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Blacks85

Kirai...looks like a pain

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After few games vs Kirai, I think we might have a problem with it :D
(of course, only when the schemes are bloody and you have to constantly keep attacking and activating the Malevolence aura)

Best idea came to my mind, is to deny vision from attacked model and the source of the malevolence...problem? GREMLIN are freaking small...all Ht1 so you can't really block LoS.

Gremlin - generally speaking - have huge amount of damage but they are kinda soft to slice...so every time you shoot or beat something, the Ikyro will punish you pretty hard.

Any idea on how to deal with Kirai and its aura?

Surely, discard his hands with Som'er is game changer, but if you don't run it?

Its crew usually suffers from CA action which are only ligthning bugs? but again, they will be likely 1shotted from the spawned Ikyro.

Also....what do you usually run as master / model vs resser? Because you are only find out if Kirai is there after the cards are revealed, of course :D

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I have yet to face Kirai, but did you consider Sammy? She has a CA action that only does two damage but a) removes Triggers or b] walk and charge action c] if friendly are around, they have to take a WP dual.

Also Wong's Magical condition comes to my mind.

Then there ae the different Squeel abilities, to push out of Melee range.

This is just me quoting from the top of my hat with actual NO gameplay knowledge.

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Kirai is a nightmare. I know this from my own experience but I think Gremlins might have a bit easier on this field.

Get Pigapult and surround it with your own models during deployment. On turn 1 kill Lost Love with it (Ikiryo won't be able to be summoned in b2b with Pigapult). Then use Pigapult to hit models which are out of Kirai's aura.

Also don't hesitate to use Trixibelle's lure on enemy models - pushing them out of Kirai's aura to punish them later seems good idea. 

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So I took a closer look at the card.

I would willfully force Ikiryo out and hold her in place with Sammy as long as I can. Maybe sth. that can take the hit and reliably Squeel away (Master / Henchman).

If Ikiryo is locked into place I argue that he can't summon her again.

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Ikiryo tends to take one swing and sacrifice itself to avoid that. Usually she'll only stick around if it's near the end of the turn and she can basically get a free activation before flitting away next round. 

I think Bayou Gremlins or other dispoasble sources of Dumb Luck are probably quite good. The issue with Ikiryo (or one of them) is that she pops up as soon as you hit something, immediately stopping your shooting and then possibly killing your model. Disposable plebs with good single-shot damage are probably better that models who want to rapid-fire or stay unengaged/in play. 

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55 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

Kirai is a nightmare. I know this from my own experience but I think Gremlins might have a bit easier on this field.

Get Pigapult and surround it with your own models during deployment. On turn 1 kill Lost Love with it (Ikiryo won't be able to be summoned in b2b with Pigapult). Then use Pigapult to hit models which are out of Kirai's aura.

Also don't hesitate to use Trixibelle's lure on enemy models - pushing them out of Kirai's aura to punish them later seems good idea. 

You made my day !! :D

I didn't read the card, so I didn't know she has to summon into base contact!!

This makes thing much, much easier to counter. You can play with positioning, use the blocking terrains and shoot with model in the middle onto lost love to take it away and remove one of the aura...or just kill what you have to....and the ikyro won't pop-up

Surely it's not easy, but it's a very possible workaround.

And yeah, trixiebelle is definitively strong...More I play Gremlin, more I can't see a crew without her...she does too much and - ofc - she cheat the initiative :o

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Summoning Ikyrio is also only on damage from enemy attack actions, so Zoraida/Brewie to Obey enemies to attack stuff, deal indirect damage through conditions (Merris's bottle comes to mind)*, or use tactical actions for damage (e.g. Stuffed Piglets). It's not the best because you obviously don't know who your opponent's bringing when you make your crew.

The other thing to bear in mind is that in most games you don't have to do any damage. Obviously in Reckoning/Collect the Bounty you're looking at killing stuff, but you can totally play super scheme running. Take things like the Distract family of schemes, play defensive and pray that the game doesn't go past turn 5.

 

 

* Actually, thinking about it now, Zoraida seems like quite a nice matchup for denying Ikyrio summons - you've got Obey and the Doll as damage dealers which won't trigger it, and you can bring a Nurse or two for control that won't trigger the summon either.

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Merris is great against Kirai. Stack the Burning on enemy models without actually hurting them with the attack is Kirai's nightmare.

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13 minutes ago, Kobayashi said:

How about a magical McTavish. 14" that even shoots into engagements and ignores incorp. is outranging the Ikiryo summon.

Ikyro summons is if you deal damage on a model in range of the Aura. It doesn't matter where your model is, its where the model taking damage is and she'll then appear next to the attacker. 

If you've got a couple of well placed markers to push McTavish out of Ikyros range after she has summoned, then its not a bad play though. 

 

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33 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

Merris is great against Kirai. Stack the Burning on enemy models without actually hurting them with the attack is Kirai's nightmare.

She's pretty good against Ressers in general. Burning doesn't care about Hard to Wound or Incorporeal.

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3 hours ago, Blacks85 said:

Also....what do you usually run as master / model vs resser?

Elite Somer list is really good against Summoners as wrecking their hand really ruins their day forcing them to play really cagey with their Master. So Trixie, Sammy with Encouragement, Francois, Merris, Roosters, Lightning Bugs, Slop Haulers, maybe Old Major with Saddle to cart Somer around in style (Gracie dies to Kirai, Nico, Seamus, and McM way too hard to risk taking her IMO) - something like that depending on Schemes and terrain and such of course.

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2 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

Summoning Ikyrio is also only on damage from enemy attack actions, so Zoraida/Brewie to Obey enemies to attack stuff, deal indirect damage through conditions (Merris's bottle comes to mind)*, or use tactical actions for damage (e.g. Stuffed Piglets). It's not the best because you obviously don't know who your opponent's bringing when you make your crew.

Indeed they are...problem is that you have to hire them before discover your opponent :P

Sure merry, thinking about it, looks a very versatile model to hire if you have couple of schemes based on interact / scheme markers. Zoraida is surely a boom vs this crew...how is vs Resser in general? Wp is above average - I guess - having pretty low def?

2 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

The other thing to bear in mind is that in most games you don't have to do any damage. Obviously in Reckoning/Collect the Bounty you're looking at killing stuff, but you can totally play super scheme running. Take things like the Distract family of schemes, play defensive and pray that the game doesn't go past turn 5.

Absolutely true, but if the schemes can be achieved without killing, I suspect that hiring Kirai is not the best choice! I think she shines when crew are forced to fight.

54 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Elite Somer list is really good against Summoners as wrecking their hand really ruins their day forcing them to play really cagey with their Master. So Trixie, Sammy with Encouragement, Francois, Merris, Roosters, Lightning Bugs, Slop Haulers, maybe Old Major with Saddle to cart Somer around in style (Gracie dies to Kirai, Nico, Seamus, and McM way too hard to risk taking her IMO) - something like that depending on Schemes and terrain and such of course.

Yeah, that's the team I've played yesterday but with Ophelia, I feel is more effective when you have to do pure DMG !! Strategy was headhunter so not really need to summon around.

It worked out, but I feel that playing Kirai better would have destroyed me..that's why I'm searching for tips :P

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1 hour ago, Blacks85 said:

Absolutely true, but if the schemes can be achieved without killing, I suspect that hiring Kirai is not the best choice! I think she shines when crew are forced to fight.

I would have thought her one downside is summoning injured or easy to kill models which makes her more vulnerable to Make Them Suffer and the like. If the schemes don't call for killing she's perfectly happy summoning away while doing a bit of killing to gain the edge on activations and AP. That's my experience of playing against her anyway. 

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don´t forget Malevolence requires a LIVING or UNDEAD model damaged within 6" and then dicarding a card or soulstone. With a bigger hat you can prevent it, but also attacking models who are outside the bubble or models who are just spirits. On the other hand, if the enemy likes to be really inside the bubble, someone like Wong may have a good time (even more if you take sammy for the Oh glowy)

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15 minutes ago, aquenaton said:

On the other hand, if the enemy likes to be really inside the bubble, someone like Wong may have a good time (even more if you take sammy for the Oh glowy)

With Wong's casting attacks, blast and pulse damage, and ability to teleport out of melee, he's a good choice for taking on Kirai.

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3 hours ago, Adran said:

Ikyro summons is if you deal damage on a model in range of the Aura. It doesn't matter where your model is, its where the model taking damage is and she'll then appear next to the attacker.

Although one thing you can do is use long range attacks from a sacrificial isolated sniper to put out damage onto models in the aura. Your opponent then has to make the choice between letting them snipe with impunity or summoning Ikyrio far away from the rest of the fight. You could use McTavish for that, but I'd lean more towards someone like Rami.

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Wong can be a pretty big counter. He isn't scared of Incorporeal and she doesn't want to bunch up against him really. If you have Burt or the Lovely Assistant you can also try and use Crackerjack timing to pull things out of the aura. I also would strongly consider Brewie because Swill makes summoning a pain and  he isn't doing much to summon Ikiryo if you're stacking poison and killing with a performer. Ikiryo also needs to flip or cheat in a 7 just to act if she summons near Brewie. Like has been said before you can also Obey a model out of the aura to kill it. IF you can get her poisoned and in the drinking contest she'll have a tough time sacrificing and that's almost as good as burying her? Kind of? I duno, I love Brewmaster so I tend to look for ways to use him anyway. 

 


Wong is probably safer.

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26 minutes ago, Kobayashi said:

Suggested a Wong Crew before. Got ignored. Now Mason's stealing my Thunder. FeelsBadman .__.;

#StealingKobayashisThunder

#GreatTactics

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15 minutes ago, Flat Tooth said:

Wong is probably safer.

It could be, like Zoraida surely is.

The point is...are they generally good masters vs resser?

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Wong is a good choice but I would also second the Pigapult (surrounded by four 30mm base models to prevent the Ikiryo from being placed in based contact with it). It may not have a Ca action but its 3 attacks are usually sufficient to kill what it wants from across the table even at half damage. The half damage is also rounded up in the Pigapults favor. Lastly, it's Wp is also high enough to make Manipulative basically ineffective as a defense.

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15 minutes ago, Omenbringer said:

It may not have a Ca action but its 3 attacks are usually sufficient to kill what it wants from across the table even at half damage.

... but in a Wong Crew it can be a Magical Pigapult... It will be the same Pigapult, but ... I should look at the book before talking .__.

 

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17 minutes ago, Omenbringer said:

Wong is a good choice but I would also second the Pigapult (surrounded by four 30mm base models to prevent the Ikiryo from being placed in based contact with it). It may not have a Ca action but its 3 attacks are usually sufficient to kill what it wants from across the table even at half damage. The half damage is also rounded up in the Pigapults favor. Lastly, it's Wp is also high enough to make Manipulative basically ineffective as a defense.

How you'd get max from pigapult? would you surround and feed with stuffed piglets? 

Isn't too much expensive being like 8+2+2+2+2 = 16 SS or what mechanics do you use to keep it shooting?

I've always wondered...never used it yet.

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Sure about that? Wong's Glowy can't be placed on the Pigapult as it is a Peon. This was to prevent it from being absolutely ridiculous, and during play testing it definitely was.

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