Return Fire

[SlackerLM]

So I have been theory-fauxing Return Fire. I'm liking it on Sue, for both fluff and his Attack. Also thinking that Lust might be a good choice, Heartbreaker is a good positioning attack. So anyone else think of using Return Fire? On whom?

[clockworkspide]

It has to be a Sh attack, so Lust won't work.  My first though was to put it on a Convict Gunslinger.

[Axelst]

I'm thinking on using it on convict gunslingers and Sue, since they can use the trigger while engaged, and because they can still cheat fate against models in cover.

How can Lust be a good choice with return fire? She doesn't have any Sh actions, so she can't use the trigger herself.

[SlackerLM]

Lust would be great, when your posting at work and forget that she Ca's and doesn't Sh. It happens. 

Envy on the other hand, would probably also do well with it on. 

[SoylentRobot]

my first thoughts were to try it with Lazarus, because explosions.

Rusty Alyce would also be pretty neat with it. Hamelin's Pipes is a SH attack, which could cause some problems depending on whats going on at the time.

Then there's all the constructs like Ryle that Levi can hire...

[Ludvig]

My prediction is that this upgrade will be completely sick and quickly turn into an auto include. Convicts and Sue seem like the obvious ones since you can't negate the return fire by engaging them.

[Axelst]

4 hours ago, SoylentRobot said:

my first thoughts were to try it with Lazarus, because explosions.

Rusty Alyce would also be pretty neat with it. Hamelin's Pipes is a SH attack, which could cause some problems depending on whats going on at the time.

Then there's all the constructs like Ryle that Levi can hire...

Return fire can only be taken by enforcers, so it won't work with Rusty Alyce, Hamelin or Ryle.

[daniello_s]

Which makes it a bit meh...

[SoylentRobot]

aww, nuts

[jphealy]

Eh it's mainly a convict gunslinger upgrade but it's sooo good on them. 

[daniello_s]

Sue/Convict almost dedicated but suit-dependent so not really reliable. On the other hand vision of being hit in return fire might discourage attacking them with low skilled models.

[Axelst]

It works after resolving, so it is probably be better against lov Df or low Wd models.

[Artifact]

It's probably going to be stuck on those who can Sh in melee or have blasts, but I think it could make Peacekeepers Chain Harpoon quite devastating. Tossing out slows action free, pulling opponents out of position/cover and in potential range of a Flurry is hard to ignore.

Though Burt can't benefit in melee, he does have blasts and a trigger to score extra attacks like the Convicts. Even though it's probably not practical, Gracie shenanigans with pushes and reactivate could be fun. Can't wait to see him in action.

[asrian]

I've used it to extremely good effect on Sue (all his attacks, close and at range are SH at +Flips). It does not limit the attack to no triggers, so he's hitting with Crit Strikes. It also is pass or fail on Df or WP, so even if you fail a Lure from a Belle, as long as you flip/cheat a crow in you're potentially knocking the crap out of them for the audacity of targeting you, especially as Sue is immune to horror so even terrifying opponent's have to stay on their toes or be ready to cheat their own defense flips while on the attack.

Other Enforcer models in Outcast who have SH attacks for both close combat at range attacks (so it's always useful and you can only make SH attacks and they normally have  so can't be used while engaged) are Convict Gunslingers (who also have +Flips to attack) and Lazarus. 

The upgrade is Rare 2, so hire any of the two above, or two Gunslingers and slap it on them. After 5 games using it on Sue, it's become my auto-include for him from now on when taking him in Outcast as it makes him a vicious threat both in and out of his activation.

[Axelst]

2 hours ago, asrian said:

Other Enforcer models in Outcast who have SH attacks for both close combat at range attacks (so it's always useful and you can only make SH attacks and they normally have  so can't be used while engaged) are Convict Gunslingers (who also have +Flips to attack) and Lazarus. 

Lazarus can't shoot in close combat.

[asrian]

Ahh, my mistake. Thank you for correcting that (late, tired, and going off shoddy memory it seems).

 

[Ferahgo]

Guys! But what about Killjoy? 

He's got shooting attack - his hook with built-in drag so after resolving his shooting attack he can also drag unfortunate model 4 inches to Killjoy...

 

[asrian]

I like that. To be honest it's been over a year or two since I used Killjot that I'd honestly just dismissed him as pure beater (which is where he excels). 

 

The only downside side to this idea are situational when you want to charge on his next activation for 1 AP to gain an extra attack.

 

That is offset though by the potential free attack, drag, and the having the opponent suddely finding their models hurt and in close proximity to a black blood spewing Killjoy who is likely going to take more damage before the turn is over as they try to kill him.

[boots468]

I don't have the book yet (was dispatched today though!!) - but does the return attack have to be against the model that made the initial attack?

If not, I may finally have a use for my Desperate Mercenaries - at only sh4 they won't do much damage to Lazarus or a Strongarm, who would happily take 1 damage to make a free shooting attack. If you have 2 models with Return Fire, you could even do the Merc's (1) action to take two shooting attacks at -2sh - handy when you don't want to hit!

If you can keep it near a master or henchman too, and get the SS back when it dies, you're also only effectively paying 3ss for a disguised, significant model who's powering up your shooters.

[asrian]

Yes, the "Return Fire" is resolved against the attacker.

[Manxfaux]

It's against the attacker.

I'm considering this for the specialist too. There seems to be a lot of focus on dropping scheme markers to power up abilities and they are pretty useful at clearing all types of markers.

[Manxfaux]

The Pale and Mech riders can take it too. They both use their gun in melee.

Plenty of options with Levi as usual.

[Axelst]

But the riders already have a Df trigger that competes with return fire, so it won't be as efficient on them.

[asrian]

Agreed. I'd rather give Oathkeeper to a Rider.

[Ludvig]

On 15 augusti 2016 at 11:55 PM, Manxfaux said:

It's against the attacker.

I'm considering this for the specialist too. There seems to be a lot of focus on dropping scheme markers to power up abilities and they are pretty useful at clearing all types of markers.

Bonus points for having a model with a blast attack that you can deliberately miss with your own models to trigger more blasts.