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'After damaging' triggers


daniello_s

Question

Recently we had a discussion at the tournament about timing for 'after damaging' triggers. The issue was: I hit Lucas McCabe with my Mech Rider and tried to used his Arcane Ritual trigger which says 'after damaging enemy model place a Scheme Marker'. Attack went through and I flipped 2 damage which McCabe prevented with soulstone. My argument was I should still place Scheme Markers even when the actual damage was prevented and I used this entry in the latest FAQ as my argument:

14) Q: When a Gremlin deals damage and activates the Dumb Luck Trigger, does the gremlin take half of the total damage flipped, or half of the damage actually put onto the target? For example, if Dumb Luck caused the target to suffer 4 damage, but the target had Armor +2, reducing that damage to 2, would the Gremlin take half of the original 4 damage, or half of the 2 damage suffered after accounting for Armor?
A: The Gremlin takes half of the total damage flipped, so the Gremlin in the example would suffer 2 damage (4 divided by 2). This answer applies to any Triggers which generate something based on the amount of damage

My opponent (TO) and other players said that if there is no damage (as it was prevented) then trigger didn't kick off. I was arguing that once the damage flip is done then the trigger kicks off (after damaging) as damage prevention/reduction come after damaging as well.

 

Was I right or wrong? ;)

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You were wrong. The FAQ answers are for a specific situation and do not apply generally, and in this case it's actually more of an errata than an FAQ because it goes against how the trigger is written.

Pg 32 of the big rulebook says "After damaging: These effects happen after Step 5 and only if the target suffers 1 or more damage from the action"

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Like Dogmantra wrote, the FAQ is a pretty big "reinterpretation" of the Dumb Luck text:

Quote

Instead of its normal damage, this Attack deals 2/6/8 damage to the target and this model suffers damage equal to half of the amount the target suffers.

and one of the reasons why the FAQ has that warning about not taking an answer for one question and applying it outside of the scope of the question.  In other words, for Dumb Luck specifically the amount of damage suffered by 'this model' is half what the target originally suffers before reduction and prevention.

 

The other half of "Why you was wrong":

Quote

18) Q: If a model suffers 0 (zero) damage, does it count as having suffered damage?

A: No.

That's the FAQ entry for why "The target model sees your damage, reduces it to 0" or "... reduces it to X and then prevents it to 0" means that the After damaging trigger condition isn't satisfied.

 

 

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19 hours ago, lusciousmccabe said:

It's kind of confusing and comes from the fact that there used to be a distinction between damage dealt and wounds received which disappeared betwen editions but still applies to Dumb Luck (and other things like OBJECTION!!!).

Yeah, as we were discussing this with Rob it is really a 'grey area' in the rules and is a bit confusing ;)

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Sadly, this is one of those poorly defined rules that seems to work one way for certain things and another way for other things. For Dumb Luck it's based on the damage card, but for triggers and Leveticus apparently it's based on the final number of wounds lost. Every game has these kinds of rules, fortunately Malifaux only has a couple.

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