Ripples of Fate Musings: Arcanists

[AgentRock]

Here's a blog post taking a look at the new models coming for the Arcanists. 

[Bengt]

In this write up it says that you pay 17 SS for 3 Oxfordians with the new upgrade, others have said 15 SS for 3. So what is the actual wording on this upgrade?

[Ampers&nd]

I'd imagine it comes down to how rare it is- if there is a rare  1 limit on the card then only one mage can have it, so 3 mages=17ss, if there is not a rare limit and it can be given to all three mages they instead cost 15. I'm interested in which it is myself. 

 

I wouldn't describe circus bear as meh myself, anything that makes the SRM actually playable get a big thumbs up from me. 

[BFOmega]

Not sure how you can think Blade and Claw is that bad, unless the range on it is super short or some other restrictions. That upgrade with Reactivating Howard + a raptor could be straight up broken. Raptor goes in, Howard 0's to it, nimble + Flurry something, reactivates, nimble + flurry something else, and if he's still in danger 0's back to the raptor. Could likely be 2 things dead with Howard in no danger, and could move the raptor or do it again (minus reactivate shenanigans) if you win initiative.

And they had said there are 8 Arcanist cards in the new deck. Blade and Claw and Well Rehearsed are rare 1, so I'm guessing we get 3 of each of the other two.

[Ampers&nd]

which answers my question as to the rarity of the ox mage upgrade, thanks:)

[Fog]

You can take the upgrade on all three mages to bring them down to 15 points.  

[decker_cky]

Can't you take the upgrade on 17 mages, making them 85 soulstones?

[retnab]

I'm glad there's finally a written synopsis of our stuff but some of it's a bit vague... I still have no clue what the poison gamin do. Could someone please do an overview of that model?

[dancater]

Yeah, been hoping to see this outline but left as uninformed as I am informed in the end.  I have many questions, I would not expect them all answered but hoped for more and this preview left still more questions then I received explanations, sorry.  Fortunately my RoF got shipped today so I expect a 2 or so week wait to get all my answers.

No mention of what Sandeep's limited upgrades do beyond Gamin summoning, I know they buff his melee, anything else?  Also I heard the draw card when an academic discards a card has a Wd cost, is that correct?  No quick synopsis of the Gamin summon upgrades, I know they are on another thread but would have liked them in the review.

Banasuva's damage track (like a truck.. I think its 3/4/6 but not certain, any triggers?).

Kudra so Butterfly Jump and the Df/Wp trigger (built in [on both?] on a book?) and the trigger is only on a hit - correct? How many wounds and what is her Df/Wp? Any triggers on the melee attack (I assume 1AP normally and gets x2 attacks on a charge only?)?  Is the Elemental Bolt the same as found on the Ox Mages in all respects (Ca, RNG, Dam and triggers)?  What are the Gamin buffs she gains, in what radius is nearby, only one buff or would it benefit from multiple different Gamin, does it do anything else?  What is her Wk/Ch stat, can she scheme run because otherwise she is a little limited it seems?

Amina, when she suffers damage after the damage immediately push the enemy 2 inches (ability I assume not trigger) correct?  What is her Df/Wp and Wds stats?  The cast action only slow? Ca and resist Wp? Taunt trigger?? any detail please.  Pistol attack Sh, dam track, range and triggers?  Does she have a melee, is the pistol RNG and melee?  How does the pseudo lure work and is it a Ca attack resist Wp?  The second (0) action hands out Peon and insignificant condition? What are the Ca and RNG of the two (0) actions?  Does she have any upgrades?

As an M&SU model my first thought for her is Ironsides, seems she would buff that middle mob crew build.  Maybe any other crew that needs frustration model but she has stiff competition at 9SS hench(wo)man in Arcanist's. 

Carlos, when he pushes the Pyre marker if it touches another model then Wk duel or damage/Burning??  Can he push the marker every time he walks and does it need RNG and/or LOS? What are his Df/Wp/Wds and any other defenses apart from Burning = armor and Smoldering Heart?  He gains Burning+1 at beginning of each initiative, does he maintain burning or will it vanish at the end of each round as Burning normally does, so is it a steady stack each rnd or will it cycle, is he immune to Burning damage normally?  His melee does straight Burning +1 and then triggers or does it have a damage track (dam or burning +X?) and then triggers?  So the (0) action places a Pyre marker (in what range? Need LOS? any restrictions?) and then he can walk to move it before it vanishes at end of turn correct?   What is his Wk and Ch stats as this will impact his utility a great deal, any movement specials?  His upgrade, allows him to heal from Burning, otherwise does he take damage from Burning or is he immune?  Does the 1AP scheme marker detonate work on any scheme marker (friendly & enemy) or only friendly and what is the pulse radius, is this a Ca and if so what cast?

Burning is Kaeris schtick, maybe Mei Feng but not a construct, Show(man)girl so perhaps some interesting synergy with Colette.  Maybe any other crew that needs frustration model but he has stiff competition at 9SS henchman in Arcanist's. 

Poison Gamin, ummmm, this tells me they have 5 Wds and nothing else, no speed, no attacks, no defenses, no other abilities, tactical actions.  

Shaster Vidiya Guard 8SS enforcer (is it M&SU and/or an Academic, any other station characteristic?).  Draws a card if it cheats Df, what is its Df, any armor, triggers or other defenses (Hard to Kill, is that auto or only on discard for focus?)?  Only on Df or Wp as well, what is its Wp?  What Wds stat, (8?) is it a tar pit model?  OK melee dam track but what Ml value/range and does it have built in suit, what are the triggers?  Weak ranged attack? Pistol stat? Sh or Ca?  What dam track?  Not sure how this trigger works here nor why it would benefit Raspy much at all, what am I missing?  Is the (0) a Ca action and if so what does if base require?  For  8SS here this so far seems.... meh.  Need much more info.

Circus Bear Rare 1?

Temporary Shielding Rare 3? Is it -1SS to take the upgrade on an Ox Mage and will it displace the Ox Mages 0SS upgrades or does it not count towards upgrade limit?

Well Rehearsed Rare?  Is it enforcer only (is it supposed to gel with the SV Guard above somehow?)?  This seems very niche but I could maybe see its use, very occasionally, might be missing something or have not recognized a utility it has..

Blade & Claw wow this seems potentially legit, does it go on the leader or a henchman and then buff the construct/beast?  Does it have to go on one of the pair construct/beast for the buff?  Does it buff any and every construct and beast in the list?  If it provides a (0) action does it do so to one construct/beast, or two, or every construct and beast (would Scorpius get two (0) actions and be able to switch with itself???)?  Is there a range on the swap?  Is it a auto action or a Ca and if so what casting requirement?  Can you switch any construct with any beast or is it limited to a station type (Enforcers only, Minions only, Peons only, like for like )?  If you can can cast this on any beast and construct can it be used multiple times in a single turn or only once and can it be used on the same models repeatedly in a turn?  

This upgrade is potentially amazing or could (unlikely) be total garbage, we need much more info.  The worst case (for opponents) is you drop it on a henchman and it buffs the whole crew so give it to Joss, Cassandra, Myranda, The Captain depending on crew - then all constructs and beasts gain advantage [including Joss] wow.   This would allow (0) multiple times/turn potentially and if it is not range or cast limited this will break the game when Arc's build into it [2x Raptors fly one in (0) in Howard to combat then on Howard's activation absolutely destroy something then (0) out to first raptor [or second depending on rule], with a reactivate you could even do this twice]. 

Alternatively it goes on an enforcer beast or construct and gives them the (0) so is this case it goes on Howard [or something similar, but sadly not the Coryphee Duet ] and either they charge into the fray and unleash then (0) action out to safety after or something else moves into engage and then Howard activates and (0) actions in to melee fully charged with AP for violence.  This does not even include the scheme and strat implications.  

It makes the crossover Scorpius potentially interesting.  If it works on Raptors opponents will cry.  Several Gamin are constructs and Poison are I believe beasts and the Gamin can also be tossed by the construct Ice Golem which has interesting applications.  Putting this on a Cojo, Cerebrus or Blessed and then moving in to cause some damage before (0) out and sending in Howard or the Coryphee Duet (woot it could work even on narrower ruling) for a follow up would kill pretty much anything or multiple things close together, would be particularly useful to murder models which protect with auras [like certain totems] and the like on initial attack and then (0) in the actual master assassin.  This would also potentially let the Ice Golem really use his smash - imagine Blessed with Imbued energies Fast and leap into something then does some damage if it has AP left [either on something nearby primary target or as a warm up] and next activation (0) in the Ice Golem to engage and make something a bloody smear on the snow, damn .

Blade & Claw could be incredible.  I imagine it must have limitations not apparent yet, otherwise simply wow.

This turned into a very long post.  

 

[madaxeman]

Well Rehearsed on a model near Joss could be entertaining.....

[AgentRock]

I spruced up some portions of the post, including more information on poison gamin. That said, this isn't our job and we don't want to infringe entirely on Wyrd IP, so we didn't spell out every detail from the book. Apologies if your questions aren't answered by this post. 

[farabaugh100]

Yep the Mage upgrade does not have a rare attached to it.  So it can be taken on as many models you want(are Oxfordians Mages rare 3?)  You could take 3 mages, take the new upgrade on one of them and pay 17 ss for them.  However the upgrade does not count towards the mages upgrade slots and cost 0 ss so it would be pointless to do this.  

[retnab]

Thanks for sprucing the article up! Going through everything again I'm not really seeing any losers which is good. The poison gamin and kudra seem to both really want the Scorpius which I don't have much interest in. Carlos seems like he'll be a fantastic combat henchman alternative to Firestarter for Kaeris, and Amina's abilities just scream "Take me in an Ironsides HPM crew" to me. Lots of goodies in our bag it seems!  

[Jordon]

Kudra sounds decent enough for a 7ss model. Arcanists have plenty of good high cost beaters so i'm happy to see another cheap option. I'm not quite sure what role she'll fill but she looks like she'd make a decent scheme runner / scheme runner assassin.

I am a little concerned with the poison gamin. They barely seem to be on par with ice gamin who under BOW has a 2/4/5 damage with the same melee value, wounds and even has a ranged attack. Also not requiring a pre-existing condition in order to maximize damage and relying on poison itself as a form of damage. Perhaps in a fully themed poison crew it may perform better but I can't help but feel a little underwhelmed upon first impressions. 

[farabaugh100]

Something I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone suggest yet is having Banasuva copy Frozen Heart from Ice Gamin.

[retnab]

12 minutes ago, farabaugh100 said:

Something I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone suggest yet is having Banasuva copy Frozen Heart from Ice Gamin.

That'd be handy if you're against a Paralyze / Horror heavy crew but what really jumped to mind for me was Explosive Demise 2 from the Ice Gamin, combined with the built in Flaming Demise that's 3 damage and a Burning for everything around when it dies (which Kudra can handily trigger when needed).

[dancater]

8 hours ago, AWOL said:

I spruced up some portions of the post, including more information on poison gamin. That said, this isn't our job and we don't want to infringe entirely on Wyrd IP, so we didn't spell out every detail from the book. Apologies if your questions aren't answered by this post. 

Thanks,

Enough questions have been covered that I am really looking forward to getting my book and theory-crafting.  Hell without your posts I'd not even know we have a Showman..

So thoughts..

Sandeep looks cool but as I've heard mentioned elsewhere (cf Schemes and Stones) is maybe more a versatile fighter who can also buff and summon than a pure summoner.  His primary summon will be the totem and after that maybe the opportune Gamin as AP and cards permit to frustrate strat and scheme completion.

Banasuva is the totem, he's in effect free and hits hard while taking up space.  What else need be said.

Kudra looks like a aggravating to eliminate scheme runner and anti scheme runner kill piece.  Her attacks could have use in a poison spam list (Marcus, maybe Colette or a devoted Sandeep build) otherwise I can see it being a nightmare for lower Df minions scheme runners who rely on armor to protect them - charge in and 4x1 dam death of a thousand cobra bites with Poison to finish if needed.  She looks irritating to kill, I imagine her Wds are 7, hopefully Df 6 and Wp 6 we'll see - if she is Wk 5 and Ch 7-8 she'll definitely have a place in certain builds and strat/scheme pools.

Amina is simply a great concept for me, like her.  She appears to be a great little irritating crew buff and denial piece.  She obviously appears to resonate most strongly here with the good lady Ironsides but I think she may have some resonance with almost any Arcanist master, Mei Feng also seems interesting (but not a construct which is a negative).  The tricky thing will be at 9SS she really has to compete in a tier of some elite Arcanist models.

The same of which can be said for Carlos.  He appears to be a hybrid Firestarter-Show(man)girl and the critical question will be what does he bring that Firestarter does not (for 2SS less) and in comparison to Joss and Cassandra (who both cost the same and are worth every precious death rock).  Lots of burning and some area denial, so obvious resonance with Kaeris and maybe Mei Feng.  Big questions on durability and speed which will determine his strat/scheme utility.  The 9SS Arcanist slot is looking so damn fine.

Poison Gamin at the moment look very niche.  The poison and beast makes a clear reference to Marcus obvious, also interesting potential use with Blade & Claw upgrade.  Otherwise I don't think on first blush that they look tricky/fast enough to be 1st class scheme runners, the don't have the reliable damage output to be cheap surprise killers and they don't appear terribly durable (next to Metal Gamin or Spiders or Rail Workers).  So they are looking like Fire Gamin which rarely see the field except for specific niche builds because something else at the same price does whatever they do better.

Shaster Vidya Guard are an enigma, they really need a full theory-craft.  Who will they work with?  Do they have any inter-crew build resonance?  What will certain upgrades do for them?  They seem to move pretty well with some pushes and such and the damage track is OK but 8SS is a damn big payout and the question is are they in any way superior to Large Arachnid, Slate Ridge Circus Mauler, Cojo, Rattler, Gunsmiths which are all around there value not to mention Kudra at 7SS and the aforementioned deep Arcanist 9SS henchperson pool.  They may simply suffer from comparison underwhelming syndrome.  We'll see.

Circus Bear is excellent and interesting.

Temporary Shielding will depend largely on whether (a) it dsiplaces the Ward upgrades which the Ox Mage need and (b) do I need three to benefit from the -1SS/cost, as that is my impression.  Ox Mages x3 at 15SS with the three Wards are an interesting selection, but very expensive.  If Ox Mages lose Ward then nope.  If they reduce each Ox Mage to 5SS then why not simply a errata.

Well Rehearsed seems OK but I need to study it, seems like it could have certain uses.

Blade & Claw.... well see my post above.  This could range from (unlikely) useless, to damn... that is good, to wow over the top excellent and opponents wail, to the hopefully equally unlikely shit that is broken and it simply should not be allowed because it simply devastates all around it.  The precise wording and play of this upgrade including which models it effects at what range and when will be the single most important uptake for Arcanist's and there opponents in the RoF release.

[AgentRock]

One interesting way of looking at Sandeep is that, typically, your master gets to go once in a turn and then their cool abilities are unavailable for the rest of the turn. With him, you have the cool spells all turn long potentially.

 

[Fog]

1 hour ago, dancater said:

Temporary Shielding will depend largely on whether (a) it dsiplaces the Ward upgrades which the Ox Mage need and (b) do I need three to benefit from the -1SS/cost, as that is my impression.  Ox Mages x3 at 15SS with the three Wards are an interesting selection, but very expensive.  If Ox Mages lose Ward then nope.  If they reduce each Ox Mage to 5SS then why not simply a errata.

 

They keep ward. It takes three to reduce the cost.

Worst case, your token Mage gets a shield for free.  If you want to take more, you get a discount.

[retnab]

Question about Well Rehearsed, with a Union Miner's False Claim could you get two 2" pushes from 1 AP on top of the Claim's other perks?

[Bengt]

8 hours ago, retnab said:

That'd be handy if you're against a Paralyze / Horror heavy crew but what really jumped to mind for me was Explosive Demise 2 from the Ice Gamin, combined with the built in Flaming Demise that's 3 damage and a Burning for everything around when it dies (which Kudra can handily trigger when needed).

The write up says Kudra sacrifices gamin, not kill them. Both Explosive and Flaming Demise explicitly only work with killed.

[Krosanreaper]

8 minutes ago, Bengt said:

The write up says Kudra sacrifices gamin, not kill them. Both Explosive and Flaming Demise explicitly only work with killed.

I believe the write up got it wrong, what I saw says 'kill target friendly gamin' so it would trigger them to explode and drop markers. An important distinction to be sure.

[Bengt]

Shastar Vidiya Guard might be nice with Kaeris as a model to slap burning on (pretty much always involves a Df duel), letting you cycle a card. Unless the ability requires it be against an enemy or something.

[OctaBit]

8 hours ago, Krosanreaper said:

I believe the write up got it wrong, what I saw says 'kill target friendly gamin' so it would trigger them to explode and drop markers. An important distinction to be sure.

Ya it says kill, not sacrifice.

 

So what do people think of Blade and claw? Personally I think this thing is bonkers. If all three of the models are on 50mm bases and are in a straight line at max range you can get a potential 23" place, as a (0). You also have a 50/50 chance of getting it off the top of the deck. Pair this with models who are both constructs and beasts and this can be really flexible. The ones I can think of off the top of my head are poison gamin, scorpius, and the RN (with marcus).

[Bengt]

2 minutes ago, OctaBit said:

So what do people think of Blade and claw? Personally I think this thing is bonkers. If all three of the models are on 50mm bases and are in a straight line at max range you can get a potential 23" place, as a (0). You also have a 50/50 chance of getting it off the top of the deck. Pair this with models who are both constructs and beasts and this can be really flexible. The ones I can think of off the top of my head are poison gamin, scorpius, and the RN (with marcus).

So the model with the upgrade doesn't move? He swaps two other models with each other? Can you move your Master if he is Ramos/Marcus or is there some restriction?

In any case it seems powerful, especially with some crazy fast guys like Raptors and Doves. And it's fairly easy to make anything a Beast with Raptors. Making anything a Construct requires Mei+Sparks right?

You could even make Ice Golem SMASH!