from afar before I’m ready to counter attack. They are also great ways to deliver a corpse because people generally want to kill a crooligan to prevent it from clogging up more important models.

Lastly, I often find myself hiring at least one other enforcer, because I generally play Reva when I know I’ll need to kill to get VP or assert a VP lead in time. Jakuuna combos nicely with Datsue-ba after using My Little Helper, and brings a lure to make up for dropping a belle. The threat of taking two separate ticks of damage for 3 total (glue unnerving aura to her) often drives opponents to pre-emptively attack her, costing resources for manipulative and cheating to power through incorporeal. No model is too important to never die, and Jakuuna is no exception, especially if she’s played the great distraction piece I often use her as.

General Thoughts for 50 SS

I don't normally like using SS early into my games, but an early stone can really help for positioning and early, relatively undeniable scheme running when running shield bearers. In a Reva crew, this works just dandy because she'll want to field generally elite units, and shield bearers are pretty elite for resser minions. Shield bearers are appropriately costed as hires, and will be a regular inclusion for me until I find a more efficient set of models to field. I would run 1-2 shield bearers instead of 3--13 SS is a reasonable price for 6 AP Turn 1, but 19 SS for 9 AP is unlikely to be efficient given the opportunity cost of hiring the 3rd shield bearer instead of another model or better upgrades and starting SS pool. I'm discussing shield bearers first because they're the box minions for Reva. 

The reason I'm fine with spending a stone to get 2 extra AP is because the stones are mainly for: (1) card cycling between turns; (2) triggering Vigor; (3) damage prevention; and (4) initiative flips. The henchmen I would run with her generally don’t need SS except for occasional damage prevention, assuming I still need them; the henchmen and enforcers are mostly support--they can be killed once they've gotten their job done or their support is to hold a fighting line.

With the model choices from above, I don't plan on needing specific suits often. Getting 7SS is fairly easy--I want her to fight Turn 1, and extra SS means better card cycling and manipulation to ensure Reva can fire her laser. Shield bearers can also generally return 1-2 SS via the rare 2 Soulbound upgrade, so I’m not desperate for 7SS when I hire them because at least one is usually killed.

The risk of running Guises of Death is that the enemy crew deploys and moves so that the corpse candle cannot reach anyone for Reva's purposes, but in such a situation Reva and her crew should have plenty of breathing room.

I feel Bete Noire is inconsistent, and Reva needs someone who can consistently deal damage when they're on the table, but she’s not a bad pick in elite crew battles. RN can be gimped, and Izamu is slow, but they generally set up Reva well with their first round of attacks, which is generally why I’d hire them. Plus, they synergize with the various henchmen I run via keyword, whereas Bete does not. 

With more play testing, I'll iron out what my favored models are. Reva plays like a reverse Seamus. Seamus’ crew goes 100% from Turn 1 to set itself up, usually Seamus himself, to score schemes early while trying to assert field advantage. Reva generally goes 100% from Turn 1 to set her crew up to score schemes once opposition has been eliminated. They’re both unorthodox, and that suits my play style. Their differences are just pronounced enough that I can say there are situations I would generally prefer Seamus over Reva and vice versa.

Thoughts on Strategies and Schemes

Strategies

I'm skipping over the core rulebook strategies and schemes because more people seem focused on the Gaining Ggrounds pool rather than the core rulebook pool--fair enough since GG is the tournament pool and available for free.

Reva at first glance certainly prefers the killy and center area based strategies, so Extraction, Headhunter, Guard the Stash, and Collect the Bounty. It'll be easier for Reva to quickly position herself for four attacks per activation, dying models drop corpse markers closer to each other, etc. That's not to say she can't play Interference, but there are likely more ideal masters than Reva.

Of the above four, I think Guard the Stash and Collect the Bounty will be easier for her, with Collect the Bounty being easier. Why? Because CtB is a competitive strategy that only lets one person score each turn, and Reva should have an advantage in killing things Turn 2, allowing Reva to establish a lead position she has to maintain rather than fight to obtain. It's also relatively easy to tool for this, since Reva is a capable range killer--running belles for lure keeps the minions relatively safe, and between Reva, the Emissary, and the enforcer of choice, 1-2 models should die to establish a lead for CtB starting Turn 2, especially if Turn 1 saw Reva's crew killing a model. There will be issues for Reva in some match ups, but that's why you run an enforcer with an appropriate mode of attack--Reva and the Emissary both have Ca based attacks, so if there's anti-Ca tech on the other team, run an enforcer that uses normal Ml or Sh. But, anti-Ca tech tends to come on henchmen and enforcers, so I would focus on the minions that don't have such defenses first. 

Guard the Stash is 2nd place for Reva's preferred strategies because it allows both players to score at the same time, meaning Reva and her enforcers will not always be able to deny VP. But, Reva still has a strong change of VP denial by focusing her attacks on models next to one of the stash markers--her 18" range and large base make it difficult for most sturdy models to avoid LoS, and a corpse marker in LoS of the model will usually guarantee Reva can reach with 3" vs. the 2" max distance to score the strategy. Opponents tend to daisy chain models or commit a sturdy model to the stash marker they're less focused on. Reva will often have to do the same, but her play style favors this, as she is fighting to full effect from relative safety--forcing your opponent to play to your strategy should generally pay off in the long run. Your sturdy model or minions will have to survive at the other stash marker, but if you're running shield bearers and/or putting your other enforcer there, there's a more than decent staying and fighting force there.

Next, I think Reva would probably prefer Extraction. Both players can score simultaneously, and denial is difficult given the generous requirements for scoring. However, 6 inches from the Extraction marker at the farthest point is within 18" of the edge of your deployment zone in Standard Deployment, the furthest away deployment zone for this strategy, putting enemy models in range of Lure and Reva's effective range from her own deployment zone. Additionally, Reva's crew doesn't have to spend AP taking interact actions, which will generally be more difficult considering Reva can't summon significant models and prefers to fight. When actually playing Extraction, Reva will essentially create a circle of death between herself, the Carrion Emissary, her 11 SS enforcer of choice, and possibly a third enforcer if replacing the henchmen--I would strongly consider replacing the henchmen for a good fighter and switching the minions to belles and upgrades exclusively unless the schemes required a scheme runner. If the extraction marker ever moves towards Reva, it's a huge advantage because Reva almost ensures she doesn't have to move for the rest of the game and all of her crew models drop corpses, meaning their positions are all potential locations Reva can attack from and discard corpses for plus damage. Reva generally won't be denying extraction, but she sees a lot of benefit in fighting over the extraction marker because she will very consistently have targets from Turn 2 and on--she should consistently have targets around halfway through Turn 1, but an opponent can always play around activation control or go for schemes first, strategy second. This strategy would make me consider slotting in Bete the most--she's 8 SS and an upgrade puts her in the same price point as the henchmen. 

Headhunter is second to last, and it's kind of a trap for Reva. Yes, Reva enjoys when killing things leads to VP, but she prefers not to use her elite crew's AP to walk and pick up head markers. It's not that she can't, but she will more often cannot unlike the more preferred strategies. Fortunately, the head marker's location is the killer's choice within 3" of the killed model (or sacrificing/sacrificed models), so you can always put it fully within 3" of a corpse marker, setting up a future attack from Reva. For this strategy, it's hard to tool Reva's crew because she still needs capable killers to supplement her own combat abilities, and she needs models that can run around and pick up head markers. Datsue-ba would be my henchmen of choice for this strategy barring the schemes disfavor her more--she provides activation control so you can manipulate vulnerable models to set up head markers for yourself, she can summon additional units, can help models pick up head markers with her 0 or herself, and she can help prevent your crew's heads from dropping with her seishin summons. This strategy would make me consider running Blood Mark--I'd lose Litany if I figured the other crew doesn't have significant damage reduction, Decaying if I thought I'd be playing a high minion model count crew, and Guises last if I thought I really needed both Decaying and Litany. Bete might be a contender here, but probably not-it's cheaper to run a 7 SS pool instead and use SS to give shield bearers fast.

Last is Interference. Reva likes having elite crews, which generally means she doesn't run a high model count. I think the only way to play this and have a chance of getting VP is to play a heavier than usual denial game. Reva will almost definitely want Blood Mark, using the same logic for replacement as in Headhunter, and she will want to send sacrificial models to contest the other quadrants and drop corpse markers for her to mitigate their ability to claim two quadrants. I might hire 3x shield bearers for this just to have a little more staying power outside of my enforcer and henchmen. Blood Mark gives Reva options in how she denies the strategy--she can push into engagements or push out to balance qualifying models to claim any given quadrant. The upside is that putting Reva in one quadrant by herself won't be unreasonable--on a moment's notice she can attack anyone within 17.1811" of herself by summoning a candle within 8" plus a 1.1811" base, a blood mark push for 5", and a 3" reach from the corpse candle. Doing so invites people to attack her or contest the quadrant, and Reva can contest them well enough with the candle walking to engage or Reva killing the model(s). 

Schemes

I won't go scheme by scheme, because choosing your two out of five is much more situation dependent than the strategy. Reva, as with the strategies, prefers schemes that score VP by her killing things and without using AP to interact. So, Quick Murder or its equivalent is generally more preferable to Mark for Death, though this could change depending on the terrain setup, enemy crew composition, and strategy. Her "average" schemes would be the position based ones, such as Inspection. Her "weak" schemes would be scheme marker heavy schemes such as Undercover Breakthrough, Catch and Release, etc. This does not mean non-killy schemes are bad--Inspection is not particularly bad for Reva, because she can still fight from a table edge, but she's not particularly great at it because she has to commit a model to a similar position on the other side of the board and keep it alive or keep replacing it with another model. Undercover Entourage is actually a good position based scheme for Reva, because she can move 21.1811" in one activation, which almost puts her in the enemy deployment zone in standard deployment--if she moved previously in any of the other Turns towards the center line, she's almost a shoe in for 3 VP. 

Scheme running is one of Reva's weaknesses, and that's why I put at least one dedicated scheme runner in my list if I’m considering a very “runny” scheme, such as Leave Your Mark—the scheme runner is there to get you 3 VP on one scheme so that Reva and the rest of the crew only have to contest the other 9 VP. Even if the dedicated scheme runner dies early or its efforts are contested in multiple turns, it should buy better time for Reva and the gang to deny opponent VP and assert a lead.

Faction Match ups

 

(Damage Reduction Heavy Factions) Arcanists—Generally speaking, Reva will probably want Litany, because there are a number of popular models with armor or some form of reduction, e.g. Arcane shield.

(Shooting Heavy Factions) Gremlins, Guild, and Outcasts—Reva will generally want Blood Mark to stay relatively safe. Outcasts will sometimes be the exception—need to balance anticipating damage reduction vs. ability to position corpses.

(Melee Heavy Factions/Glass Cannons) Neverborn, TT, Ressers—Reva will generally want Blood Mark because these factions tend not to have too much damage reduction. They also tend to have tricks to move you to them, so having an 18”+ threat range can mitigate some of the larger threats, e.g. belle Lures.

Guild—Reva will generally want Blood Mark to stay relatively safe. If the strat/scheme pool looks like fighting is inevitable and/or you anticipate the opponent running sufficient damage reduction, run Litany.

Sample Crew

I previously took out all the sample crews, but I'm including a fairly vanilla one that can handle a variety of situations. At least in my opinion, Reva caters more towards killy schemes over scheme runner ones, and can handle position based ones decently well. This crew is balanced to have some fighters with set up for those fighters.

 

1.     Reva—6/7 SS starting

a.      Guises of Death

b.     Blood Mark/Litany of the Fallen

c.      Decaying Aura

2.     Datsue-ba

a.      Spirit Whispers

b.     My Little Helper

3.     Carrion Emissary

a.      My Little Helper

4.     2x Shield bearers

5.     2x Rotten Belles

The easily flexible SS in the list are the shield bearers, with one rotten belle being spare-able as well. Datsue-ba should swap out for a model of your choice depending on what minions you run.

I would consider flexing in Archie, Killjoy, Dead Rider, or Anna Lovelace for various match ups. Archie is generally good as an effective beater and can position corpse markers and tool box his upgrades to some extent—you’d drop both shield bearers and a belle to put in Archie with upgrades (can load him up with both 0 cost upgrades) and a crooligan, dropping Datsue-ba for Sybelle for belle movement and manipulation (I recommend Bleeding Tongue and the not-oft used Not Too Banged Up for the potential surprise extra Luring power). KJ swaps much the same. Dead Rider should go naked so you can get the extra rotten belle or pick up unnerving aura if you drop litany so you don’t need to go with a crooligan. Anna Lovelace is included because Reva will have a tough time against crews that push or place a lot, plus she can bring some pretty crazy manipulation and has a good ranged attack.

The idea with the above swaps was to start the game with 6 SS assuming I needed Litany, so if I went with Blood Mark I could either start with 7 SS or get an extra SS in Upgrade(s).

[Khaiden]

Great read Joe,

Glad you included Philip and the Nanny in one of your lists. Philip combined with Blood Mark on Reva is super strong in a scheme marker heavy game. Especially when the opponent took schemes that makes them travel into your part of the table to place markers.
That Blood Mark 1AP pram push of 7" and then a free 0 to remove an enemy scheme marker and make it into a corpse-marker is bonkers.. You basically force the opponent to skip schemes like Leave your mark and Undercover breakthrough when adding Philip to your crew.

Im a big fan of Bette Noire in Reva crews. Revas Corpse Candles are amazing with her, they basically let you unbury Beté in a way not possible before. Reva summons one 8” towards where you want bete to pop. (reach of 8” and 30mm from the base) When the corpse candle later activates its slow but since their “kill them self ability” is a 0 they can walk 4” and pop Bete out. With Betes 1” melee range you can position Bete for a flurry about 14,4” away from Reva or 22,4” charge-threat.
Since her meleerange is only 1” making it easier to positon her right is very valuable.

Since Bete can interact when she comes out you can easely do alot of scheming with her with the help of this positioning. Reading through all the schemes from GG16 with  her new sneeky positioning she can help do them all except public demonstration and Occupy their turf.

Here are two sample lists, with Beté Of course

- Schememarker heavy with important positioning -

Reve  (6stones)
- Blood Mark
- Guise of Death
Anna Lovelace
-My little helper
Philip and the Nanny
-Haunting Cries
Bete Noire
Shieldbearer x2
Crooligan x 2  (or swith to a belle)

For killy ive actually played this list and tabled the Vicks in a close deploy squatters rights game.  (yes its abit silly but worked)

Reva (4 stones)
- Guises of Death
- Blood mark
Anna Lovelace
- My little helper
Killjoy
Bete Noire
Shieldbearer x2
Rotten belle

Cheers! and Joe i Hope you give Bete a try!
 

[Kadeton]

On 9/24/2016 at 1:31 PM, benjoewoo said:

Vincent St. Clair with Spare Parts and Corpse Bloat--14SS

Not sure what you're going for here... Spare Parts is Leader-only, and even if he could take it, both it and Corpse Bloat cost 2ss so the total would be 12ss.

I've had the most success running Vincent with My Little Helper and Deal With Death, in the scheme runner/debuffer/ranged damage role. I think he's probably a little bit better with the Spirit-focused summoners (Kirai and Molly) than with Reva - he got on very well in my last Molly game.

[TheJoyInGaming]

Are you allowed to 0 the Shieldbearers twice for DF 8? I thought that +2 would not stack because of the ability name. 

Also does Pram work with pushes?

Blood Mark has some great uses with certain models and especially terrain. If you are playing a board with alot of Blocking Terrain it can be very useful to get the mask trigger and push a beater behind a building to shoot at models hiding away. Also Blood Mark a candle and 0 for its buff to attacking a model. Since Reva often activates late your opponent should be low on cards so then they have to decide if they want to be attacked by Reva with + to attack flips or sacrifice their one of their remaining cards. 

A brief note about Guises. You don't have to use it for an alpha strike. If the opponent sees it coming they will just kill the candle and you'll have an out of place corpse marker. Often times i now place the candle in what i think will be a critical juncture, in the path of a scheme runner, or in a choke point. That way when it dies i can ensure Reva can artillery strike there if needed.

A brief note about Beyond Death. The regeneration is good. Also, just because you can trigger it doesn't mean you should. Its intended so that you can mop up and get opportunity kills from fleeing or hiding models. The charge function is meant to be as corner case as Guises allowing you to shoot even if engaged. 

[TheJoyInGaming]

Also great write up! Its nice to have a tactica in one place.

Edited September 28, 2016 by TheJoyInGaming
Edited for proper emoticon

[solkan]

18 minutes ago, TheJoyInGaming said:

Are you allowed to 0 the Shieldbearers twice for DF 8? I thought that +2 would not stack because of the ability name.

It doesn't stack because it's a non-numeric Condition.

Quote

Not Today:  This model gains +2 Df.

If you performed the (0) Sword and Board twice somehow, you could have both To the Death and Not Today on the same model, but it's not possible to have multiple instances of the same non-numeric Condition on a model due to the Stacking rules.  (If a model has Not Today on it, and you attempt to apply a second instance, you hit this part of the Conditions rules:

Quote

Conditions presented without a value in their name do not stack, and a model that would get a second instance of a Condition simply ignores it (the second instance is not applied).

So, no, it's not possible to get a Shield Bearer fro Df 4 to Df 8 by trying to perform Sword and Board multiple times to stack Not Today.

[Khaiden]

4 hours ago, TheJoyInGaming said:

Also does Pram work with pushes?

Yes. the wording is "Pram: When this model is moved or pushed by another friendly model, it may be moved or pushed 2 additional inches."

[benjoewoo]

5 hours ago, solkan said:

It doesn't stack because it's a non-numeric Condition.

If you performed the (0) Sword and Board twice somehow, you could have both To the Death and Not Today on the same model, but it's not possible to have multiple instances of the same non-numeric Condition on a model due to the Stacking rules.  (If a model has Not Today on it, and you attempt to apply a second instance, you hit this part of the Conditions rules:

So, no, it's not possible to get a Shield Bearer fro Df 4 to Df 8 by trying to perform Sword and Board multiple times to stack Not Today.

Edited original post for accuracy. Looks like I was a dirty cheater in one of my games--the Df 8 in a game I pulled with one of my shield bearers didn't come into play in a duel against Nellie, who targets Wp almost exclusively except for Phiona, but it might have deterred him having Phiona attack me.

6 hours ago, Kadeton said:

Not sure what you're going for here... Spare Parts is Leader-only, and even if he could take it, both it and Corpse Bloat cost 2ss so the total would be 12ss.

I've had the most success running Vincent with My Little Helper and Deal With Death, in the scheme runner/debuffer/ranged damage role. I think he's probably a little bit better with the Spirit-focused summoners (Kirai and Molly) than with Reva - he got on very well in my last Molly game.

Forgot it's leader only for Spare Parts. My recent games have been box only for a slow grow league, and I haven't actually been able to play the above crews. It's why the box analysis is so long and the Crews section is so short--I haven't had a chance to run them on the table recently. I also don't use Spare Parts normally, but thought it might be nice in this to make Vincent more useful.

5 hours ago, TheJoyInGaming said:

Are you allowed to 0 the Shieldbearers twice for DF 8? I thought that +2 would not stack because of the ability name. 

Also does Pram work with pushes?

Blood Mark has some great uses with certain models and especially terrain. If you are playing a board with alot of Blocking Terrain it can be very useful to get the mask trigger and push a beater behind a building to shoot at models hiding away. Also Blood Mark a candle and 0 for its buff to attacking a model. Since Reva often activates late your opponent should be low on cards so then they have to decide if they want to be attacked by Reva with + to attack flips or sacrifice their one of their remaining cards. 

A brief note about Guises. You don't have to use it for an alpha strike. If the opponent sees it coming they will just kill the candle and you'll have an out of place corpse marker. Often times i now place the candle in what i think will be a critical juncture, in the path of a scheme runner, or in a choke point. That way when it dies i can ensure Reva can artillery strike there if needed.

A brief note about Beyond Death. The regeneration is good. Also, just because you can trigger it doesn't mean you should. Its intended so that you can mop up and get opportunity kills from fleeing or hiding models. The charge function is meant to be as corner case as Guises allowing you to shoot even if engaged. 

Blood Mark has its uses. But, it's not likely to be a core upgrade I take, because Decaying and Littany together more or less make Vincent irrelevant for Reva herself--his debuff applies to everyone, but at 8 SS to give essentially Carrion Emissary a more effective attack, I don't think it's worth the extra 4 SS over just ensuring Reva's attacks go through at 3/4/5--4/5/6 is the same if they have Armor +1. Carrion Emissary will serve different roles than just hitting people depending on the situation, whereas Reva is pretty much always going to use her non 0 AP to kill stuff to enable the rest of the crew.

Beyond Death similarly may see play, but is unlikely to see regular play over Guises of Death for me at least because it doesn't offer as great of a threat to the opponent. The extra corpse candle is an extra activation, and you can deploy it in a safe area out of LoS for an extra activation with a potential 9.1811" reach for setting up Reva Turn 2. The text regarding using SotF while engaged is largely irrelevant to me given my play style--I'm paying 1 SS to keep an extra card Turn 1, have more activation control, and maintain a potential undeniable zone of control between Turns 1 and 2. I would use Beyond Death if I was forced to deploy closer to my opponent, or I suspected Reva would have to get into the thick of things more often than normal. The Regeneration +1 isn't going to matter much for Reva, given her squishy stat line for most beaters.

 

[TheJoyInGaming]

4 hours ago, benjoewoo said:

Blood Mark has its uses. But, it's not likely to be a core upgrade I take, because Decaying and Littany together more or less make Vincent irrelevant for Reva herself--his debuff applies to everyone, but at 8 SS to give essentially Carrion Emissary a more effective attack, I don't think it's worth the extra 4 SS over just ensuring Reva's attacks go through at 3/4/5--4/5/6 is the same if they have Armor +1. Carrion Emissary will serve different roles than just hitting people depending on the situation, whereas Reva is pretty much always going to use her non 0 AP to kill stuff to enable the rest of the crew.

Beyond Death similarly may see play, but is unlikely to see regular play over Guises of Death for me at least because it doesn't offer as great of a threat to the opponent. The extra corpse candle is an extra activation, and you can deploy it in a safe area out of LoS for an extra activation with a potential 9.1811" reach for setting up Reva Turn 2. The text regarding using SotF while engaged is largely irrelevant to me given my play style--I'm paying 1 SS to keep an extra card Turn 1, have more activation control, and maintain a potential undeniable zone of control between Turns 1 and 2. I would use Beyond Death if I was forced to deploy closer to my opponent, or I suspected Reva would have to get into the thick of things more often than normal. The Regeneration +1 isn't going to matter much for Reva, given her squishy stat line for most beaters.

 

I agree with everything you've said. I was merely adding because if this does become a Tactica it would be best to have all options fully explained. I also prefer Guises to Beyond Death atm though i will continue to flip flop between them. I do however prefer Blood Mark to Litany though. I don't play against armor much and the flexibility of Blood Mark and being a little less reliant on corpse markers is just gravy.

[TheJoyInGaming]

5 hours ago, Khaiden said:

Yes. the wording is "Pram: When this model is moved or pushed by another friendly model, it may be moved or pushed 2 additional inches."

Awesome! I just purchased Philip and can't wait to try him out!

[benjoewoo]

In my local meta one player often plays Von Schill for his casual 50 SS games and really enjoys taking trapper across factions. He's also playing Arcanists in slow grow, so as we expand, he'll probably take gamins or other models that have armor.

One model with Armor +1 and 5 Wds will essentially require 3 attacks from Reva unless she hits at least one moderate or pitches at least one corpse marker--I'd rather save the third AP, moderate damage card, and/or corpse marker if I can help it for 2 SS. Unless I know I won't see damage reduction for melee attacks or Ca actions, I can't afford to not take it because Reva really needs to kill a model a turn or at least do a lot of damage to a beefier model. Reva will often want to fight the beefier models as well, because she's the primary fighter--everyone else sets her up really.

For my build, Pram is unlikely to see a ton of action--I don't run a lot of movement manipulation other than slotting in Blood Mark or using my belle's lure on Philip. Possible, but schemes would have to really favor the idea. 

I may beef up uses on Blood Mark as I gain more experience with Reva in the current environment, but my view is that if the scheme pool supports tons of scheme markers, I would probably consider Seamus or Molly first. Seamus puts down more markers than Reva with the Bag, and Molly can literally summon markers--plus Molly probably uses Philip better than Reva in such a situation. Philip is there because he can use his AP to shoot or set up a sweet 0 chain when he's not eating scheme markers for card draw--Reva plays with a 5 card hand due to her summoning mechanic. He is unlikely to move much as I see that list, because Haunting Cries says he generally shouldn't get closer than 10" to the closest enemy model. 

[Kadeton]

7 hours ago, benjoewoo said:

Forgot it's leader only for Spare Parts. My recent games have been box only for a slow grow league, and I haven't actually been able to play the above crews. It's why the box analysis is so long and the Crews section is so short--I haven't had a chance to run them on the table recently. I also don't use Spare Parts normally, but thought it might be nice in this to make Vincent more useful.

I've really enjoyed running Spare Parts on Reva, actually - she and her crew generate so many Corpses that summoning a Rogue is entirely possible on turn 2, and more than one over the course of the game is very likely.

I'm perpetually surprised that so many people feel Vincent isn't useful. He's such good value!

[benjoewoo]

I don't think it's necessarily that he's a terrible model on paper. The issue is that his primary form of damage dealing does not favor how Reva will want to initially build her crews. Looking past that, the manipulation he brings to the table just isn't as good as what other henchmen can do for Resser crews. Resser henchmen are more or less expected to bring good manipulation, so having the 0 to prevent reduction and prevention is expected (not the particular text, but some form of manipulation on the enemy, usually a 0), and Vincent has something that can be good, but will often just duplicate a combination of upgrades for half his cost--he lets other models capitalize on it, but is that worth the added 4 SS in cost? Considering I could get different effects with similar damage that doesn't have a chance of shooting my own people, I don't he'll often make the cut unless I find later I've just been missing out on an aspect of his play.

Entirely possible, but atm I can't see it. 

[TheJoyInGaming]

1 hour ago, Kadeton said:

I've really enjoyed running Spare Parts on Reva, actually - she and her crew generate so many Corpses that summoning a Rogue is entirely possible on turn 2, and more than one over the course of the game is very likely.

I'm perpetually surprised that so many people feel Vincent isn't useful. He's such good value!

Do you run anything for corpse generation besides Shieldbearers? I've been interested in trying Spare Parts with Reva but haven't gotten around to it yet. 

[Fetid Strumpet]

Emissary and Anna do well. As does Philip if there is a scheme heavy pool.

[Kadeton]

13 minutes ago, TheJoyInGaming said:

Do you run anything for corpse generation besides Shieldbearers? I've been interested in trying Spare Parts with Reva but haven't gotten around to it yet. 

So far for me, my backup Corpse generator has been Anna. The Emissary would make things even easier, but despite having several legal proxies I don't have its cards so haven't run it.

So, basically what @Fetid Strumpet said.

[clockworkspide]

I've never really gotten anything from Anna corpse-wise.  Her Gravity Well's been occasionally useful, though.

[Kadeton]

1 hour ago, benjoewoo said:

I don't think it's necessarily that he's a terrible model on paper. The issue is that his primary form of damage dealing does not favor how Reva will want to initially build her crews. Looking past that, the manipulation he brings to the table just isn't as good as what other henchmen can do for Resser crews. Resser henchmen are more or less expected to bring good manipulation, so having the 0 to prevent reduction and prevention is expected (not the particular text, but some form of manipulation on the enemy, usually a 0), and Vincent has something that can be good, but will often just duplicate a combination of upgrades for half his cost--he lets other models capitalize on it, but is that worth the added 4 SS in cost? Considering I could get different effects with similar damage that doesn't have a chance of shooting my own people, I don't he'll often make the cut unless I find later I've just been missing out on an aspect of his play.

The thing that he brings for me, an area in which I find the other Resser Henchmen are lacking, is survival. Yeah, the Valedictorian is tough, but Vincent is much harder to kill. To all intents and purposes, he's basically immune to multiple attacks - if you Charge, Flurry, Rapid Fire or Furious Cast, you should only ever get one attack on him (hit or miss!) before he's out of range, out of sight, or in cover. Add in damage prevention, automatic self-healing as other models die, My Little Helper's targeting restriction for a turn and the ability to push out of engagement with Deal With Death... he's an absolute bastard to remove from the table, or indeed even to stop him being exactly where he wants to be at any given moment. His evasive hardiness makes him basically the ultimate scheme runner and harasser.

On top of that, At Peace is a huge debuff. You say it's expected for Resser Henchmen to manipulate the enemy, but shutting down all prevention and reduction is on a totally different level to, for example, shutting down triggers, denying Walk actions, or forcing Wp duels. Sure, those other options can be incredibly useful in specific circumstances, but At Peace is (IMO) the most broadly powerful debuff available to Resser Henchmen - your opponent is always going to have some soulstone users that need taking down a peg, and it's pretty likely they'll bring some Armor, Incorporeal, or other damage-reduction abilities as well. One (0) action turns every model in your crew into a credible threat.

I tend not to find him in situations where he's having to randomise onto friendly models. It's rare that the entire enemy crew is engaged, and the kind of models that hang back from the action are often also the kind that don't appreciate being shot several times with a crossbow. His evasiveness means he can get through to those backfield models very easily, either killing them or forcing them to withdraw their support from the front-line fighters.

If you think of him as being just a crossbow and a (0) action, yeah... he's probably not worth the cost (though he's still damn close, IMO). But he's so much more than that.

[TheTrans]

Definitely given me some food for thought boys!!

Just jotted this up in my lunch break, seems of a very similar opinion to most of you.

http://fools-of-fate.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/revisionist-thoughts-on-reva.html

[benjoewoo]

He and I use many of the same tactics, and view Vincent very similarly--an upgrade platform who can occasionally shoot. 

My opinion of Vincent is rising--his ability to target Df, Wp, or Wk with Corpse Bloat equipped makes him a real variety pick. At 9 Wds he's not likely to die at range  from most single model activations, and a stone for a mask almost always ensures he can get out of LoS or range for any follow up attacks. However, his card otherwise still leaves me wanting--the Corpse Bloat into Fast trick can be nice, but it's gimmicky for marginal benefit compared to another henchmen doing something better. Vincent gets me fast and card cycle assuming the Emissary converts the corpse to a scheme marker while Datsue-ba gets me 2 seishin and fast, giving me extra distance and activation control. Philip can competently compete if the shield bearers drop a corpse marker via dismember (any crow) and Philip uses his 0, usually irrelevant in early Turns, to get the trigger and eat scheme markers for 4 cards drawn, 2 cycled. 

[benjoewoo]

Not a whole lot of updated text. I shortened stuff and removed the original sample crews because I wasn't finding myself actually fielding them all that often. Replaced them with one sample crew that is fairly easy to play with some flexibility to swap small models for larger ones. I have also run the crew and found it at least playable in casual games. In competitive environments I might drop the shield bearers and a belle for Sybelle with both of her specific upgrades and Jaakuna Umube with Unnerving Aura just because the early game is so much more important in timed settings.

Removed the portion I posted about Vigor because I didn't realize there was a previous errata to the card. The errata from "model" to "crew" on the upgrade takes away the idea the leader spends the SS. 

[Mårten]

On 1/31/2017 at 8:13 AM, benjoewoo said:

Not a whole lot of updated text...

 

First off (of?), thank you for this. 
As a fairly new player (only have 5-6 games) who is heavily invested into Ressers and looking to play Reva this is pure gold.

I have asked here, but I always want more input.
Looking for what to purchase to make Reva as competitive as possible.
Here is what I own: 
Reva    
McMourning    
Seamus    
Nicodem

Flesh Construct
3 Canine Remains
Carrion Effigy
5 Mindless Zombies
Carrion Emissary
Rafkin
 

What I'm thinking in terms of buying:
Asura Rotten (seems to be a simple YES. Seems almost a bit OP?)
Yin (fallen out of favor? seems quite good still?)
Datsue-Bae (quite expensive, so if I can run something that I already have would be great)
Bete-Noir (also fallen out of favor?)

I'm still trying to learn how to build lists. So far what I have done is do some reasearch to see sample lists, what works together and maybe just switch out a model if I dont have it.

It seems from your post Sybelle with Rotten Belles is good so that is what I will try when go pick up my painted Reva crew.So your Sample crew but with Sybelle instead of Datsue-ae.

 

Thanks in advance

[benjoewoo]

I've stopped playing for a long while, but I do know some of the models, having seen the previews.

I'm not sure if it's still the trend here, but most of the time (from my perspective) people recommend playing first and then choosing models to purchase. Since models are mostly evergreen, there's not a huge incentive to purchase everything and then figure it out, but rather figure out what you need based on play style and level of competitive play you want and purchasing to taste.

For example, I don't play McM, so I don't need flesh constructs. It is possible getting them won't be "wasteful" if you play McM or you find you like running them for one reason or the other, but when I was playing, I didn't find them fitting how I played at the level I wanted to play.

I ask the play style and competitive level you want to play at first because that sets the beginning, and most important, limitations--(1) money, and (2) tolerance for adjustment.

If you want to play a themed crew for Reva, where you play vincent and the shield bearers, filling the rest of the crew to taste, buy and play whatever gets you the most fulfillment in games, win or lose. There is NOTHING wrong with that because this is a leisure activity. This arguably also stresses money and tolerance for adjustment to a minimum.

If you want to play strictly competitively at high levels, I would probably not play ressers--listen to people who consistently win/place well in hard fought tournaments, e.g. max value podcast, and copy what they do. That'll get you the most bang for your buck and get you the competitive edge. I actually more or less swapped to Arcanists because of my issues with ressers after having tried the "top tier" masters by popular vocal opinion. This stresses money the least and tolerance for adjustment to the max, as you'll often be playing "best of" rather than models you like.

If you want to play competitively as much as you can with ressers, see below. Keep in mind I'm probably fairly outdated, having not played in a while, especially in the context of GG2018. Also, Malifaux is a unique game at least for how rulings are done, because the rules set has some quirks that are, unfortunately, very key to how well certain masters can perform. I'll go over them in detail below, because they affect Reva to varying degrees, but they are: (1) Ht rules; and (2) RAW (rules as worded) vs. RAI (rules as intended).  Playing what ressers do best will moderately stress funds and be a large, though less than strictly competitive play, stress on tolerance for adjustment.

Reva's main strengths are being a cannon equipped for the crew you'll likely face and having one activation, possibly two, tricks that can blindside your opponent's tempo/plan. This does not make her a generalist as I understand the term in Malifaux--she is more favorable in match ups where she can quickly (1-2 activations, or 1-2 turns) eliminate the largest threats on her own, allowing her relatively minimal crew to maximize their AP.

As I noted in the log previously, your crews will tend to be elite ones. This tends to mean you do well on area control type strategies & schemes ("S&S") where your opponent must engage you, as opposed to S&S where activation counts really matter. Keep that in mind when evaluating models--will they directly help you in ensuring you can control the intended situation better than the/an alternative(s)? Keep in mind Reva essentially costs 4-8 SS to play by herself--I would generally consider her favored against Arcanists, but to get to 7SS pool I need 4 (3 cache) plus 5 SS in upgrades between a limited and the 2 SS no-reduction and 2 SS no-SS upgrades. Joss cries if he's against you, but you're giving up a higher end (for resser) model to load up Reva.

I don't recommend swapping sybelle with belles because that list is mostly for fun. It can get your opponent hard if they don't know how to play around it or if their crew is just incapable of dealing with it, but often times the opponent will simply wait for you to disperse your belles and pick you apart from there. It's fun to have 7 Wk belles sprint from deployment to do stuff, but I'm unsure how often that kind of thing matters in that build.

The same kind of goes for Philip & the Nanny, though a little less so because Philip can at least be an anti-scheme runner and can nicely set up Reva's card pool as necessary. However, Philip almost always requires an escort, usually a dead doxy, to maximize his card cycle. That's 14 SS without any upgrades on Philip, though when I ran him I usually did this because he was 14 SS for up to 6 cards cycled a turn. Moderately useful.

I suggest running Datsue-ba because she is a fairly competent fighter for later activation, and is a spirit who can benefit from Reva's alternative upgrades. Activation control can be important, and having a bunch of seishin to buy you time is nice. Her ability to summon off kills is also fairly nice, provided you can hit the triggers--I try not to SS or save cards for these as Reva is the main drain on cards.

I don't know what Asura Rotten does in great detail, but having learned some of her card via podcast, I'm not super impressed as far as synergy with Reva. You basically need your "elite" crew to run S&S for you, and she seems capable of it, though I'm unsure how she performs in the current environment. The markers are cool, MZ summons are nice for extra activations and corpse markers, but I don't know if she offers a whole lot for getting S&S done for you. Your choices with Reva AFAIK should largely be heavy hitters or more durable S&S runners.

Bete Noire can be cool, but requires the opposing crew to trigger her ability to be regularly useful--you can have her pop out of your stuff, like the 13 SS version I forget--outcast enforcer that has to charge when able. Bete Noire is not the missile that guy is, so you may not get the mileage, especially if you clutch a 10 to ensure the ability goes off. She's also mostly unfavorable against certain crews, namely the ones that turn off defensive abilities/triggers.

Yin can be polarizing. When I first started, I got yin on Fetid Strumpet and others' recommendations. After playing her for some time, I realized she has severe limitations outside a Wp oriented crew. Against Guild you can't play her--she'll get eaten alive by the firing lines with all their positive flips. Somewhat the same for TT, Gremlins, Arcanists, etc. I think you get the idea of why I may not like her too much because every faction has crew options that get repetitive, relatively low cost positive flips. Terrifying can be nice, but in my experience usually doesn't pan out. That being said, if you can pull off her 0, possibly getting a second shot with MLH, you can really hurt your opponent for the Reva activation. Arguably cheaper to ensure it goes off with the Ca 6 and only needing to do it once, but two models over two separate activations is fairly expensive when Yin costs 8 SS and Reva somewhere between 4-8 SS. I generally don't run her unless the board terrain is unusual in having dense buildings and things for her to fly over. 

What I didn't do was explain how Ht and RAW vs. RAI factor into those models. Reva manipulates LoS and Ht rules to make life hard or just dumb for your opponent. Because she is Ht 3, she literally sees in a right angle over anything that isn't Ht3 or higher. Because most people don't like building boards with lots of terrain that's Ht 2 and above, this means on many boards, Reva will literally see everything from behind the best cover. This is important because your corpse markers are Ht 0 and 30mm, meaning you will be able to effectively see around corners to your opponent--Reva sees over a wall to a corpse marker that has normal LoS to the Ht 2 and below model on the other side of a wall, and you blast them with your normal attack. 

This may warp your local area into incorporating higher Ht terrain--there was a lot of discussion on this when Reva first released. If your area simply includes lots of Ht 3 and greater impassable terrain for when you play Reva, you're basically winning when you employ datsue-ba, who literally ghosts anywhere she damn well pleases, or Yin, who can fly over them, albeit with some difficult at Wk 4--Datuse-ba at Wk 6 often gets through most terrain, hence my preference for her. NPEs are more likely to result if the local group starts blocking off large sections of the board to disable Reva LoS.

If your area starts including lots of Ht 3 and greater passable terrain, the real fun begins, depending on how you guys play. I virtually never use the triggers on Reva's card when I take the 2 SS no-reduction upgrade, and when I don't, I rarely look at the triggers because they're usually not relevant. But, the only way to avoid LoS with Reva and (often) remain relevant to the game is to be on top of the passable Ht 3 or greater terrain. However, because range is measured top down and Ht 3 is above Ht 2, you now care about 2 of your triggers generally speaking, because a mask means you smack them for 3 pre-reduction/SS, and then the push throws them off the ledge for another 3 damage pre-reduction/SS in a separate tick. Fall damage in Malifaux is strictly equal to Ht value rounded up for any remainder, so long as Ht exceeds Ht 2.

Depending on your RAW vs. RAI, a model instant falls if a push/pull moves a model in any portion over the ledge of a building, or you have to move it off completely. If you have to move it completely off, it's virtually impossible to make models fall, because your opponent will put models at the edge of the 2" to maximize range requirements and allow for LoS. Theoretically, the second push should push the model off, but RAW vs. RAI because of top down measurement. 

With that, Datsue-ba manipulates Ht better than the other choices because of Wk 6, above average, and being a spirit, which allows Reva's alternative 1 SS upgrade to push, turn her into a corpse marker, and let datsue-ba use a 0, which could be a walk for another spirit or a seishin summon. Bete, Yin, and Asura can't do this, so this is where you learn a bit of crew building--do these alternatives give me options that are better than datsue-ba?

RAW and RAI is actually the primary reason I don't run sybelle. There are a lot of game making plays you can do with Sybelle but for RAW vs. RAI. Comply from Sybelle should in theory allow you to force fail your opponent's model on Sybelle's on Terrifying 12, effectively killing the model for that turn and some of the next. I posted a rules question if you decide to look it up, but the conversation didn't go so well. RAW favors my interpretation when I last checked, RAI prevents you according to any TO for a tournament and the vocal parts of the community. If the ruling ever changes, I would slot Sybelle in a heartbeat because she presents an incredible threat alongside datsue-ba. As it is, she is an "either or" type with datsue-ba, so I often pick datuse-ba over sybelle.

Also, Reva enjoys Ht manipulation because 18" is really far, allowing her to often reach corpse markers with ease once the game reaches Turn 2. If she is 3" from the edge of a Ht 3 or higher terrain, she can see and reach just as easily through her corpse markers generally speaking--with sufficient Ht 3 or greater terrain this is not true, but that much Ht 3 or greater terrain likely makes the game NPE and/or unplayable for most crews. The extra inch generally means she's that much further for range calculation purposes and may be in a position of impunity--e.g. hiding on a circular water silo in the center with 3" from any edge, she can't be melee attacked by anyone who doesn't climb up, braving at least 1-2 turns of attacks. 

Importantly, Carrion Emissary has this kind of manipulation, and he's often in my crew along with datsue-ba, with both having MLH and datsue-ba with the seishin summoning upgrade. When Emissary summons the markers he has to summon them in LoS. Usually not an issue, but sometimes you need to wall off a shooter on a building or have safe cover and room to get onto a roof. RAW vs. RAI, Emissary can't see markers Ht 3 or greater if they were just markers, but ability makes them Ht 5, so theoretically you could place them 5" from the edge provided you're close enough already.

I'm sure someone will see this and post issues with my post--discussion is good if it's resolved officially. Without clear rulings--though I admittedly haven't followed up on my original rules issues since I've stopped, playing ressers is much more of a gamble because you need the rules to operate consistently in a certain fashion to make some plays. 

I would start with datsue-ba, play with emissary, get the upgrade pack to put MLH on each of them, and play with what you have, because you've got various henchmen and some varying levels of other models. Once you figure out your playstyle, purchase from there. If your group lets comply do self-terrifying, I'd slot sybelle and datsue-ba in together instantly.

I think the log covers my thoughts to supplement pretty adequately because it was up to date when I was still regularly playing. I might change that I think spirit henchmen/enforcers are better with living/undead minions, though I never really got to test that too much. 

I know this is a lot for the post--hope it sheds new light on a starting point. 

[Mårten]

1 hour ago, benjoewoo said:

I've stopped playing for a long while, but I do know some of the models, having seen the previews.

I'm not sure if it's still the trend here, but most of the time (from my perspective) people recommend playing first and then choosing models to purchase. Since models are mostly evergreen, there's not a huge incentive to purchase everything and then figure it out, but rather figure out what you need based on play style and level of competitive play you want and purchasing to taste...

 

Just WOW. Really appreciate this.
So, I will have to go through this a couple of times.
I'm gonna be honest, I don't fully understand it all.

When it comes to faction, for now I'm locked in. I simply can't switch for because of the cost.
Usually I just go for what I believe to be the "best", but in this case I didn't think I would actually start playing competitively so I choose the faction I liked the most.

I will go over this post again with fresh eyes next week and see if I can make out the whole Ht thing

 

Again, thanks.

 

[benjoewoo]

I'll assume you own only the following, so no crew box add-ons.

 

Reva    
McMourning    
Seamus    
Nicodem

Flesh Construct
3 Canine Remains
Carrion Effigy
5 Mindless Zombies
Carrion Emissary
Rafkin

 

I'm  unsure how you would get some of these models without the crew boxes, particularly Reva, given that she only comes in a crew box AFAIK.

I hope you have the upgrades, but this'll lead to one of my points to save money: proxy. A lot of people don't like proxies if you've been in the game a while, but if you're new I don't think they'll have an issue. Print the cards off--either through the card ordering program, drivethrurpg (I think that's the official vendor) or bringing your books. 

Malifaux has a rule set that is essentially written for models that are coins. The rules are written so you could play with just bases--if you buy a bunch of bases ($5-10) then you have unlimited models to proxy theoretically.

But, assuming you want to play with real models, I'd suggested the following:

Reva--7 SS pool (3 cache), the non-charge limited upgrade, 2 SS no-SS on damage upgrade with 4" no healing aura, 2 SS no-damage reduction upgrade--just play this until you're more familiar with Reva, and when you get more models start experimenting with others. (5ss upgrades, 4ss saved)

Flesh Construct (6ss)

3 Canine Remains (15ss)

Carrion Emissary with My Little Helper (11ss) 

Rafkin with a 2 SS Upgrade (9ss)

 

Rafkin is not useful really, but at least he's a decent scheme runner hunter. Expect him to die every game, probably around Turns 2-3.

Turn 1 is  your power play set up turn, or it can be your power play if your opponent doesn't play correctly. You want to get at least 1-2 opposing models off the board, preferably efficient scheme runners or a major target. the 1ss limited upgrade drops a corpse candle with from the shadows 1.5--math allows that if you use its activation early, it can walk, kill itself, and drop a corpse marker within 3" of a model despite the range restriction on summoning--the only issue is whether you'll have the marker in position to hit the thing. Practice learning how to get the first, aggressive strike, by timing activations so that your opponent plays off schedule or forces early attacks to mitigate AP efficiency come Turn 2. Once you're competent with that, practice anticipatory position so that the candle blocks off movement--Reva's threatened reach is often more effective than the actual thing. Reva's activation usually blows all your good cards, so I'd be careful of doing it too early and losing a lot of your threat for the Turn. Your remaining models are for activation control and getting schemes. Rafkin should look for a kill. You want to take out a big target kill, e.g. supporting henchmen or high investment enforcer, but 1-2 scheme runners isn't bad. Emissary should try to activate before Reva to set up blockades and mitigate AP efficiency and set up future turrets and activations. I often use MLH Turn 1 depending on board layout because with two sets of shards, you can literally lock your opponent into a pass or lock them out of an area for you to get in position.

Turn 2 will often be the turn you win the game if things go to plan, or at least bring the game to a push so that it comes down to the cards--crew composition matters here and it's where playing average numbers is most important. Reva needs to kill a high priority target during this turn. Emissary will almost guaranteed use MLH this turn if it hasn't Turn 1--position lockout is one of the best ways to mitigate AP efficiency. Everyone else does whatever.

Turn 3 you should be cleaning up if things went well or flipping cards to try and make things work. Carrion Emissary is likely dead by now, but if not go for a hurrah charge on a key piece or cause as much damage as you can, blocking off the escape or blocking off another model(s). Everyone else does w/e.

Reva's activation will almost always be discard a card to summon a candle and attacking. In an ideal world you already have a corpse in position and you spend 3 AP attacking with the 0 for the finish as needed. Generally you'll use 3 AP to attack and the 0 to reposition to your summons--you can summon up to 8" away but can only teleport to one within 5", resulting in almost 8" of movement.

Your SS is basically 1 per turn to cycle two cards pre-turn. 1 SS for the 0 to finish as needed. I pretty much only use stones otherwise for datuse-ba summons if I think it'll get me a significant amount of advantage or if I need to save Reva towards the end of her life. Funnily you can be very conservative on SS prevention, just using them to save her at the end as needed. You can't really afford to lose her at any point because you won't have the force threat, but you don't generally need to stone for suits, just to save her as needed. But, 5 turns of card cycling is basically 2 stones to spare.