D's comprensive first look of Ripples of Fate

[D_acolyte]

4 hours ago, trikk said:

" These models are sort of specialized Jacks so I expect them to get sidelined by many. "

I think you underpower Guild Marshal Recruiters. they have a 13" charge range by themselves. They mess up Leveticus and Dreamer pretty hard. They can make Justice or Frank really hard to kill. They have a decent shooting attack and can give extra attacks to melee models. With A Debt to the Guild they have min damage 4 for an activation. They also have 6 Df. 

I`d say they are one of the best enforcers in Guild ATM.

I am not under powering them, I am stating that as they field multiple combat roles and work well with a sub set of the faction the fact that they can make a model into that sub set helps them but like the Samurai or Lawyers I feel most people will overlook them. This is especially because some might see it as to get even more work out of the recruiter you need to buy a death marshal or two so you know you will have some enemies buried. As for them being one of the best guild enforcers, to me that is a stiff competition with Greed, Lone Marshal, Pale Rider, and the Peace Keeper. I even like the Exorcist but he tend to be situational and card heavy.

4 hours ago, trikk said:

 They mess up Leveticus and Dreamer pretty hard.

I really dislike it when people do this, they point to a corner case and say "see it is good". If someone declares Neverborn do you automatically think that they are playing The Dreamer and will bury him, I think I bury my The Dreamer (yes the word "The" is part of his name) once every four games. When those corner cases come up that you see Leveviticus, Tara, or The Dreamer then it is great but I would not build thinking I would see them unless they are extremely popular in your meta.

[trikk]

39 minutes ago, D_acolyte said:

I am not under powering them, I am stating that as they field multiple combat roles and work well with a sub set of the faction the fact that they can make a model into that sub set helps them but like the Samurai or Lawyers I feel most people will overlook them. This is especially because some might see it as to get even more work out of the recruiter you need to buy a death marshal or two so you know you will have some enemies buried. As for them being one of the best guild enforcers, to me that is a stiff competition with Greed, Lone Marshal, Pale Rider, and the Peace Keeper. I even like the Exorcist but he tend to be situational and card heavy.

Yes, they are best in a Lady Justice crew with multiple GMs and burying options but... they can Recruit Francisco which makes him pretty hard to kill. Same goes for things like Pale Rider or Peacekeeper. They have a nice charge range with a pretty hefty damage track allowing things like Enfratente to be used etc. I think they are designed in a way, that they can be utilized in a lot of crews. 

I wish Exorcists were that good tbh, but I can`t find a reason to field them. Maybe A Debt to the Guild will change that but the low damage 1 on Symbol of Office and the  on the crossbow means they require cards and don`t really offer that much in return.

39 minutes ago, D_acolyte said:

I really dislike it when people do this, they point to a corner case and say "see it is good". If someone declares Neverborn do you automatically think that they are playing The Dreamer and will bury him, I think I bury my The Dreamer (yes the word "The" is part of his name) once every four games. When those corner cases come up that you see Leveviticus, Tara, or The Dreamer then it is great but I would not build thinking I would see them unless they are extremely popular in your meta.

Its not a matter of "They auto kill THE dreamer". Its a matter of that when you play vs Guild you might see them and that might affect your playstyle because releasing Chompy might be risky. Same with Leveticus. They are not good because they somehow counter them. They are good and in addition can counter them which means your opponent might need to rethink his crew/game plan.

[D_acolyte]

4 minutes ago, trikk said:

I wish Exorcists were that good tbh, but I can`t find a reason to field them. Maybe A Debt to the Guild will change that but the low damage 1 on Symbol of Office and the  on the crossbow means they require cards and don`t really offer that much in return.

This is off topic but I think the Pin trigger is great and has messed up my Neverborn more than once either by eating cards I needed or just stopping my advance.

No on to the recruiter, I do suspect most people will say a decent to good 7 stone model to keep one person alive will not make it into my list when I could put in something else and might get a better threat.

 

[Freman]

So now in fluff Von Schill has lost an arm and leg, replacing them with prosthetics. Should we have his stat card modified to represent that. Perhaps giving him nimble to reflect his improved mobility, and a Joss style powerfist melee attack?

[Fetid Strumpet]

No. 

What Im hoping the vignettes will do is open up some potential new upgrade options for the old masters. 

[dancater]

50 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

No. 

What Im hoping the vignettes will do is open up some potential new upgrade options for the old masters. 

Agreed.  WM/H has in place a system of different 'versions' of key characters on a scale based on story evolution.  It is an inevitable quandary which will be faced by any game which has fixed rules, specific characters and a thematic developing story exactly like Wyrd has for Malifaux (and of course also exists in WM/H).

One option is to simply use this as a reasoning for new/alternate model releases, either generally or for nightmare/promotion editions.  This would mean minimum disruption to the game while allowing some at least characterful visual development.  It is safe because you're not disrupting the system (but may be unsatisfying I acknowledge):

• Folks getting upset that there master/faction has or has not been modified and this has ruined them or left them as 'old'.
• New rules could create massive consequences to balance and factions, it is actually harder in many ways to 'change' an established model than simply create a new one.  When creating a new character you need to design in the rules and ensure theme and balance but you can in effect create and restrict your specific niche.  With already established models they already have a niche, flavor, theme and crew which needs to be taken into account; change it to much and the results could be very negative.
• Questions and confusion over old, new, version of specific masters and crews.

Take Von Schill-Rasputina for instance, he needs new limbs, from where will this put him indebted to the Guild, Arcanists or Resurrectionists?  If he receives boosts will this change his power curve, role, interactions with other models and game balance?  Is Raspy now his sworn enemy, should this be reflected in the rules, will the Friekorps not hire with Arcanists?  Do Raspy's actions create division in the Arcanist faction, will she be cast out, rebel?  Does Von Schill's recovery take so long that the Friekorps break up or new leadership emerges, does he even fully recover?

You could as easily say he does not receive a new arm and/or leg or that the grafts do not benefit (or even harm him) as they present the rules suggestions above.  Given the involvement of all the masters and henchmen from all the factions in the story which ones even get or demand updates?  Is Nicodem still able to move peacefully within the Rezzer faction?  Will all the Guild officers ajust unquestioningly to the new command structure?     

While it can be dealt with in several ways I think that the upgrade system could present an interesting compromise.  I am hoping that Wyrd don't go over the top in story changes and I especially think that doing significant redesigns of old masters would be a massive and fraught undertaking, attempting to maintain balance, continuity and flavor.

Also Wyrd sadly have lost a key game designer in Justin and that is likely to take some small adjustment.  The last thing I'd want to see is the new team diving in precipitously to 'rebuild' multiple masters and potentially disrupting multiple aspects in the community and respective metas.

I'm enjoying the game in its current form and to be honest hope to really explore all the RoF releases over the next year while the Otherside takes some of the spotlight and allows me to focus on what is already out which I have not played enough before demanding yet more new stuff.

Hell I am curious and am seriously considering getting into the Otherside.

[D_acolyte]

10 hours ago, dancater said:

Also Wyrd sadly have lost a key game designer in Justin and that is likely to take some small adjustment.  The last thing I'd want to see is the new team diving in precipitously to 'rebuild' multiple masters and potentially disrupting multiple aspects in the community and respective metas.

I think Aaron, Mason and Lindsey are up to the task. Mason is absolutely sick when it comes to knowing corner cases and tricks of the game.

Also I got an update from a kickstarter, Justin is now working for Soda Pop Miniatures.

For my 2 cents on the idea of old vs new, I think the older masters will do just fine and I do not feel most of the new masters replace them but more sure up what the factions where lacking. New upgrades for older master would be good but then you need to balance those but that should come after we see what the meta is like fallowing RoF.

[edopersichetti]

Where are the new upgrades found? Is it the Generalist Deck 2? And if so, when will that be released? Thanks so much!

[D_acolyte]

41 minutes ago, edopersichetti said:

Where are the new upgrades found? Is it the Generalist Deck 2? And if so, when will that be released? Thanks so much!

Generalist Deck 2 and I have no clue when it is released.

[edopersichetti]

8 hours ago, D_acolyte said:

Generalist Deck 2 and I have no clue when it is released.

Ok thanks. It might be that it was sold in pre-order during GenCon, because I know somebody has some already!