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Sandeep discussion


Kevin Finch

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9 minutes ago, Guslado said:

I've been finding that an academic heavy list works well in strategies where everyone is gathering near the middle (ie Turf War, Extraction, Guard the Stash). Only played two games so far (one win one loss), both with Academic heavy lists and I am liking the amount of damage they can put out. Definitely not for every strat/scheme pool, but they definitely have their place. I am starting to think that Gamin summoning should be done more on opportunity than as a focus--I definitely burned through my stones too quickly getting some Gamin and Big Blue out in the last game I played.

I'm playing my first game with Sandeep tomorrow but I worry about burning through stones for this reason. Did you hire a gamin initially to summon Bossanova off? (Heard name that on Unfauxcast and now I can't call him anything else)

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1 minute ago, Tayne said:

I'm playing my first game with Sandeep tomorrow but I worry about burning through stones for this reason. Did you hire a gamin initially to summon Bossanova off? (Heard name that on Unfauxcast and now I can't call him anything else)

1st game I played I didn't bring any Gamin to summon Big Blue off of and I never got him out (never had the cards I needed when I had a decent upgrade available and didn't bring Kudra's upgrade). 2nd game I did and I was able to get him out easily (although probably early than I wanted to as he ended up being easy to avoid). If you're going to be going for a Big Blue summon, I would definitely bring at least one spare gamin in your crew.

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13 minutes ago, Tayne said:

Cheers. That had been my plan, likely an Ice Gamin so I can set up for +1 Damage on him too after a double walk.

Ice Gamin are handy to let him steal the Frozen Heart Ability (that's what I did). I could also see getting the Armor 2 off of metal gamin as being handy for turns when he isn't going to be doing as much attacking.

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31 minutes ago, Guslado said:

I am starting to think that Gamin summoning should be done more on opportunity than as a focus--I definitely burned through my stones too quickly getting some Gamin and Big Blue out in the last game I played.

Definitely agree. It's great to be able to summon in a :+fate to attacks aura or an immediate interact action but there's no need to toss cards just to keep three out all the time.  You bring in what you need to when you need to. Resummoning just to have bodies on the field can be expensive in more ways than one.

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8 minutes ago, Fog said:

Definitely agree. It's great to be able to summon in a :+fate to attacks aura or an immediate interact action but there's no need to toss cards just to keep three out all the time.  You bring in what you need to when you need to. Resummoning just to have bodies on the field can be expensive in more ways than one.

I definitely fell prey to this last night--spent too many AP and stone on summoning, left Sandeep open to Bette Noir (who I forgot wasn't on the table) when I got baited into killing a zombie close to him.

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2 minutes ago, Guslado said:

I definitely fell prey to this last night--spent too many AP and stone on summoning, left Sandeep open to Bette Noir (who I forgot wasn't on the table) when I got baited into killing a zombie close to him.

Also, Reva hits hard and makes me cry.

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I killed a Lynch Saturday who forgot Killjoy with I.E. Was buried. It's a painful mistake to make.

In my first avatar game with Sandeep I summoned twice first turn, and once on turn 2 to replace Blue after Lilith offed him.  Game two I summoned twice first turn, replaced Blue twice, and summoned a third gamin to pick up a head and prevent convict labor turn 5. I feel like I summoned a lot that game.  

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1 minute ago, Fog said:

I killed a Lynch Saturday who forgot Killjoy with I.E. Was buried. It's a painful mistake to make.

In my first avatar game with Sandeep I summoned twice first turn, and once on turn 2 to replace Blue after Lilith offed him.  Game two I summoned twice first turn, replaced Blue twice, and summoned a third gamin to pick up a head and prevent convict labor turn 5. I feel like I summoned a lot that game.  

My game against Reva last night I brought:

50 SS Arcanists Crew
Sandeep Desai + 7 Pool
- Unaligned Sage (1)
- To Command Another Plane (1)
The Valedictorian (10)
- Warding Runes (1)
- Imbued Energies (1)
Kudra (7)
- Warding Runes (1)
- Free of Mortal Shackles (1)

Oxfordian Mage (5)
- Temporary Shielding (0)
- Doom Ward (0)
Oxfordian Mage (5)
- Temporary Shielding (0)
- Blood Ward (0)
Oxfordian Mage (5)
- Temporary Shielding (0)
- Nemesis Ward (0)
Sanctioned Spellcaster (5)
Ice Gamin (4)

Turf War (standard deployment), Convict Labor, Show of Force, Exhaust their Forces, Undercover Entourage, Search the Ruins.

I took Show of Force and Search the Ruins. Ended up losing 10-5 (thought I had Search the Ruins locked down, but my opponent was able to get lucky on Kudra and clear her off the scheme marker she was protecting last turn).

First turn summoned an immune to Slow Ice Gamin and stationary Big Blue first turn, but left Sandeep vulnerable to Bette popping out when the Gamin killed the Zombie Ana Lovelace summoned in the middle of everyone and then Reva went to town on Sandeep. 

The first game I played with Sandeep I felt like was was too conservative with him, this game I played him too aggressively and got him killed off far too quickly; looks like playing him somewhere in between those two will be his sweet spot. Without Sandeep on the table the crew I brought was able to hold its own pretty solidly (albeit not able to be as schemey without Sandeep's 0 I was planning on using), so at least I know he wasn't a total linchpin in that crew. Definitely a learning process (also learning how to play against the nuttiness that is Reva). 

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I think Sandeep has a pretty good game against her.  He's incredibly fast and can get her engaged turn 1 without too much hassle.  The trick is to not fall for those goofy tricks that are really easy to fall for.

I have been thinking maybe it's worth the nine points to run i.e. Fire starter with bleeding edge into Resurs. He strolls in from 20 inches away with the :-fate cast aura and jams up their caster pretty good. 

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3 minutes ago, Fog said:

I think Sandeep has a pretty good game against her.  He's incredibly fast and can get her engaged turn 1 without too much hassle.  The trick is to not fall for those goofy tricks that are really easy to fall for.

I have been thinking maybe it's worth the nine points to run i.e. Fire starter with bleeding edge into Resurs. He strolls in from 20 inches away with the :-fate cast aura and jams up their caster pretty good. 

It was my first time seeing Reva on the other side of the table, so I definitely didn't have her tricks figured out yet. She's definitely interesting to play against and bleeding edge sounds like it has some solid potential against her.

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12 hours ago, dancater said:

Besides can't complain if you force your opponent to expend the resources to constantly bury a summoned model.  Good to hear that he is playing really nicely and balanced and also kind of pleased he is interesting and challenging because ultimately I prefer that sort of game.  

I am wondering what his builds are going to play out like, the Academic thing sounds interesting but niche, the Poison Gamin actually in his box are I think going to be very unusual selections for his crew, you'll see them summoned now and then but SS purchased I'd imagine rarely.

retnab (and others) any particular stand out models (other than Big Blue) in your games?

Did Kudra get a look in?

Which little Gamin are getting summoned regularly? 

I agree, Banasuva being Buried nearly every turn left the rest of the crew (mostly) safe from the same issue.  The build that I used in the game was:

Sandeep (Arcane Reservoir, Behold Another World, Enlightened Soul, 4ss cache)

Cassandra (Practiced Productions)

Kudra (Free of Mortal Shackles)

Howard Langston

Sue

Arcane Effigy

Fire Gamin

I took Frame (Howard) and Exhaust Their Forces, going 7-4 when my opponent correctly assumed Howard was the Frame target and didn't kill him.  The Fire Gamin to start was to give Kudra the built in :mask right away, plus an optional Banasuva summon (which ended up happening).  With Sue and Arcane Reservoir I had the 12 in hand to summon Banasuva most turns which was nice.  Incorporeal Howard got a decent amount done, killing a Death Marshal and a summoned Student of Steel sent after him, then locking Karina down.  Kudra took out a Void Wretch running schemes on the sides, picked up the heads Howard threw at her, and blew up Banasuva after he appeared at 2 health and Slow when the Void Wretch died nowhere near another enemy (he had the no move upgrade, so no Kudra would have meant no Banasuva later).

MVP of the game was definitely Cassandra though, she shot multiple Breath of Fire's into the enemy crew, getting a fair few blasts and forcing the Nothing Beast to spend his Void Shield and still take out more than half his health, while Blasting onto Tara.  Later on she hunted down the other Void Wretch not killing it, but forcing my opponent to only get 1 Covert Breakthrough point.  Sandeep spent most of his time in the center of the board handing out abilities, dropping a Metal Gamin to pick up heads (which Kudra ended up handling just fine so he wasn't too useful), Banasuva when I could, and firing off his Arcane Storm into anything he could.  He also kept Howard Incorporeal most turns, but also made Cassie Incorporeal once to be able to chase the Void Wretch through a forest.

His kit is incredibly flexible and I will absolutely be playing more of him!  Just a fantastic master, very fun to play.  It's going to be a bit tricky keeping track of everything though, I'm thinking of making little tokens to keep track of who has the Earth, Fire, and Wind upgrades and which of his 4 Ca's that can be Beaconed out are still available.

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2 minutes ago, retnab said:

 

His kit is incredibly flexible and I will absolutely be playing more of him!  Just a fantastic master, very fun to play.  It's going to be a bit tricky keeping track of everything though, I'm thinking of making little tokens to keep track of who has the Earth, Fire, and Wind upgrades and which of his 4 Ca's that can be Beaconed out are still available.

I just put the upgrades with the card of the model that I summoned. As to which of Sandeep's Ca actions have been used, I've just been using a dry erase to mark them off each time they are used in a turn.

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Random question--do Arcanists have access to a way to unbury friendly models?

I was thinking that if we did and Big Blue is getting low on health, he could take the Wind Gamin "To the Sky" ability. Use Kudra to kill him off, then he heals up and is buried. If there is a way to unbury friendly models, wait until he loses the "To the Sky" ability as he no longer would have the restriction of not being unburied by friendly models. Seems silly and I don't think we have access to a method to do this, but if we do and I'm overlooking it it could be an interesting way to heal and reposition Big Blue.

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Just now, Guslado said:

Random question--do Arcanists have access to a way to unbury friendly models?

I was thinking that if we did and Big Blue is getting low on health, he could take the Wind Gamin "To the Sky" ability. Use Kudra to kill him off, then he heals up and is buried. If there is a way to unbury friendly models, wait until he loses the "To the Sky" ability as he no longer would have the restriction of not being unburied by friendly models. Seems silly and I don't think we have access to a method to do this, but if we do and I'm overlooking it it could be an interesting way to heal and reposition Big Blue.

Maybe not exactly as you put it, but what about something like using a wind gamin's push to re-position big blue when it has the command in (no moving) or something?

Would that work? I'm no Arcanist, but I am not opposed to coming up with neat tricks.

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1 minute ago, Endalaus said:

Maybe not exactly as you put it, but what about something like using a wind gamin's push to re-position big blue when it has the command in (no moving) or something?

Sadly it doesn't, when Big Blue has the Earth Vision/Command upgrade it can't be moved or pushed, only placed. I'm mostly looking for fun abilities for Big Blue to assimilate from other Gamin.

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1 hour ago, Guslado said:

I just put the upgrades with the card of the model that I summoned. As to which of Sandeep's Ca actions have been used, I've just been using a dry erase to mark them off each time they are used in a turn.

That's what I was doing with the Upgrade cards too, but I like using the 9 card pages and that doesn't really work there.  Then again I've never used a non-Ramos summoner so I may just have to get used to that.  Smart thinking just marking the abilities off on the card though, I'll do that next time.

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Played vs Tara in extraction tonight. I brought hank with ie, joss with bleeding edge and powered by flame (which I forgot all game), two metal, two poison, and I decided to try something silly so I chose exhaust and tag.

Tara brought a belle, Katrina, death marshal, yin, killjoy, a necropunk and mountains of upgrades. I do feel like I'm missing something in there.

Turn 1 wss positioning. I summoned a wind gamin and Blue in position to threaten the punk first turn but Tara pulled killjoy out to stymie that.

Second turn, after Tara did her thing Hank went in on Tara and brought her down to one stone and five wounds. Next killjoy charged Sandeep, leaving him at half. Sandeep teleported charged Tara to finish her off, then summoned Blue again. Yin proceeded to lock down Hank for the rest of the game, the death marshal boxed Blue, and my gamin started the condition pile for my schemes.

My opponent was too spread out at this point to contest the moving center and was only able to score scenario once. He got two for neutralize on turn 4 (never revealed it when I hit half) and was barely able to get his punk away from the metal gamin to score leave your mark turn 5. In killed too much turn four and ran out of models to tag, so we ended 9-5.

 

Some thoughts:

Killjoy with decaying aura hurts. I should have played more aggressive with joss to kill him, maybe, instead of camping the objective as model three or four.

Sandeep is pretty good at murdering folks in melee. Very respectable.

This was the first match I was masks starved. I pitched a 12m to teleport one turn.  Six cache didn't last nearly as long as I hoped.

Yin is a jerk. In retrospect I feel like I might have prioritized wrong. If I had gone in and taken out yin with Sandeep I could have freed up Langston to actually do something besides stand around looking pretty

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So I had my first game with Sandeep this evening and thought I'd give my impressions. Strat was Reconnoiter. Schemes: Exhaust Their Forces,Hunting Party,Covert Breakthrough,A Quick Murder. Corner Deployment. He took Jack Daw, Montressor (with new upgrade), Envy, Sue, Malifaux Child, 2 Guilty and Johana with The Bigger They Are (ouch, see next).

I went Academic, though I do not think this is the best list by any means and took. Sandeep with Enlightened Soul, Unaligned Sage and To Command Another Plane. Valedictorian with Imbued Energies and Warding Runes, Kudra with Free of Mortal Shackles and Warding Runes, Arcane Effigy, an Ice Gamin and three Oxfordian Mages. (Means that only the Effigy, the Gamin and Sandeep don't give Johana +1 Damage).

I won't go for a blow by blow because the game went one sided quite quickly, instead I'll give highlights:

- So many options! I need practise just for speed, Beacon allows so many options to your crew I was thinking "do I teleport this chap? Well, if I do, I can't teleport this one later so..."

- Student of all is excellent. I got an Ice Gamin to use The Mind Among the Senses to pull Sandeep about 3" up (poor positioning on deployment my side), had a tome in the total so summoned a Metal Gamin with Commands in Wind. Gamin then ran forwards towards Envy, Sandeep later ran twice and popped out Banasuva between the Metal Gamin after my opponent's crew had activated. I won the initiative on the next turn, so Banasuva managed 5 attacks, killing the Guilty, wounding Envy and using Arcane storm (and getting lucky) to injure Sue behind him.

- + flips from Commands in Wind is amazing, meant furious casting was a real threat from the Oxfordians, even to Jack. On the other hand, the lack of M&SU was noticeable as they did not get + flips on WP duels

- The Bigger They Are upgrade on a relic hammer is scary.

- Sadly, Quick Murder meant I was cagey with Vale, so I didn't see her potential.

- Was trying to use Kudra for a scheme runner-hunter but I massively whiffed for most of turn three. On my way home I was thinking of her compared to Cassandra... yeah, Cassie wins in almost all ways.

- I never actually got to use Enlightened Soul nor make melee attacks with Sandeep, so can't comment there.

That's it for now, but overall I was very impressed and look forwards to playing him more. (and I am, three games at a story encounter tourney this Sunday, woo!)

Laters all

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44 minutes ago, Tayne said:

Was trying to use Kudra for a scheme runner-hunter but I massively whiffed for most of turn three. On my way home I was thinking of her compared to Cassandra... yeah, Cassie wins in almost all ways.

Given that Kudra is cheaper and fits in a different crew slot is that really fair?

It seems that Kudra's better comparison in terms of points, scheme running and more niche role would be the Firestarter.  Both are costed at the lower end and seem to be equipped as good scheme running henchmen, Kudra does some poison and thousand cuts damage, Firestarter does burning and some aoe.

Cassandra is worth 2SS more and for that you get real flexibility in purpose which you can't expect Kudra to have.  In addition Cassandra is possibly the best value model Arcanists have for all around flexibility so you're comparing our 'A' grade and finding she falls short.

Kudra it seems is very important to Sandeep builds with her upgrade to cycle Gamin and the attached upgrades for summons.  Otherwise she is very niche I think, cheap enough to throw in and be useful in games but not likely to swing games on her own (which Cassie certainly can).  I've yet to really explore her but as an Academic she will buff certain models, her poison could be good in certain builds and as stated she is fast and as a henchman dangerous/durable enough to be a solid scheme runner or disruption missile.

But yeah, she won't be Cassandra.

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