Schemes & Stones Wave 4 Previews (Sandeep)

[Khyodee]

Let us know your thoughts on the show here.

http://schemesandstones.podbean.com/e/episode-445-wave-4-previews-sandeep/

[Krosanreaper]

I've been waiting and it's great to hear about Sandeep. It's too bad about Kudra being underwhelming.

[Fog]

49 minutes ago, Krosanreaper said:

I've been waiting and it's great to hear about Sandeep. It's too bad about Kudra being underwhelming.

Butterfly jump is amazing. Four attacks is great against things with armor. Poison lists are going to be a thing. Killing a friendly gamin as a zero would have been very helpful at gencon.

[katadder]

Kudras upgrade being able to remove gamin means you can place them where you need when you need them, plus the wind gamin ability when dying. Also get auto burning trigger when needed on ranged means I think you will see the upgrade.

poison gamin getting +1 damage if the target has poison is also nice, then you can do your 0 to make them take their poison as well. and if you really want to then using them with performers is good as each gamin can do 1/3/4 ranged and upto 4 poison over an activation, then do your performer siren call and take it all at once.

also we do have good 5ss minions - rail workers are great, performers are good, union miners are good. and even the hoarcat pride has its place

 

 

[BFOmega]

21 minutes ago, katadder said:

also we do have good 5ss minions - rail workers are great, performers are good, union miners are good. and even the hoarcat pride has its place

 

 

Also, Oxfordian mages are 5 with the upgrade in the new gen upgrades box. Though only if you take all 3...

[Dereikt]

Kudra's Df/Wp trigger to draw a card-is it specifically against enemies, or against anyone? If it works against friendly actions, it has a lot of potential to be useful.

[retnab]

Can anyone give a written wave 4 overview please? I'm excited to listen to the above but can't for another week due to unreliable internet and I'm going a bit batty with all the half spoilers I'm getting.

[Krosanreaper]

One thing I disagree with is that the academic upgrade is not that great. Oxfordian mages are already very good with Sandeep combine getting a card back when you flurry and the (0) place effect to lay down some hurt. And if Sandeep didn't activate Arcane Shield should prevent the damage to himself. Combine with the new upgrade to make them cheaper and I may well take three in almost every Sandeep crew.

Edit: So it's still pretty good but Sandeep needs to activate and use a one action to let him get the card back, tough it does last until his next activation. So you pop the card draw turn one and then if you furious cast/flurry with an academic turn two Sandeep will have arcane shield up to stop the ping to himself. No range or line of sight on this ether.

[Fog]

2 hours ago, Krosanreaper said:

One thing I disagree with is that the academic upgrade is not that great. Oxfordian mages are already very good with Sandeep combine getting a card back when you flurry and the (0) place effect to lay down some hurt. And if Sandeep didn't activate Arcane Shield should prevent the damage to himself. Combine with the new upgrade to make them cheaper and I may well take three in almost every Sandeep crew.

It also enables bringing the valedictorian who, imho, really enjoys access to a zero teleport

[hydranixx]

1 hour ago, Fog said:

It also enables bringing the valedictorian who, imho, really enjoys access to a zero teleport

I won't lie, this is the most exciting part of Sandeep's upgrades for me. I'm already shopping for suitable ways to build my own Arcanist-themed Valedictorian. I can't wait to let the Valedictorian show up with Arcanist upgrades when I declare Arcanists. I quite like the option of putting warding runes on her, maybe coupled with Imbued Protection, and a pair of discounted Oxford Mages.

[decker_cky]

31 minutes ago, hydranixx said:

I won't lie, this is the most exciting part of Sandeep's upgrades for me. I'm already shopping for suitable ways to build my own Arcanist-themed Valedictorian. I can't wait to let the Valedictorian show up with Arcanist upgrades when I declare Arcanists. I quite like the option of putting warding runes on her, maybe coupled with Imbued Protection, and a pair of discounted Oxford Mages.

Needs to be a trio of Oxfordian Mages to receive the discount. 

[hydranixx]

Three it is, then!

[dancater]

Interested to know is Kudra anything beyond an Academic (I assume she is), most particularly is she a Showgirl?

Also what speed does she bring, is she fast enough that she could be utilized as an interesting and tricky to kill scheme runner, at 7SS she seems affordable enough for this.

Lastly would she be relevant to a Marcus poison list beyond just her cobra attacks, or even a Colette list (getting back to Showgirl...)?

Disappointed all round with this box (outside Sandeep himself) on first blush review, you folks seem to indicate that it brings nothing new and where it does add (poison mainly, perhaps a cheap henchman and another Marcus beast) it is underwhelming or merely buffs slightly (inadequately) a niche Arcanist build (poison).

Is the Poison Gamin a construct (you talked about it being 5SS and not a Mech Rider summon, but would that not also require construct?), is it construct/beast or like the wind gamin established a non-construct gamin model.

For 5SS I support that Rail Workers and Performers both do some solid heavy lifting in there own ways.  Otherwise the other Arcanist 5SS choices are more below av to average and situational, which appears to be the slot the Poison Gamin is shooting for.

Of course all final opinions are reserved until I actually get my RoF book, hopefully by the end of the month (go Wyrd mail-minions!) 

[Jordon]

I just finished listening to the episode and I have to admit I was surprised how underwhelmed they seemed to be. I think Sandeep will absolutely be talked about in a years time and I think he's one of those onion masters that has deep layers to him that can only be explored slowly. Is he going to de-throne Colette? Probably not, but considering she's considered one of if not the (especially since the Levi update) most powerful master in the game, I think it's a bit of an unfair comparison.

I was especially shocked on how little they valued the academic upgrades. People loose their mind over rush of magic and Sandeep can basically benefit from this multiple times a turn. Imagine burning a 1 or 2 card to furious cast and in the process draw some high card in return. This combo's especially well given that he's going be hunting for those 12's to summon banasuva or those mask suits for his leaping (0) actions. Almost every single academic has some sort of discard effect which will make running an academic heavy list actually viable in my opinion. 

I also disagree that the Ox Mages are bad models. They are extremely potent with Ironsides and I think they'll be even better with Sandeep. Making them 5ss by hiring three is excellent. I can't really think of many 5ss options that can dish out the damage that these guys are capable of. Also worth pointing out that by standing near other academics they not only get their triggers, but they also automatically trigger Sandeep's "student of all" ability, which will give Sandeep a free AP. I'm not sure about the wording on academic upgrade, but does the discard to give Sandeep an extra AP benefit from his upgrade ability? If so, that's a whole lot of synergy. 

I also wonder about the effectiveness of Kadru, but one thing I might have missed was her point cost. Those abilities might not be anything crazy for a 10ss model, but on a 7-8ss model, there might be some merit. 

 

[dancater]

Agreed I want to really look at her compared to Firestarter, a 7SS henchman who is fast, scheme-y and adds interesting options.  How does Kudra stack up here.

It is a false framework to put her next to Cassandra (9SS and superb), The Captain (10-12SS because his upgrade is awesome), Joss (9SS construct tank-beatstick).  All these hench(wo)men are exceptional, flexible and see Arcanist list time regardless of master but they are at or near the 10SS (usually they sport at least an upgrade) mark.

Snowstorm (11SS) is a great henchman but really sees action mostly in Rasputina's crew's and Myranda (8SS) is interesting and can often get a look in simply as a economical way to get a more expensive Arcanist beast.

So Kudra would seem to fill a different role here, several factions have multiple cheaper 7-8SS range hench(wo)men and until this release we've had Firestarter and Myranda and honestly Myranda is extremely situational in particular if you are not planning to shapeshift her into something with teeth, claws and an abundance of rage.

So back to Kudra vs Firestarter.  This is why I want to know speed details, poison details and other synergy things.  Firestarter is a great scheme runner (where he is fast and dangerous enough to complete the tasks and fight off 90% of other scheme runner models) and niche supporter with fire build type crews (Kaeris, Mei Feng).  Will Kudra have similar utility, is she fast, durable and dangerous enough to solo flank schemes? Will she have real poison synergy and is that even a viable Marcus or Colette build yet?  Is she a Showgirl with all the interactions that can bring (which given how solid Colette already is I honestly doubt, but would love to see).

[drafterman]

Where did they get the info on the other models' abilities and upgrades? All I've seen is Sandeep's card.

[Wolfpact]

30 minutes ago, drafterman said:

Where did they get the info on the other models' abilities and upgrades? All I've seen is Sandeep's card.

The book is in the wild, for GenCon attendees at least.

[Fog]

I definitely feel that Sandeep will shake things up in a fantastic manner.  I'd put him up by Ramos and Colette in terms of viability. He's versatile, bringing either an entirely sufficient amount of combat support alongside his considerable combat presence or an unhealthy focus on scheming that isn't nearly as straightforward as were used to.  He does a lot of work himself, and his summons add to the pile. He's difficult to put down, beyond mobile, and can be built to suit all manner of pools.