Reva wrecking face?

[Paddywhack]

So there has been some discussion on other forums about Reva being an NPE and that she is too strong. I still think it may be a little bit of the 'new model' syndrome, but I'm willing to agree that she is a very, very strong and easy to use Master.

I'm curious what other Resurrectionists are experiencing in their play groups? Has Reva been smashing face everywhere? Especially with Vincent or her upgrades to ignore armour and prevention? How are other players reacting to her so far? Any screams of V1 Hamlin going around yet?

I've only had a few games with her and only managed a couple draws and a win, but I admit I am not a particularly aggressive player and tend to play what I like instead of what might be most competitive (no emissary, no Killjoy, etc.).  I'm actually finding her a slight bit dull to play so far because she is so straightforward, but I can't argue that she is much easier to play. 

Just curious how she is being received especially as I read more and more crazy set ups with her (Killjoy on turn 1 before your opponent can even activate once being the most recent). 

[Endalaus]

I think she's above average for sure. I don't think she's anywhere near V1 Hamlin, but she's definitely on the higher end of the curve, or at least I feel that way. Downside to her is that she is extremely squishy. She has no def/ wp triggers and the only real way to keep her alive is through SS and out ranging threats. The Killjoy thing you referred to is something I've been messing with and IF enemy is playing Reva as well and doesn't protect her, she will be dead first turn, Unless my flips are terrible.

I play her about 6" to 8" out from deployment most games and that's the furthest she gets, unless she's doing a last turn scheme or something.

[Paddywhack]

Have you lost with her yet? Or had opponents question that she is too strong? Just curious.

She seems squishy, but can heal herself pretty well and can always 0 action to get away. Have you lost her in any games yet? I'm playing again soon against Asami and will see, but I don't have any major concerns about loosing her.

I'm starting to wonder if Strength of the Fallen shouldn't have been 12" instead of 18"? 

[Endalaus]

I think right now I am, 2-2-1 with her. 10-5 Win vs. Sandeep. 4-9 Loss to Sandeep. 6-1 Win vs Sonnia. 6-9 Loss vs. Pandora. 7-7 Tie vs. Reva. 

That's where I am currently.

I've lost her in the loss vs. Sandeep, but it was on the last turn. Other than that, no I have not lost her, but I've also played her more back line than up in the thick of things.

[Tapdancer]

I blew her off the table turn one with McCabe, she doesn't cope well with being stomped hard.  Mcabe followed Yasunori burning recall training even a black joker damage flip couldn't save her.  Best way to deal with her is go after her hard.  he is scary even with her box crew.

[Endalaus]

That doesn't surprise me. Yea she's for sure a master that plays a bit more glass cannon and once opponents realize that with little effort she can fall pretty quickly, I think people will see that she's not over the top.

[Paddywhack]

1 hour ago, Endalaus said:

That doesn't surprise me. Yea she's for sure a master that plays a bit more glass cannon and once opponents realize that with little effort she can fall pretty quickly, I think people will see that she's not over the top.

Glass cannon that can sit in your deployment zone and still affect the battle very efficiently though 

 

[TheJoyInGaming]

I think the problem lies with how low of a bar it is to use her efficiently. She plays so straightforward that pretty much anyone can pick her up and give someone a whalloping. Obviously more skilled players will still get more mileage from her.

To answer the question she is banned right now and i can't use her :(. Never lost a game with her yet so i'm about 6 or 7 and 0. Played against Misaki and Sonnia so far. Reva's never died either, though Misaki got close once because i over extended. Re-stablized with all of Reva's healing the following activation.

[Paddywhack]

I think we will start seeing her a lot in upcoming tournaments and the competitive scene. I'm taking it since your friends banned her, you won convincingly? 

Vincent and Shieldbearers are good with any Master really as well, though they add a lot to Reva. 

[TheJoyInGaming]

13 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

I think we will start seeing her a lot in upcoming tournaments and the competitive scene. I'm taking it since your friends banned her, you won convincingly? 

Vincent and Shieldbearers are good with any Master really as well, though they add a lot to Reva. 

YEAH, you could say that. 10-0 and tabled them. I think they are letting her get in their head though. Reva's consistent damage and flexibility scare them and they make sub optimal moves.

[SuperSalami]

Quote

YEAH, you could say that. 10-0 and tabled them. I think they are letting her get in their head though. Reva's consistent damage and flexibility scare them and they make sub optimal moves.

How are you playing her?  I'm curious about the upgrades you're taking and if you're using any of the gimmicky/abusive lists (like Killjoy turn 1).  I bought her but haven't played with her yet because I want to paint her first.

[TheJoyInGaming]

51 minutes ago, SuperSalami said:

How are you playing her?  I'm curious about the upgrades you're taking and if you're using any of the gimmicky/abusive lists (like Killjoy turn 1).  I bought her but haven't played with her yet because I want to paint her first.

I started with Guises and Blood Mark but have moved from them. I now use Beyond Death, Decaying Aura, and Maniacal Laugh. To maximize my AP efficiency i use a Toshiro Death Bubble with 3 Sbers to abuse Vigor and Chiaki to slow my opponent and give heals. Vincent rounds it out by annoying models and opportunity killing. 

Reva can get 5 attacks with this build and is much more flexible with her attacks due to mindless zombies. Her candles i use to protect her with Disguised or chain activate. Due to Chiaki's slow with disguised it severely limits the damage that can be stacked on Reva. This forces my opponents to focus on Toshiro and the Vigor SB bubble who are completing schemes. Because of the plus to attacks i can very reliably get corpse markers, which Reva can use to help with attacks, and i just generally hit more often. I also like to bait my opponents by not doing the 0 to increase defense. 

Scheme choice is very good for my build. Due to the amount of extra AP, the fact that ALiTS is always an option, and i can kit out the Sbers with finish the job i can always score max for that. Usually i overwhelm them so thoroughly by turn 3 or the top of turn 4 they concede at that point. 

[Omenbringer]

Only thing I will add is that Reva is not the fragile little Master that a lot of posters make her out to be. Not having Defensive triggers does not make a model fragile, lots of models don't have defensive triggers and they are plenty durable. She has a lot going for her and one of the biggest is her absolutely incredible threat range and offensive might. her defense is distance. If you can get to her you are unlikely to have enough left to take her out, and if you can't take her out you are unlikely to survive for another shot later.

She is extremely strong and also largely a NPE for those who play against her (particularly those non-book 4 crews or those that aren't tuned to beat her).

[Omenbringer]

While she is similar to Rasputina, she is at least an order of magnitude away from her. Reva has higher defense, higher Willpower, and vastly superior mobility.

Rasputina has to be with in 10" of the Frozen Heart model, Reva has 18" to any corpse marker. Rasputina also can not create Frozen Heart models for free like Reva can (by Free I mean without expending AP). Rasputina's damage is also significantly lower than Reva's and doesn't have the ability to target either Wp or Df. Blasts are nice but you have to hit the required level to generate them meaning you want to hit well, Reva just needs to hit (outside of her 0 Action where you want to hit well for more damage). Lastly, while Reva doesn't have walls on her card, that big Carrion Emissary that is extremely likely to be traveling with her does and also provides a Mindless Zombie for Reva to use as a Corpse node for freezy's. Non-corpse generating crews don't really slow Reva down, she doesn't struggle to generate more than she needs.

I will agree with both of your last statements however. No she is not unbeatable (anyone can have an off day), but consistently achieving victory against her really does require a specific anti-Reva crew build, favorable Strats/Schemes, and good play (much more so than the Reva player who can just do her thing).

[Da Git]

On 17/09/2016 at 7:31 AM, TheJoyInGaming said:

I think the problem lies with how low of a bar it is to use her efficiently. She plays so straightforward that pretty much anyone can pick her up and give someone a whalloping. Obviously more skilled players will still get more mileage from her.

To answer the question she is banned right now and i can't use her :(. Never lost a game with her yet so i'm about 6 or 7 and 0. Played against Misaki and Sonnia so far. Reva's never died either, though Misaki got close once because i over extended. Re-stablized with all of Reva's healing the following activation.

Have you tried swapping crews at all?  See if you can take her down at all to see if the ban is justified. If you can take her down. Then hopefully your mates will learn how to and she can be unbanned. 

[TheTrans]

Just popped this in the learning Reva thread, but also putting it here for you guys.

 

So, had a 14 player tournament yesterday that I managed to win handily.

Game 1 was against a generic Summoning Somer list, with Burt, Francois, A rooster rider and all the bayous and slop haulers. Was head hunter (not ideal for Reva).

I took 

Reva, Tome Charge upgrade, Maniacal Laugh

Vince, Deal with Death, MLH

Carrion Emissary, MLH

Yin

Shield Bearer
Shield Bearer

Necropunk

 

So Francois was dead by the end of turn 1, but there was probably 13 odd enemy models there, all that was left on the table by the end of turn 3 was Summer and 1 Gremlin, I had lost nothing. Called it there, 10-4 my way.

Next round was against Molly summoning horrors, Killjoy, Bette, Sybelle and 2 crooligans. Was made for super alpha strike shenanigans.
I Took:

Reva, Tome Charge upgrade, Maniacal Laugh

Vince, Deal with Death, MLH

Carrion Emissary, MLH

Yin, Necrotic Prep

Shield Bearer
Shield Bearer

Chiaki

It was extraction, I also took line in the sand and show of force. Double debuffed molly with Yin and Vince by the bottom of turn 1, Reva got charged by Killjoy, used most of my stones for +ve DF flips and prevention. She bolted out of dodge and fluffed most of her attacks. Bottom of turn 2, I had lost 1 shield bearer. But Molly was dead, killjoy on 4 wounds and me getting scheme and strat points. Called it there. 10-0

 

Round 3

Was against a mate rocking Raspy (with all the raspy upgrades), 2 Ice Gamin, Snow Storm, December Acolyte, Malifaux Raptor Arcane Emissary and the wendigo. The Strat was collect the bounty. We both took exhaust, I took line in the sand.

End of turn 4, dead Emissary, Dead Raspy, Dead ice gamin, dead snow storm. I had lost a shield bearer and vince. Again Yin coupled with Reva...disgusting...

10-3 (only due to it going to turn 6, as we cancelled each other out round 2 on strat). 

So, I believe, although fragile, her, combo'd with Vince and Yin, are able to easily take out a master or henchman a turn.. Always take as much cache as humanly possible!!

 

So, Reva, solid!! 

 

But in reply to what you guys are saying, she is certainly squishy, but there is a few was to stop this becoming too much of an issue (that I found yesterday). Always try to keep her in hard cover, also activate her late (unless she is going to bring down her 'threat'. Give her disguised with the Corpse Candle, keeps her out of harms way. Also the Carrion with MLH vergers on game breaking. Completely ruined two opponents big pushes by blocking off they're main advance with 4 kythera markers. Then Reva just whalloped what was now stuck in the sort of 'death' arena...

She will die if caught, there is no denying that, but as long as your use her from range, or just bully non-beaters in CC, she is fine. Also, as big a cache as possible!!

[TheJoyInGaming]

9 hours ago, Da Git said:

Have you tried swapping crews at all?  See if you can take her down at all to see if the ban is justified. If you can take her down. Then hopefully your mates will learn how to and she can be unbanned. 

I recently spoke to them about this and they are tentatively for it. I'm going to first walk them through a simplified game where we only flip a strat and where i walk them through every decision i make and give them a thorough explanation of my crew and upgrade choices. Next, if they feel they need more, we will do a crew switch so i can both experience what it is like to play her and they can get more hands on experience and hopefully get further insight. Hopefully this will unban her... She is my favorite master. 

[TheJoyInGaming]

7 hours ago, TheTrans said:

Just popped this in the learning Reva thread, but also putting it here for you guys.

 

So, had a 14 player tournament yesterday that I managed to win handily.

Game 1 was against a generic Summoning Somer list, with Burt, Francois, A rooster rider and all the bayous and slop haulers. Was head hunter (not ideal for Reva).

I took 

Reva, Tome Charge upgrade, Maniacal Laugh

Vince, Deal with Death, MLH

Carrion Emissary, MLH

Yin

Shield Bearer
Shield Bearer

Necropunk

 

So Francois was dead by the end of turn 1, but there was probably 13 odd enemy models there, all that was left on the table by the end of turn 3 was Summer and 1 Gremlin, I had lost nothing. Called it there, 10-4 my way.

Next round was against Molly summoning horrors, Killjoy, Bette, Sybelle and 2 crooligans. Was made for super alpha strike shenanigans.
I Took:

Reva, Tome Charge upgrade, Maniacal Laugh

Vince, Deal with Death, MLH

Carrion Emissary, MLH

Yin, Necrotic Prep

Shield Bearer
Shield Bearer

Chiaki

It was extraction, I also took line in the sand and show of force. Double debuffed molly with Yin and Vince by the bottom of turn 1, Reva got charged by Killjoy, used most of my stones for +ve DF flips and prevention. She bolted out of dodge and fluffed most of her attacks. Bottom of turn 2, I had lost 1 shield bearer. But Molly was dead, killjoy on 4 wounds and me getting scheme and strat points. Called it there. 10-0

 

Round 3

Was against a mate rocking Raspy (with all the raspy upgrades), 2 Ice Gamin, Snow Storm, December Acolyte, Malifaux Raptor Arcane Emissary and the wendigo. The Strat was collect the bounty. We both took exhaust, I took line in the sand.

End of turn 4, dead Emissary, Dead Raspy, Dead ice gamin, dead snow storm. I had lost a shield bearer and vince. Again Yin coupled with Reva...disgusting...

10-3 (only due to it going to turn 6, as we cancelled each other out round 2 on strat). 

So, I believe, although fragile, her, combo'd with Vince and Yin, are able to easily take out a master or henchman a turn.. Always take as much cache as humanly possible!!

 

So, Reva, solid!! 

 

But in reply to what you guys are saying, she is certainly squishy, but there is a few was to stop this becoming too much of an issue (that I found yesterday). Always try to keep her in hard cover, also activate her late (unless she is going to bring down her 'threat'. Give her disguised with the Corpse Candle, keeps her out of harms way. Also the Carrion with MLH vergers on game breaking. Completely ruined two opponents big pushes by blocking off they're main advance with 4 kythera markers. Then Reva just whalloped what was now stuck in the sort of 'death' arena...

She will die if caught, there is no denying that, but as long as your use her from range, or just bully non-beaters in CC, she is fine. Also, as big a cache as possible!!

Seems like your experience running Reva is pretty much on par with Omen's and mine. I have yet to run MLH and the emissary but will most likely never do so. Reva's already banned and i'd rather not worsen that. I found for very evil shenanigans activating Reva late one turn, and then first or early the next can suck the joy of life out of your opponent. Took out four models with this before, including a henchman, and opponent conceded because there were just too many activations on my end since nothing on my end had died. 

Not to blow the cuddle horn too quickly but i believe its been talked about in another thread how to cuddle her. If it were to come to that i would propose rewriting SOtF to discard corpse markers used for it. You would then have to rewrite Blood Mark and the candles to protect the models used as a corpse marker. Then, i would add a built in trigger to Ethereal Reaping that would allow you to not discard the corpse marker used for SOtF. This would allow Reva to do consistent damage but if she wants to do more, such as healing or Beyond Death, it would actually cost her resources. This should allow more pressure to be applied without cuddling her too much.

[TheTrans]

Honestly I would give it a few months before pushing for a cuddle. 

1. Let GG2017 drop hopefully with more emphasis on schemes

2. Let people get used to her shenanigans and just go after her asap

3. See how she fares against new masters

I also thinking banning a master is extremely poor form, like really bad, people need to suck it up a little and learn. A few snipers chilling up somewhere safe is a good start, alpha strike her with something solid. Anything that puts a -ve bent on her cast (yin, witch hunters upgrade) will wreck her or chew stones/AP. Nurses. Belles. Beaters of any kind. Armour. 

Also go after Vince. He doesnt have a lot going for him except stones and the push out of combat. Get a peacekeeper/izamu etc into him..he'll not be happy.

In all honesty..her crew I build around her, you kill her, I'm in trouble. Go after her DF.

 

[TheJoyInGaming]

I agree about waiting. I would give it at least 2 6 month cycles. To cuddle her now would anger alot of people who just bought her because they wouldn't have the right cards, and they wouldn't have been able to use her. Also, the meta has had nowhere near the time to adjust yet so it could be new master syndrome. I still think after an adjustment period she'll be above the curve though. Hopefully she won't require a cuddle.

I agree that banning a Master is poor form, though in extreme cases i think it can be justified if it is ruining the entire game based soley on the Master and not accounting for player skill. I do not think enough time has elapsed to justify such a case based on that and, obviously, i would like her unbanned. The game of Malifaux is so fun however that i will continue playing despite the ban because some Malifaux is greater than no Malifaux. That and my other Masters are Pandora and Yan Lo so they're just trading one headache for another. 

 

[Fetid Strumpet]

MLH I personally think is fine when you compare it to Oathkeeper, Imbued Energies, and Recalled Training, especially when you consider its rare 2 instead of Rare 3, and can't be placed on a master.

[TheTrans]

21 hours ago, aquenaton said:

About the cuddle, it seems the bigest problem with her is how she combines with other models (yin, emissary) so maybe if there was a FAQ about the shard/MLH saying you can only get one mindless zombie, she would be on a more stable position (also, MLH seems a bit too good). What if corpse candles had Shambling? if they were slow, they couldn´t be anywhere. Maybe I am comparing her too much to Rasputina, who has a similar range, so taking away some mobility from her corpses could make her more chalenging to play as you woldn´t have the bodies you want where you want them always. Also, cache 4 is a bit too much, I know henchmen wit less!!!

I honestly don't think the extra zombie on 1 turn is the game breaking issue with MLH mate haha...

[TheTrans]

Had a molly at a tournament that Muahahahed my corpses... Reva just went after her and kicked the shit out of her haha.

Take some shield bearers as Nico, they have a drop a corpse trigger and have the bonus of dropping one prior to death. 

[Wifstrand]

I played four games over the weekend. The most memorable one was Friday night, where I had 9 corpse tokens, two zombies, and a corpse candle out. It happens easily when the Carrion Emissary poops out a zombie a turn (not counting MLH), when you remember to generate a Corpse Candle a turn, and because of your Shieldbearers I also brought two Crooligans to achieve schemes early then simply die to become corpses for Reva.

[Paddywhack]

Against a living crew, you will have a ton of Corpse Markers. I had a total of like 15 one game against Guard (I also managed to get the trigger on the SBs several times for more free corpses). Lady J only had a chance to destroy like 4 before she was toast. Against an Asami crew with a lot of Oni I still had more than enough Corpses around to make use of. One free every turn (well, for a card) placed up to 8" away from Reva really makes it easy to get one where you want it every turn really. The least corpses I've had so far was maybe 7-8. 

I will say I think the easiest cuddle to her, that would involve the least amount of changes, would be to lower the range for Strength of the Fallen. 18" is just too far in this game. If it were 12" or even 10" (8" maybe allow it even while engaged then?), she would still be able to do her thing and play pretty much the same, but would at least have to get closer to the action and possibly be easier to take down as a result. The fact that she can effectively sit far our of danger and still have such a huge impact on the board feels a bit too good. I think I've only heard so far of one player having her die in game.  

This type of change would, I think, require the fewest new cards for players. Just hers and maybe the one upgrade? I'm also not against the corpses being used up at the end of her activation, but would require rewriting more abilities as well.