Who do you think is the most rare master?

[Anung Un Rama]

I m one always drawn to the underdog. What master (apart from the new ones who we obviously haven't seen much of) have you seen little of in Malifaux? Why do you think that is and what does their crew normally look like? I think this could be really fascinating.

[Rathnard]

Well the only Masters I've never seen on the table, neither with nor against, would be Mah Tucket and Ulix. Of those I'd consider Mah Tucket to be the "rarest". While I've heard about people playing and having great success with Ulix, there's been very little talk about Mah herself. 

I'm also quite a fan of the "underdog". It's why I started with Pandora (way back before everyone realised she was broken, last edition) and then Zoraida. Nowadays I'm playing Ten Thunders, but the urge to drop it all and pick up the crews nobody sees is still there.

[Bengt]

I don't think rarity necessarily correlates with underdog-ness. Visuals and fluff play too large a role.

[Ludvig]

I haven't really found any masters that aren't played but since we don't have a lot of players we have had long stretches of entire factions that no one currently plays so it varies. 

 

If you want an underdog, go for Lucius! (although he isn't necessarily rare to see played)

[Kadeton]

I second Mah Tucket. After playing a game against Ulix today, she's the only (non-Wave-4) Master I've never seen on the table. The rest of the Gremlins aren't particularly common either.

[Four_N_Six]

Definitely a meta thing. I love Mah Tucket, she's probably going to be my second round master today in a tournament. 

 

I don't see Lucious very often. In my meta, I don't see many Ressers. They're around for tournaments when someone comes out, but on a weekly basis they're not out much. 

[Rathnard]

Just for the hell of it, if I was to pick the rarest per faction (barring Wave 4 of course)...

Guild: Sonnia. Yeah, it's weird I know. I'm pretty sure she's played, but less than the others from memory.

Ressers: Kriai. She pops up occasionally, but the Resser players generally seem to prefer Molly or Nicodem for their hard core summoners. 

Arcanists: Marcus. Unlike most, it seems as though we've got some Ironsides fans in our meta.

Neverborn: Zoraida. With Neverborn as one of the more popular factions in my Meta she does pop up from time to time, but it's much less often than the others. 

Outcasts: Hamelin. I remember Kadeton using him a few years back, but beyond that and my own games with him, that's it. 

Gremlins: As per above, Mah Tucket. Having watched Kadeton's game today I can now at least say that I've seen Ulix in the wild.

Ten Thunders: Brewmaster. All the rest see table time in my meta (even excluding the times I take them), but Brewmaster is a pretty rare occurrence by comparison. 

[tadaka]

Thats intresting about karcus being rare i was under impression he was a high tier master they normaly got a lot of play

[admiralvorkraft]

A lot of top tier masters don't see play in Rathnard's meta I guess. No Kirai or Sonnia? That's just bizarre

[Rathnard]

 

A lot of top tier masters don't see play in Rathnard's meta I guess. No Kirai or Sonnia? That's just bizarre

There's no accounting for personal taste.  

Besides, there's maybe 4-5 really good players in our meta while the rest are more casual or new to the game. Latter tend to go with who they like the look/playstyle for. Meanwhile the "vets" seem to be more interested in experimenting or playing what's fun, than playing super-competitively. That, and we just seem to value certain Masters/crews differently compared to other metas.

[lusciousmccabe]

 

Thats intresting about karcus being rare i was under impression he was a high tier master they normaly got a lot of play

As it happens I have never even seen a painted Marcus in the flesh, or metal or whatever. Which is odd because most Masters as old as he is tend to show up at least semi-regularly. I think it might have something to do with him being such a sub-faction of his own, so regular Arcanist players don't necessarily feature him in their rotations. 

Other than that the Masters I've never seen in action are Hoffman, Ulix and Brewmaster (and obviously the Wave 4 gang). 

[asrian]

Sonnia and Marcus I actually see a lot for Guild and Arcanist (see all Arcanist a lot though). Lady J on the other hand I rarely see. I do agree on Mah Tucket. She's a strong master with movement tricks, but is less straight forward brutal than the other Gremlin masters can be I guess, so gets less play time it seems. Brewmaster in 10T I rarely see, but I think that's mainly for the fact that he just works so much better in Gremlins due to having access to Trixiebelle. 

[Twg]

I see a lot of Marcus and most of the other Aracanist masters apart from Ironsides. Ressers - Seamus, Ten t's - Brewie, Neverborn/Guild - Lucius, Gremlins - Brewie Outcast - probably Von Schill.

[JoeJones]

The only master I can remember not having seen in play (not counting wave 4) is Hamelin.

[vulky]

In my meta:

- Guild: Hoffman, Mcmourning, Lucius. Have never seen them played outside of test games with a friend. Most played is 2 Austringers with Francisco on every list Perdita.

- Ressers: Kirai. Have never even met anyone who owns her, probably because it's not a very competitive meta, and the value in her box is nonexistant. Most played Mcmourn or Seamus.

- Arcanists: Ironsides. I have heard of people playing her, but never seen it, probably because box is on the newer side and maybe not attractive on a "mage" faction. Rasputina, Ramos and Colette (actually Cooper) are the most played (and most broken).

- Neverborn: Lucius and Collodi. Collodi is good but the required models just came out in plastic (Stitched, actually out of stock here). I make sure to play the other 5 masters. Not counting me, most played is Lilith.

- Outcast: Anything not Leveticus is rare, I hope this will change with the well deserved cuddle. Most rare are Hamelin and Daw, I have not heard of anyone owning them.

- Gremlins: Mah, Brewie. All of the rest I have at least seen from my Gremlin friend. Most used is The Pigapult Somer.

- TenThunders: McCabe, Brewie. I only know of one person who owns McCabe, and they played him on Guild. Most used is Lynch

[daniello_s]

I'm reading this and I can't believe that Kirai is so rare... Really? Kirai? The most annoying from Ressers is that rare?... Whenever you play guys, I must move there...

[dancater]

I'd say Lucius would be up there.

Mah Tucket is also rare.

I'd say that is the two classic rare mentions.  

I've rarely seen or heard people talking about Kaeris, Hoffman, Yan Lo or Collodi.  But I suspect this is a group which is not as rare more meta based and who has what and wants to play it.

Ironsides seems to at least recently getting some real attention, I've played her myself.  Tara and Kirai I've also heard brought up recently and I have a friend who loves Kirai, so not rare here.

I'd say its easier to consider the 'common' masters that you'll often see I think there is a pool of the masters you 'take' in a faction, they are strong work well with a good selection of cross-over models and have some good models in their box sets so folks often have them and they also run certain schemes and strats well.

So in Arcanists, my main faction:

Colette she is strong, real good in schemes, is a power booster for other models [like Howard & Joss] and her box includes Cassandra who is Arcanist essential.  

Ramos strong for multiple schemes, works well with multiple builds and summons in good models en masse and his box includes Howard, Joss and to a lesser extent Spiders.

Rasputina so very strong against Horror builds, the Arcanist aoe nuke, several out of box but core frozen heart models you'll get [Dec Acolyte, Silent One and Ice Dancer] and she loves 'em as well, Ice Gamin are perhaps the strongest Gamin [Summonable by Sandeep] - constructs [so summonable by Mech Rider]  and 4SS, Blessed of Dec is an awesome beast for Marcus builds and also a Raspy staple.

The lesser masters:

Mei Feng the dual TT, means dual appeal, is really strong Kung Fu bouncy, Rail Workers in her box are superb and maybe best construct tanks since Metal Gamin cuddle, she works great with constructs and if you play Arcanists you'll have a few already so why not Mei.  

Ironsides is more niche, Ox Mages recently got interesting with book 4 which will upgrade her box value, The Captain is excellent but SS costly, works well with any M&SU so some nice 'I already have x' synergy.  I think we'll see more of her.

Kaeris again niche, Burning schtick is a little mid-lane Sonnia does it better and condition blocking is common enough it is unreliable.  Firestarter is a solid henchman but not an Arcanist must have and her Fire Gamin were not much to get excited over [but Sandeep increases there value].

Marcus is almost a faction unto himself, truly boggling array of models available to him and the shear scale and potential expense is prohibitive of taking him also until recent Book 4 update beasts had limited cross faction appeal [Blade & Claw ftw].  Book 4 will really provide a side boost to the beastmaster, new upgrades which help both him and his beasts utility in faction, Poison Gamin give him interesting new cheap minions and a potential legit poison spam build.

Sandeep is so new he can't be anything but a qualified uncommon.  His crew box cross faction utility remains open, Poison Gamin are likely only going to be fielded in Marcus lists, Kudra is cheap and has some cool abilities but the jury is still out.  However another summoner is sweet (although his summons are spread out across multiple crew boxes so expensive) and from all reports plays fun and flexible.  I'd expect to see much more of him.

A rough order

1. Ramos is such a great box, solid master and thematic option the Arcanist leader really is.
2. Colette really characterful box and build.  Awesome henchman in the box.  Really strong master.
3. Rasputina is a great starting master, characterful and fun to play with the addition that Frozen Heart protects new players against some of the more 'gotcha' builds around.
4. [Postulated] Sandeep, he seems very versatile and great fun, has a great couple of in theme (Academics, Poison, Gamin spam) builds.  
5. [Suspected promotion above Marcus] Ironsides is increasing in popularity as folks get a feel for her play style, more tank than beater.  The Captain is a great model and the Oxfordian Mages just got two Book 4 boosts [the upgrade and Sandeep Academic spam].
6. Marcus simply because people like the beastlord and (barring Sandeep filling this role as well) he is Arcanist's best in your face mayhem beater.  So many fun models (both a + and a -).
7. Mei Feng falls here because her box is a little weak faction wise [Kang is TT only] and Rail Workers are not summonable.  Still very good master and fun to play but not as brutally satisfying as Marcus and she kinda falls into the... oh and Mei niche.
8. Kaeris is the 'weakest' master of an exceptional Arcanist line up, I mean if Kaeris is the least master on my list, its a good list.  Burning schtick is a little unreliable [Rasputina is much more reliable as a nuclear threat and Mei is a better speedy damage dealer] and Kaeris herself is a scheme runner master/crew in a faction which has better options for that role [Colette].  She is durable but again I think Ironsides is slowly infiltrating that spot.  Her Fire Gamin are not the most sought after minion's [Sandeep may help this but only a little as there are 'better' Gamin] and Firestarter is nice but a secondary henchman you include when the pool calls for particular talents.

It's a rough list and folks will likely argue with it, particularly some exact placement, but I think its broadly representative.  Overall I'd say Arcanist's have an array of very solid master's and none of them really fall into a truly rare, you never see them position.  

[Wolfpact]

My 'meta' is too tiny to be worth calling it that - three players.

 

FWIW, one plays Guild (Perdita), one is Gremlins (Som'er and Zipp, with designs on Ophelia), and I myself am Neverborn-and-sorta-10T/Outcasts (Lynch, Pandora, Parker, definite plans for VS).

 

That said,I have designs on a couple new converts in my extended gaming family (one of whom was fancying Arcanists on first impression).

 

Despite Lynch's dual-status, none of us has any designs on 10T, so anyone under that label would be likely to remain the 'rarest'?

[edopersichetti]

 

I m one always drawn to the underdog. What master (apart from the new ones who we obviously haven't seen much of) have you seen little of in Malifaux? Why do you think that is and what does their crew normally look like? I think this could be really fascinating.

There's a decent number of us playing at my LGS, and between us we cover all of the factions. The masters I have never ever played against (or with) are Kirai, Ironsides and Shenlong. I think none of those three are particularly popular, even though I don't play those factions so I can't be 100% sure. Everybody else I think I played at least once, but some other that have appeared rarely are Perdita (I know this sounds odd!), McMourning and Marcus.

I personally play Gremlins and Neverborn, I have played all of those masters and, even though I obviously have my favorites that see the battlefield more often than others, I think they are all viable (I think I won at least a game with any one of them).

[edopersichetti]

 

Well the only Masters I've never seen on the table, neither with nor against, would be Mah Tucket and Ulix. Of those I'd consider Mah Tucket to be the "rarest". While I've heard about people playing and having great success with Ulix, there's been very little talk about Mah herself. 

I'm also quite a fan of the "underdog". It's why I started with Pandora (way back before everyone realised she was broken, last edition) and then Zoraida. Nowadays I'm playing Ten Thunders, but the urge to drop it all and pick up the crews nobody sees is still there.

Ulix is one of my top 3 favorite masters!! I love him, he's fantastic. But yeah, as a Gremlin player, I can tell you that Mah is a bit of an odd choice, I haven't had many successes with her...it could be me playing her wrong, but she's definitely my last choice in terms of Gremlins.

[Kadeton]

 

I'm reading this and I can't believe that Kirai is so rare... Really? Kirai? The most annoying from Ressers is that rare?... Whenever you play guys, I must move there...

Getting a bit off-topic, but I wouldn't rate Kirai as anywhere near the most annoying (or powerful) Resser Master. She's just never really worked for (or against) me. I'm keen to try her out with the Emissary as I think that will give her a pretty big boost, but in general I find her to be very middle-tier - I certainly wouldn't put her on par with the likes of Seamus, Nicodem or McMourning.

(I realise that other people have different experiences with Kirai, and she gets a lot of love and hate... I've just never seen anything from her in action that justifies that attention compared to the pure awfulness that some of the other Ressers can inflict on their opponents.)

[asrian]

I want to move there also, @daniello_s. @Kadeton I have nightmares, and start twitching like a junky going through withdrawals at the mere possibility of facing Kirai. She, to me anyway, is the most broken master. I never had a problem facing Levi pre or post cuddle, but Kirai makes me want a security blanket, a bottle, and my mother. *shudders*

[Kadeton]

You should both move here! We're in Perth (Western Australia), one of the nicest places to live in the world. I'll be happy to show you that Malifaux contains far greater nightmares than Kirai.

[daniello_s]

 

Getting a bit off-topic, but I wouldn't rate Kirai as anywhere near the most annoying (or powerful) Resser Master. She's just never really worked for (or against) me. I'm keen to try her out with the Emissary as I think that will give her a pretty big boost, but in general I find her to be very middle-tier - I certainly wouldn't put her on par with the likes of Seamus, Nicodem or McMourning.

(I realise that other people have different experiences with Kirai, and she gets a lot of love and hate... I've just never seen anything from her in action that justifies that attention compared to the pure awfulness that some of the other Ressers can inflict on their opponents.)

We have one player here (in Ireland/Northern Ireland) who runs Kirai in unstoppable way. He mastered her so well we are about to puke when he takes her about from his bag...

She is just perfect combination of summoner, damage dealer (with summoning on the top of the damage of course) and  supporter (Ikiryo, Ikiryo, Ikiryo...).

[asrian]

Don't get me wrong, I like the concept of Kirai, but she's one of those masters with too many strengths and not enough balancing weaknesses, and what few weaknesses she might have, she's able to mitigate with Seishen/Spirits around her and Card Draw mechanics from various models (Philip & Nanny, Sebatian, etc).