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Random Ripples Realizations


OneLittleThunder

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Just starting this as a place to toss out random bits of synergy/bizarre combinations as I think of them. These are probably all going to be weird, obscure corner cases that can't (or shouldn't) be planned for, but might be interesting for that one-in-a-thousand game...

  • Yasunori in a Lucas McCabe crew. If the opponent is up by 3 VP (maybe they scored early), a Glowing Saber attack prompted by Kodoku does 4/6/7 damage that ignores Armor, Hard to Kill, Hard to Wound, and Incorporeal.
  • 10T-accessible Minions with built-in :ram on attacks that can benefit from the Kodoku bonus: Guild Pathfinder, Obsidian Oni, Warden (McCabe, with Pursue), Wastrel (with card discard)
  • If you ever need to sacrifice one of your own Oni (to avoid giving up VP or avoid dropping markers), The Fate of Mortals lets you give Flicker to Oni that don't already have it.
  • Akaname can really ruin McMourning's day (and anything else that wants to have a lot of Poison).

More to come as my wind wanders down strange alleyways...

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Guild Riflemen have +:ram on Sh attacks if another, nearby Guardsmen has activated that turn. Guild Guard also have a :ram built into their shooting.

I'm a little disappointed that Daschel's upgrade is Guild-only, unlike stuff like Whiskey Golem's. I don't think it would have been overwhelming in 10T or NB, and Riflemen/Guardsmen don't see a lot of play in 10T McCabe as is. Making Daschel more compelling and by that, strengthening Riflemen and making Guardsmen usable in games, would have been nice for diversifying 10T McCabe crew builds.

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I am still trying to see what little tricks I can come up with but one thing I noticed.  The Convict Gunslinger is an Enforcer sadly so he will not work with that trick.  Rail Workers might be interesting if you have a high Ram in hand as if they already activated they could use their (0) action to have Positive to hit and Damage, nothing like being able to cheat to moderate for 7 damage with one.

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Here's some from me :D 

1) An obvious but favorite one of mine so far: Terracotta warriors let McCabe swap around what upgrades he can pass out to minions.

Speaking of Terracotta warriors, do they trigger Promising Disciple with Sensei Yu? I don't remember the exact wording of Promising Disciple but Ancient Treasures reads: "Target a friendly model and discard a face-up Upgrade..." so it sounds like the Terracotta is doing the discard.
Does this mean that if you pitch one of Shenlong's upgrades, Sensei Yu picks it up? Or does PD specify that Shenlong has to be the one doing the discarding?

EDIT: Shenlong must discard the upgrade so no cute cycling with Promising Disciple. courtesy of @qoob

2) This one has been mentioned around a few places but Amanjaku can increase the Emissary's destiny.

3) Just to touch on Kodoku... it doesn't have the restriction that Feigned Weakness has. You can be winning 10-3 and still get the damage boost. It just references the total of that crew's VP. Also the Red Joker doesn't double dip as it's an add to damage, not increases their damage track (darn). But still, that means Joro is still hitting for 13 dam on a red joker flip/cheat :D 

Also Kodoku hits any minion, so when it hits an enemy minion it checks the opponent's VP. I can think of SO many minions I'd love to use this on that my opponent's bring! 

Lastly, it doesn't specify damage flip... so if the attack does a flat amount of damage, then just buff that damage by 3 (assuming VP is 3+). Niche case certainly, but their are a few attacks out there that just deal a flat damage. A performer doing the poison expunge on someone is just NASTY with this. McMourning beware!

4) Early game silliness: Sun Quiang uses Duality on Yasunori to draw a card by dealing two damage, then can put a card under the deck to Wk 5. You can then duality again to heal Yasunori and basically have spent 2AP to cycle a card, walk and drop a scheme marker.

5) Silly Jank! Wokou Raider can be in a Misaki crew due to infiltration... They prevent the opponent from cheating attack actions that target it's Df... have her leap frog with Misaki to be her Misdirect target, hehe. No cheating for you! Obviously this isn't ideal, but it's a fun interaction that could come in handy against low min damage attacks. Especially if you have any healing in your crew to top the Raider up... like say a Sun Quiang who can push for free towards them and pop a scheme marker out then activate to heal :D 

6) MOAR JANK!! Akaname and Sun Quiang like Obsidian Oni. Pick a random minion that has moved already and isn't in mortal danger. Obsidian Oni can Flames from the Heavens on it twice, dropping two scrap markers and pinging for 1 damage. Akaname moves up 4" and gains Poison +2, which makes it now super accurate to attacking and you can potentially walk Sun Quiang twice if you want. Then Sun Quiang can just heal the damage. Or bring Ototo and just not care of the damage lol. If playing Asami, summon your minion at Flicker +3 now, chucking those 2 scheme markers.  EDIT: Does not work because I can't read :( correction courtesy of @Pyrflamme and @Eclipse

 

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Asami's upgrade that pops out scheme markers from dying oni is potentially really crazy with a performer. Seduction is a thing.

My perfect theoryfaux thought is that you have a dude that dies, dropping a scheme marker next to an enemy. You lure another enemy closer with the performer, then pop the scheme marker forcing the duels and potentially seducing one of them. At the worst you waste cards, but if you do get that double negative flip to stick, Asami's summon into a 1AP charge is just nasty. And if you always have a summon nearby, the performer can even give reactivate out if she's sniped! Reactivating Joro? Sure!

Sun Quiang seems really good with a performer to, allowing you to lure dudes in and then have him make them peons, as well as dropping scheme markers while engaged for her to blow up the next turn.

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3 hours ago, InvokeChaos said:

6) MOAR JANK!! Akaname and Sun Quiang like Obsidian Oni. Pick a random minion that has moved already and isn't in mortal danger. Obsidian Oni can Flames from the Heavens on it twice, dropping two scrap markers and pinging for 1 damage. Akaname moves up 4" and gains Poison +2, which makes it now super accurate to attacking and you can potentially walk Sun Quiang twice if you want. Then Sun Quiang can just heal the damage. Or bring Ototo and just not care of the damage lol. If playing Asami, summon your minion at Flicker +3 now, chucking those 2 scheme markers. 

 

Sadly, the Akaname's Ml attack gets a bonus based on the target's poison value, not its own. It can purge its own poison via its Sh attack, but you'll need to have either Fast or Asami's aura to get into Ml range afterwards.

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5 hours ago, InvokeChaos said:

6) MOAR JANK!! Akaname and Sun Quiang like Obsidian Oni. Pick a random minion that has moved already and isn't in mortal danger. Obsidian Oni can Flames from the Heavens on it twice, dropping two scrap markers and pinging for 1 damage. Akaname moves up 4" and gains Poison +2, which makes it now super accurate to attacking and you can potentially walk Sun Quiang twice if you want. Then Sun Quiang can just heal the damage. Or bring Ototo and just not care of the damage lol. If playing Asami, summon your minion at Flicker +3 now, chucking those 2 scheme markers. 

Unfortunately the Obsidian Oni can not drop scrap markers from friendlies. But the bit about the Performers and Sun Quiang is really tasty. Does he discard a card for this ability, or is it a 'place on bottom of the deck' like the Terracotta Warrior? I don't have the book so I have only listened to podcasts talking about the new models.

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9 hours ago, InvokeChaos said:

Here's some from me :D 

1) An obvious but favorite one of mine so far: Terracotta warriors let McCabe swap around what upgrades he can pass out to minions.

Speaking of Terracotta warriors, do they trigger Promising Disciple with Sensei Yu? I don't remember the exact wording of Promising Disciple but Ancient Treasures reads: "Target a friendly model and discard a face-up Upgrade..." so it sounds like the Terracotta is doing the discard.
Does this mean that if you pitch one of Shenlong's upgrades, Sensei Yu picks it up? Or does PD specify that Shenlong has to be the one doing the discarding?

 

Promising Disciple says "if a friendly Shenlong discards an upgrade"

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6 hours ago, Eclipse said:

Unfortunately the Obsidian Oni can not drop scrap markers from friendlies. But the bit about the Performers and Sun Quiang is really tasty. Does he discard a card for this ability, or is it a 'place on bottom of the deck' like the Terracotta Warrior? I don't have the book so I have only listened to podcasts talking about the new models.

He puts the card under your deck. Which I both like and fear... that's a couple models now that do that Have to be careful about going through your deck too fast then, unless you're popping mods/severes under you deck :o 

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56 minutes ago, InvokeChaos said:

He puts the card under your deck. Which I both like and fear... that's a couple models now that do that Have to be careful about going through your deck too fast then, unless you're popping mods/severes under you deck :o 

Well cramp. Me and Lynch no like so much then  :o  :(

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@InvokeChaos
5) Silly Jank! Wokou Raider can be in a Misaki crew due to infiltration... They prevent the opponent from cheating attack actions that target it's Df... have her leap frog with Misaki to be her Misdirect target, hehe. No cheating for you! Obviously this isn't ideal, but it's a fun interaction that could come in handy against low min damage attacks

hmm Does Misdirection ever actually change the target though? The Raider suffers the effect from the attack, but that attack action didn't target a Wonkou Raider's defense, it targeted Misaki's defense. 

1) An obvious but favorite one of mine so far: Terracotta warriors let McCabe swap around what upgrades he can pass out to minions.

So, Ancient Treasures says to follow "all of the usual restrictions for attaching upgrades at the start of the game." 
So the relevant ones here " A model may not purchase more than one upgrade with the same name" and " A crew may not have the same Upgrade more times than the Upgrade's Rare restriction value."

None of McCabe's upgrades are Limited, nor are they Rare. Is attaching an upgrade equivalent to purchasing an upgrade? I'm going to assume yes because that seems like the intent. Assuming purchase=attach, then McCabe can't purchase Glowing Saber and Elixir of Life, and then have the Terracotta warrior discard the Elixir and attach a second Glowing Saber.

What happens though if you include the Emissary? He attaches one of McCabe's upgrade not already attached to any model in the crew at the start of the game. So, McCabe has the Saber and Elixir of Life. Emissary attaches Badge of Speed. Terracotta Warrior then uses Ancient Treasures on McCabe to discard the Elixir and attach the Badge of Speed. Doing so follows all of the usual restrictions for attaching upgrades at the start of the game. It seems possible then to have a double of any of McCabe's upgrades. 
 

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Quote

Upgrade cards follow these restrictions:
•A model may only have Upgrades of the Crew’s declared Faction, regardless
of the model’s Faction.
•A model may not purchase more than one Upgrade with the same name.
•A model may only purchase one Upgrade with the Limited restriction.
•A Crew may not have the same Upgrade more times than the Upgrade’s Rare
restriction value.
•Models must meet all other restrictions (such as Name or specific Crew Leader)
of an Upgrade.

Since McCabe's upgrades are neither Limited or Rare 1, he is only restricted from getting them if he is currently carrying them or if he's somehow carrying 4 already. If a Wastrel has his Glowing Sabre, it is not somehow still McCabe's Glowing Sabre, only an upgrade with the restriction of Lucas McCabe. McCabe is for all purposes Sabreless.

Edit:

Oh shit, you can theoretically give McCabe armor+4. I am digging this. :aura

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3 hours ago, Definitechoice said:

@InvokeChaos
5) Silly Jank! Wokou Raider can be in a Misaki crew due to infiltration... They prevent the opponent from cheating attack actions that target it's Df... have her leap frog with Misaki to be her Misdirect target, hehe. No cheating for you! Obviously this isn't ideal, but it's a fun interaction that could come in handy against low min damage attacks

hmm Does Misdirection ever actually change the target though? The Raider suffers the effect from the attack, but that attack action didn't target a Wonkou Raider's defense, it targeted Misaki's defense. 
 

Hmm that's a good point, I will have to verify that later. I thought the wording was the they are now the target of this attack, but that still might not be enough. 

Might be a rules forum question? See what other people chime in. 

 

As to the McCabe thing, loan doesn't specify following any restrictions  he just takes them and attaches them.

So in THEORY you should br able to pack on whatever upgrades you want on McCabe, toss them out and shift them around. But how you do this matters.

Ancient Treasures specifies that it must follow start of game attachment rules  so if you gave a saber to your archer, and try to ancient treasure you lose the upgrade because start of game attachment rules says no upgrade to minions. Equally they are all McCabe attachments so they prolly fall off of anyone honestly.

So if you want to do the saber (or shirt) stacking, you need to have say three upgrades on mccabe: he passes his shirt away, then you ancient treasures an elixir away to get a shirt. Now you have two shirts out and mccabe can loan next activation to get it. Then pass both of those shirts out and mccabe can get a third now.

At least that's how I've interpreted it.

but this seems rules as written vs intended, and personally I am looking to just be able to say "I don't need this elixir and badge like I thought I would, let's make it a saber now and shirt now."

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7 minutes ago, InvokeChaos said:

but this seems rules as written vs intended, and personally I am looking to just be able to say "I don't need this elixir and badge like I thought I would, let's make it a saber now and shirt now."

I wouldn't get into the RaW v RaI debate. It works, the rules clearly allow it, and it is incredibly unlikely to be game breaking. This reminds me of the trick to get the same upgrade onto both Shenlong and Yu; no matter what we think they intended, this interaction is allowed and if it's a problem then they can FAQ/errata it.

I'm really interested in the terracotta's ability to help masters like Misaki and Brewmaster who have upgrades that are only useful at certain times so you can switch them out for good upgrades as necessary.

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58 minutes ago, InvokeChaos said:

That's fair. 

And yeah, being able to swap out brewie's trichi upgrade has me really excited as I've normally considered it a dead upgrade for 2ss. 

Brewmaster's "Running Tab" (why the hell does it even cost 2 SS!??), Lucius' "Surprisingly Loyal", even Shenlong and Sensei Yu's styles are fair game now (I wish we could swap the 0 upgrades we have on our Samurai... That would be heavenly). Yan Lo can take Reliquary and after he is done resurrecting his Ancestor buddies he can swap to the Khakkharra or Recalled Training, or something. I'm going to have a field trip swapping upgrades around. Yes, Kamaitachi, come to Papa! ...Argh! Don't bite me!

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20 minutes ago, Eclipse said:

Brewmaster's "Running Tab" (why the hell does it even cost 2 SS!??), Lucius' "Surprisingly Loyal", even Shenlong and Sensei Yu's styles are fair game now (I wish we could swap the 0 upgrades we have on our Samurai... That would be heavenly). Yan Lo can take Reliquary and after he is done resurrecting his Ancestor buddies he can swap to the Khakkharra or Recalled Training, or something. I'm going to have a field trip swapping upgrades around. Yes, Kamaitachi, come to Papa! ...Argh! Don't bite me!

You can also add one of Yan Lo's Ascendant upgrades and then swap them out for Misdirection, Reliquary, Recalled Training, etc., then rebuy the Ascendant upgrade on the next turn.

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1 hour ago, tomjoad said:

You can also add one of Yan Lo's Ascendant upgrades and then swap them out for Misdirection, Reliquary, Recalled Training, etc., then rebuy the Ascendant upgrade on the next turn.

I thought so at first too, but isn't the clause "following all usual restrictions for taking upgrades at the beginning of the game" or something along those lines? Are you sure this is legit? Oh boy oh boy... Fits right in with the insane "Amp it up - Yan Lo Action Man!" build I've been thinking about.

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Just now, Eclipse said:

I thought so at first too, but isn't the clause "following all usual restrictions for taking upgrades at the beginning of the game" or something along those lines? Are you sure this is legit? Oh boy oh boy... Fits right in with the insane "Amp it up - Yan Lo Action Man!" build I've been thinking about.

I meant that you could add an Ascendant upgrade in the normal fashion, then have it swapped out for whatever you want. It would be a way to either save a couple soulstones, or to get additional uses out of Recalled Training/Servant of 5 Dragons.

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