We have a summoning master!

[tomjoad]

1 hour ago, Tokapondora said:

The catch-up summoning sounds far too unreliable as that's not even a point you can work towards and can only really get to by making a lot of errors...

I'd say that taking the upgrade when the scheme pool allows you to select one or both schemes that don't score until the game ends (or which you can score all 3 points for on turn 4 or wherever) should be easy enough. If they score any points early, you get free guys. If they don't, then you at least know what they're doing and can try to stop them. They can try to stop you too, but you knew the upgrade was going to be in play, so you can have built with this in mind.

[Adran]

7 hours ago, Tokapondora said:

I'd say you shouldn't be able to kill a model, summoned or not, by landing one condition removal attack? I kind-of fear the opposite that, if it's just 4/6 inch one well timed hire of a condition removal unit will completely negate this master's, let's be honest, one pony trick. Minus the summons she doesn't exactly have much at least on her card, and if the summons can be wiped away that easily she would really lose all her use if her opponent decides to bring 1/2 condition removers (and that's ignoring how they disappear the turn they're summoned normally).

Why? there are plenty of attack actions that can kill a model in 1 hit. 

Also you only spent 1 AP to summon the model, so why is removing it for 1 AP unfair? 

There are not very many ways to remove conditions from enemy models. I think there are currently 4 ways to do it, Johans sh attack, the Witchlings (0) action, Justices pulse, and the low river monks attack. 

Edit - I've missed Chiaki (I thought she was friendly) and The mysterious emissary so we're at 6

(Scion, Dreamer and Arcane Effigy are all friendly only).

 

[trikk]

Witchlings Dispel Magic is a (1) but it requires a suit

[santaclaws01]

Also Mysterious Emissary can remove conditions as a built-in trigger on its attack. And this is ignoring the fact that one of Asami's upgrades prevents enemies from removing condition from her models, though we don't yet know the specifics of that.

[chris_havoc]

Chiaki and Lady J too. Scion of Black Blood only removes conditions from friendlies but when have Neverborn struggled to kill models? Thinking about NB, I just realised that Obey vs Asami may be pretty potent. Get a Charge for your Obey and damage the master at the same time as Obeyed models still count as friendly to their hired crew.

 

I'm not sure exactly, I may have missed a few, but these are the Condition removal models I can think of:

Guild: Lady J, and Witchlings

Ressers: Chiaki

Arcanists: I don't know?

Neverborn: Dreamer, Mysterious Emissary (apparently?), and Scion (but he doesn't count here)

Outcasts: Johan (also available to everyone else)

Gremlins: I don't know?

10T: Chaiki, and Low River Monks (hey they can kill something!)

It's a weakness for sure but an Upgrade that prevents models removing Conditions pretty much remedies it. Thus, too big an area of effect on the Upgrade negates it entirely, so why include it at all? Hence, I feel small(ish) aura and the timed nature of the Summons should be fairly balanced but, as has been stated before, this is all speculation and time on the table is the real test, not to mention the actual cards. I am excited I think she will be competitive and beatable from what I've seen and excited to get her on the table.

[-Loki-]

Just now, chris_havoc said:

Mysterious Emissary (apparently?)

Mysterious Emmisarys basic attack action, Nature Reclaims, is a 1" melee or 6" ranged attack with a built in mask. Mask trigger removes all conditions from the target. Also has a Tome trigger to remove all scheme, corpse and scrap markers within 4" of the target.

Almost feels purpose built to combat Asami.

[Skitt_Happens]

On the subject of condition removal: would you take condition removal of your own? I usually don't like to leave home without it, but it could potentially be used against you with obeys. The upgrade won't help you as it is friendly removal. Maybe LRM, as if they are not stood next to you it would take 2 obeys....?

I was speaking to a very highly rated player locally recently, explaining Asami's card has he hadn't read it. He plays Dreamer to a very high level, and his reaction to Asami's summoning was: "that's really great! Summons only usually last a turn or two anyway." In the case of front line summons, I tend to agree. What makes Asami's summoning so interesting is the dilemma it forces on your opponent: there is a jorogumo on full wounds that is going to dissappear at the end of the turn, do I spend AP to kill it or just leave it to do its thing? Either answer is a win for Asami. If the summon is staying around longer, it becomes more likely the opponent will waste more and more AP on it, therefore in some situations keeping Flicker down may be advantageous: imagine you summon a Joro on f+1 and a tengu on f+3; your opponent is counter intuitively going to focus on the Tengu, allowing the Joro a single turn of kill-crazy-rampage!

[D_acolyte]

On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 11:59 AM, D_acolyte said:

I would not be surprised if we see another 3-4 models in the book but I would do not  think we would see a more then 1 other oni minion because they want to spread the love. Though they may double dip into another faction a bit like with the 10 thunder puppet. Come on one 10 thunder and another resur only ancestor each, fingers crossed. Yes that is a far flung wish.

One of my friends asked me to explain something about why I thought Asami would only maybe get one more minion. See the quoted post.

The answerer is numbers of models based on subtypes and ability alignment. This is not counting masters like Marcus that can grab large section from other faction or Ramos that type alignment can be most of his faction.

Most older/well established masters often have a similar trend, not including totems and zero stone models:

2-4 henchmen/enforcer or minion/peons and 3-5 of the other group.

Misaki: 2 henchmen and 3 minion

Lynch: 2 enforcer and 4 minion

Yan Lo: 4 henchmen/enforcer and 3 minion

The Dreamer: 5 henchmen/enforcer and 3 minion/peons

Feel free to check others yourself. This also works with other factions. Also subtype summoners tend to brake this but that because as the game goes one they need more of there subtype to round out or improve there summoning or something like that, with Molly braking it the most.

There are still a few master that are low on this and I would rather see them get a bump, such as the Brewmaster that is 2 and 2. It is really easy to look at this with the subtyping as compared to abilities.

So back to Asami. She is at 2 henchmen and 4 minion. The only argument I can see for giving her more then one other is that compared to other subtype summoners that average about 8-9 models her summoning pool is small and rather focused. Yes I know I am already braking the above statement, it not a perfect world only one that we can try and understand. Also her summoning seem to be rather close combat focus, with her Wrath of the Oni and that most of them look to be combat models. I would still rather them give the space to other masters.

For new masters I would not be surprised if the spread is closer to 1-2 henchmen/enforcer or minion/peons and 2-3 of the other group.

[Adran]

Its largely a good breakdown,  applying to Masters with an otherwise unused keyword, but once you  look at undead, or spirit it really doesn't work. 

I just want to say Sonnia has 2 henchmen, 2 enforcers and 2 minions.

 

[D_acolyte]

6 minutes ago, Adran said:

Its largely a good breakdown,  applying to Masters with an otherwise unused keyword, but once you  look at undead, or spirit it really doesn't work. 

I just want to say Sonnia has 2 henchmen, 2 enforcers and 2 minions.

 

Your right I missed the starter box, I will go correct that.

Also Undead, Living and Construct really amount to the same thing for me, which is why I excluded Ramos. There are a lot of constructs in the Arcanist faction, so much so that it is not a limitation at all. As for spirit it and horror tend to brake the trend which is why I called out Molly as she can do both.

[santaclaws01]

8 hours ago, chris_havoc said:

Chiaki and Lady J too. Scion of Black Blood only removes conditions from friendlies but when have Neverborn struggled to kill models? Thinking about NB, I just realised that Obey vs Asami may be pretty potent. Get a Charge for your Obey and damage the master at the same time as Obeyed models still count as friendly to their hired crew.

 

I'm not sure exactly, I may have missed a few, but these are the Condition removal models I can think of:

Guild: Lady J, and Witchlings

Ressers: Chiaki

Arcanists: I don't know?

Neverborn: Dreamer, Mysterious Emissary (apparently?), and Scion (but he doesn't count here)

Outcasts: Johan (also available to everyone else)

Gremlins: I don't know?

10T: Chaiki, and Low River Monks (hey they can kill something!)

It's a weakness for sure but an Upgrade that prevents models removing Conditions pretty much remedies it. Thus, too big an area of effect on the Upgrade negates it entirely, so why include it at all? Hence, I feel small(ish) aura and the timed nature of the Summons should be fairly balanced but, as has been stated before, this is all speculation and time on the table is the real test, not to mention the actual cards. I am excited I think she will be competitive and beatable from what I've seen and excited to get her on the table.

Dreamer can only remove conditions from friendly models.

[Tokapondora]

Now I know her upgrades arent fully out and we dont know what's in the box and yada yada, but what sort of schemes do you think you'll be taking her for? And besides a handful of Oni, what units do you think would play nice with her?

I could see Chiaki and Tannen working as pseudo-bodyguards, with their cooler/bored/luck and removing conditions/purity, but beyond that I'm sortof left guessing. Yu depends a bit on if she gets any other 0 actions, because as it is now he'd only gobble up her resources, though the pushing of scheme/scrap/corpse markers in her general direction could do wonders for her summons. The +1 to focussed attacks helps too I suppose. Though with that it really looks to be an extremely bubbly-y crew. Not really seeing much else for now.

For schemes, from the looks of it, something fighty and fairly stucktogethery. I can't see her summons operating far away from her and I can't see her operating without a small wall of meatshields surrounding her. Also, the need for death means she wants to be close to the action, which the front of her card really seems to disagree with. I'm guessing she's gonna need some reliably tanky units around/in the way of chargelines and Turf War all night long.

[santaclaws01]

51 minutes ago, Tokapondora said:

Now I know her upgrades arent fully out and we dont know what's in the box and yada yada, but what sort of schemes do you think you'll be taking her for? And besides a handful of Oni, what units do you think would play nice with her?

I could see Chiaki and Tannen working as pseudo-bodyguards, with their cooler/bored/luck and removing conditions/purity, but beyond that I'm sortof left guessing. Yu depends a bit on if she gets any other 0 actions, because as it is now he'd only gobble up her resources, though the pushing of scheme/scrap/corpse markers in her general direction could do wonders for her summons. The +1 to focussed attacks helps too I suppose. Though with that it really looks to be an extremely bubbly-y crew. Not really seeing much else for now.

For schemes, from the looks of it, something fighty and fairly stucktogethery. I can't see her summons operating far away from her and I can't see her operating without a small wall of meatshields surrounding her. Also, the need for death means she wants to be close to the action, which the front of her card really seems to disagree with. I'm guessing she's gonna need some reliably tanky units around/in the way of chargelines and Turf War all night long.

She's probably gonna hang out at the same range Lynch does, and he's even less durable than she is, while having an as large, if not larger, target on him than she does. She's want to stay closer togeher so schemes and strats that involve spreading out won't be ideal to how I think she'll play, which is ironic because summoners tend to excel in schemes where you spread out. Even without any good (0)'s you can still take Yu as a source of fast, or just take the Emissary and use it as a minion buffer on top of everything else it can do.

[Kobayashi]

On 27.7.2016 at 0:51 PM, chris_havoc said:

Gremlins: I don't know?

McTavish and Mancha Roja with the Mud Toss upgrade (Rare 1 and only limited to them).  It's a (1) action on them.

They even can retake this action for free with a Tome and damaging a friendly Gremlin within 3".

Though I am still starting and don't know if the list is exhaustive

[Skitt_Happens]

With the new faction line-ups being revealed, I must say I'm surprised. As Ripples of Fate doesn't have a rules element I was expecting a Crossroads style book: lots of models, few story encounters. It seems that there are only going to be a few models for each faction, and I guess lots of story encounters and fluff. Probably the correct thing to do for the game as I don't want to see models created for the sake of creating new models. But I can now see Acolyte's PoV:

On 22/07/2016 at 4:59 PM, D_acolyte said:

I would not be surprised if we see another 3-4 models in the book but I would do not  think we would see a more then 1 other oni minion because they want to spread the love. Though they may double dip into another faction a bit like with the 10 thunder puppet. Come on one 10 thunder and another resur only ancestor each, fingers crossed. Yes that is a far flung wish.

So: consider Asami's available summons. We know Tengu (4), ObiOni (6) and Jorogumo (9). Yokai are in there and based on the description from the webpage:

"Yokai are reliable melee models with good versatility, who are particularly strong summons for Asami."

I'm expecting them to fit in at 5-6ss. I expect we will see one more Oni minion coming in at around 7ss (the Punk Zombie magic).

Tengu have a trigger to drop schemes; ObiOni have a trigger to drop scrap; hoping that the 7ss I hypothesise  (Jade Oni?) Lops of limbs to drop corpse markers.

I'm also hoping for sumo wrestlers, because... well... Eddie Honda. Vintage Misaki reminds me of Chun Li...

[Nexus]

13 minutes ago, Skitt_Happens said:

I'm also hoping for sumo wrestlers, because... well... Eddie Honda. Vintage Misaki reminds me of Chun Li...

Worst case scenario, you could always try to do something with this guy to make him kinda like E.Honda.

[Cadaverousbirth]

14 minutes ago, Skitt_Happens said:

With the new faction line-ups being revealed, I must say I'm surprised. As Ripples of Fate doesn't have a rules element I was expecting a Crossroads style book: lots of models, few story encounters. It seems that there are only going to be a few models for each faction, and I guess lots of story encounters and fluff. Probably the correct thing to do for the game as I don't want to see models created for the sake of creating new models. But I can now see Acolyte's PoV:

So: consider Asami's available summons. We know Tengu (4), ObiOni (6) and Jorogumo (9). Yokai are in there and based on the description from the webpage:

"Yokai are reliable melee models with good versatility, who are particularly strong summons for Asami."

I'm expecting them to fit in at 5-6ss. I expect we will see one more Oni minion coming in at around 7ss (the Punk Zombie magic).

Tengu have a trigger to drop schemes; ObiOni have a trigger to drop scrap; hoping that the 7ss I hypothesise  (Jade Oni?) Lops of limbs to drop corpse markers.

I'm also hoping for sumo wrestlers, because... well... Eddie Honda. Vintage Misaki reminds me of Chun Li...

That's what I assumed for the Yokai as well. 5-6ss probably with armor+1 and to Ml (two weapons) with average walk/charge and hopefully something special. 7ss Jade Oni sounds really cool. Only a couple days until we can see the new shiny.

[tomjoad]

46 minutes ago, Skitt_Happens said:

With the new faction line-ups being revealed, I must say I'm surprised. As Ripples of Fate doesn't have a rules element I was expecting a Crossroads style book: lots of models, few story encounters. It seems that there are only going to be a few models for each faction, and I guess lots of story encounters and fluff. Probably the correct thing to do for the game as I don't want to see models created for the sake of creating new models.

Both of the reveals so far have what appear to be 7 unique new units, and 11 new Guild sculpts plus 13 new Gremlins. If they're adding nearly 50 models to the game in one shot, that feels like a pretty big expansion to me. Plus, we don't know how many story encounters or additions to Shifting Loyalties or any other new thing might be included. I'd be worried about the influx of new models, but I have faith that both Justin and the great and handsome playtesters did a good job nailing these guys down.

[Skitt_Happens]

5 minutes ago, tomjoad said:

Both of the reveals so far have what appear to be 7 unique new units, and 11 new Guild sculpts plus 13 new Gremlins. If they're adding nearly 50 models to the game in one shot, that feels like a pretty big expansion to me. 

Yes - I am referring to unique units. New models in rules terms, not plastic. It's more similar in scope to Shifting Loyalties than Crossroads.

[tomjoad]

2 minutes ago, Skitt_Happens said:

Yes - I am referring to unique units. New models in rules terms, not plastic. It's more similar in scope to Shifting Loyalties than Crossroads.

Well, for raw numbers, it's close. SL added 41 new units, but a new Master feels like it should count extra. 49 new units is understating how big an addition RoF is, in my opinion.

[-Loki-]

10 hours ago, Skitt_Happens said:

With the new faction line-ups being revealed, I must say I'm surprised. As Ripples of Fate doesn't have a rules element I was expecting a Crossroads style book: lots of models, few story encounters. It seems that there are only going to be a few models for each faction, and I guess lots of story encounters and fluff. Probably the correct thing to do for the game as I don't want to see models created for the sake of creating new models.

It's a bit unfair to hold any new book up to the core rulebook or Crossroads. Those books were all about updating the wealth of existing units from 1.5E to 2E, with a few surprises here and there like the odd new unit or a henchman being promoted to a master. Now we've fallen back to the normal amount of units Wyrd used to do in 1.5E books.