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Help me to find value in Mah Tucket !


Blacks85

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I am still not sure why the Flame Walls are now Blocking and Impassable instead of just Hazardous and Soft Cover, it makes them a lot more potent than they should be for a 1 AP action that succeeds on a 5+. It could be argued that Rasputina's Ice Pillars are just as potent however, they don't cause damage at a range of 1" either. That gives the Flame Walls a lot of extra board presence that the Ice Pillars don't have.

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1 hour ago, Omenbringer said:

I am still not sure why the Flame Walls are now Blocking and Impassable instead of just Hazardous and Soft Cover, it makes them a lot more potent than they should be for a 1 AP action that succeeds on a 5+. It could be argued that Rasputina's Ice Pillars are just as potent however, they don't cause damage at a range of 1" either. That gives the Flame Walls a lot of extra board presence that the Ice Pillars don't have.

I think that both Flame Walls and Ice Pillars are entirely silly - especially when you can double up on them. Just absurdly powerful and force you to consider them when building any table basically lest it become completely lop-sided if one players decides on an obstacle Master.

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24 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

I think that both Flame Walls and Ice Pillars are entirely silly - especially when you can double up on them. Just absurdly powerful and force you to consider them when building any table basically lest it become completely lop-sided if one players decides on an obstacle Master.

had this happen at the last tournament. The table had 2 roads of sorts and the raspy player was able to completely block any LOS or even movement for most of the board. She could drop them at the right moment and do her thing, then just popr them back up so i couldn't retaliate. I managed to win, but it was a very strange battle and quite uphill due to 4 ice pillars on the board. 

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Mah is in my top 3 favorite gremlin masters.  I've had a lot of success with her.  Thing is, I started as Neverborn, and had a lot of pain getting used to Lilith before I finally liked her.  So when I switched to Gremlins and picked up Mah, I didn't have much to adjust to get good with her.

 

The main trick I learned with Lilith that I brought to Mah is to ignore her box.  I like the Bushwackers, but I agree that their discard abilities don't synergize with Mah well.  They're solid stats make them worth it for me, because those stats are well above average for gremlins.  I tend to use Trixie with her, but the emissary is a good replacement if you want to use it anyways, just so you get the Chore you want.

 

When I ignore the box, it means I'm hiring my crew for scoring my points.  Strategy and schemes rely on them, and then Mah is just there to screw up my opponent.  So far, she's only failed me once in this regard.  However, since she's just there to murder hard, it doesn't matter if she dies, so as long as she's done a good amount of damage, I don't sink resources into keeping her going if it's not completely necessary.

 

Generally I bring at least one other melee beater with her, as long as it's fast enough to keep up with her.  The Whiskey Golem, Lucky Emissary, and Mancha Roja are good candidates.  Mancha especially.  If you get the Ram for Chores that's +1 Ml, and his (0) action can give himself another +1 Ml.  If you want to be a real jerk and sink a lot of points into 2 models of death, I've been meaning to try the Emissary and Mancha together with Mah.  Emissary can slow/paralyze, Mancha can get the instant kill.  If you're smart and run Old Cranky with them, use Mah's pushes to keep them in range, then you can guarantee that Mancha always has the soulstone for his finishing move trigger.

 

Mah gets a lot of crap, but honestly I prefer her to Ophelia.  I can run Mah anytime I want with any crew I want.  If I run Ophelia, I feel like she is required to bring and stay near Lenny.  Without Thinkin' Luck, her damage isn't reliable enough.

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6 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

I think that both Flame Walls and Ice Pillars are entirely silly - especially when you can double up on them. Just absurdly powerful and force you to consider them when building any table basically lest it become completely lop-sided if one players decides on an obstacle Master.

Zipp's Noxious Smoke is going to be similar and is also larger. Really dont understand why it is both blockable and impassable given that it shouldn't be solid.

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9 hours ago, Four_N_Six said:

If I run Ophelia, I feel like she is required to bring and stay near Lenny.  Without Thinkin' Luck, her damage isn't reliable enough.

I often merely rely on SS or high Rams to get Thinkin' Luck with Ophelia as I find Lenny to be really limiting positioning-wise and also a bit of a liability. You can also shoot Ophelia's other guns and they do similar damage as Mah tends to do.

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6 hours ago, Omenbringer said:

Zipp's Noxious Smoke is going to be similar and is also larger. Really dont understand why it is both blockable and impassable given that it shouldn't be solid.

True and not true...Zipp must place the markers into base contact with it, so it has to loose movement points to get in position and the markers will be positioned sub.optimal because they all have to touch it....

The Raspu-Sonnia and also Lilith and friends LoS blocking markers...are insanely strong because they are touching each other and positionable far away...just ridiculous strong. They shouldn't be there in this game imo

55 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

I often merely rely on SS or high Rams to get Thinkin' Luck with Ophelia as I find Lenny to be really limiting positioning-wise and also a bit of a liability. You can also shoot Ophelia's other guns and they do similar damage as Mah tends to do.

I agree with this...High rams in hand or SS are perfectly fine to trigger kaboom! 

Furthermore, I hate Lenny for the moment...tried it few times but too slow to keep up with the crew and stupidly low WP/DF :D

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7 minutes ago, Blacks85 said:

Furthermore, I hate Lenny for the moment...tried it few times but too slow to keep up with the crew and stupidly low WP/DF :D

The usual with Ophelia is to first Toss her with Lenny and then Ooh a Girl Lenny after her. Helps him keep up. But I suppose you knew that and meant that once the match really start going Lenny is often in the wrong position and messes up activation order or has been Pushed wherever by the enemy or whatever and on that I agree.

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3 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

The usual with Ophelia is to first Toss her with Lenny and then Ooh a Girl Lenny after her. Helps him keep up. But I suppose you knew that and meant that once the match really start going Lenny is often in the wrong position and messes up activation order or has been Pushed wherever by the enemy or whatever and on that I agree.

exactly.

With saddle gracie or ophelia pushes you easily keep up on turn 1 (maybe2 if lucky)....but as you wrote than the game starts and poor lenny find himself behind looking his team with comforting distance :D

when lucky, he can try to shoot for new bacon :P

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9 hours ago, Blacks85 said:

True and not true...Zipp must place the markers into base contact with it, so it has to loose movement points to get in position and the markers will be positioned sub.optimal because they all have to touch it....

The Raspu-Sonnia and also Lilith and friends LoS blocking markers...are insanely strong because they are touching each other and positionable far away...just ridiculous strong. They shouldn't be there in this game imo

We will have to just agree to disagree on Zipp's Noxious Smoke potency, particularly in regards to the base contact requirement equating to "sub-optimal" placements. Zipp is going to play a lot different than any of our other Gremlin Masters and a large part of that is tied to his movement. Placing those three 50mm based Noxious Smoke markers optimally isn't going to be that difficult.

I do agree though that these markers are incredibly strong (especially the Shards of Kythera) and should not all have the fatal combination of Ht 4+, Blocking, and Impassable. Many of these (Flame Pillars and Noxious Smoke) should be Dense and perhaps Hazardous instead. This is one reason why Lilith's Illusionary Forest is less often complained about than the others. This is especially true given the high terrain recommendations for Malifaux as compared to other systems.

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I think that both Noxious Smoke and Shards of Kythera are a lot better designed through the fact that they at least go away at the end of the turn rather than the beginning of the model's next activation which gives you a lot more chance to try and stop them from being there blocking a given path for the whole game and forces the opponent to activate early if you want to block effectively.

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Just a thought, but has anyone tried Mah with Sparks and/or Porkchop?  You could give Ma Metal Platin' or give her an extra positive flip to attack with Rage Machine.  Then there's survivors, who are cheaper than Bushwhackers and Roosters, but still hit reasonably hard both at range and in melee, and are also a lot tougher.  She could maybe run a very efficient mechanical horde if she wanted to.

Mah Tucket with Out for Blood, Know the Terrain, Dirty Cheater - 4 pt

Lil' Lass with Lead Lined Apron - 4 pt

Sparks - 7 pt

Porkchop - 7 pt

3 Survivors - 15 pt

Slop Hauler - 5 pt

Rooster Rider - 6 pt

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6 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

I think that both Noxious Smoke and Shards of Kythera are a lot better designed through the fact that they at least go away at the end of the turn rather than the beginning of the model's next activation which gives you a lot more chance to try and stop them from being there blocking a given path for the whole game and forces the opponent to activate early if you want to block effectively.

While agree that is an improvement my primary issue with the shards is that it also gives the Mindless Zombie (Corpse Counter). That just really puts it over the top for me.

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4 hours ago, Omenbringer said:

While agree that is an improvement my primary issue with the shards is that it also gives the Mindless Zombie (Corpse Counter). That just really puts it over the top for me.

I agree, too strong.

14 hours ago, Omenbringer said:

We will have to just agree to disagree on Zipp's Noxious Smoke potency

I kinda can agree with you regarding the sub-optimal placement due to base contact. I've made few drawings and it came out that you loose a very small part due to this, so the cases when in game it makes difference...are probably a very small amount.

But we have to agree to agree :D that placing in base contact force you to spend AP to move in the best spot before use it (even if the mobility of this model is indeed the best of the game)

...while other model can just place it wherever they want without spending AP to move in position

10 hours ago, Clockwork_Fish said:

Just a thought, but has anyone tried Mah with Sparks and/or Porkchop?  You could give Ma Metal Platin' or give her an extra positive flip to attack with Rage Machine.  Then there's survivors, who are cheaper than Bushwhackers and Roosters, but still hit reasonably hard both at range and in melee, and are also a lot tougher.  She could maybe run a very efficient mechanical horde if she wanted to.

I see the use of mecha pork to boost charge of MAh...but why the rest of the team is heavily about survivors and sparks? 

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On 30/07/2016 at 8:10 AM, Blacks85 said:

I kinda can agree with you regarding the sub-optimal placement due to base contact. I've made few drawings and it came out that you loose a very small part due to this, so the cases when in game it makes difference...are probably a very small amount.

But we have to agree to agree :D that placing in base contact force you to spend AP to move in the best spot before use it (even if the mobility of this model is indeed the best of the game)

...while other model can just place it wherever they want without spending AP to move in position

Well yes placement in base contact does requie you to be in the right spot, but practically no its probably not more AP. 

Sonnia/Rasputina still has had to move to somewhere to see where she wants to drop the walls (normally). In practise if there is a great spot for the walls then Zipp can probably get to a place to drop the smoke in around the same AP as Rasputina or Sonnia. 

If there is more than one place you want to cover, then Zipp is less versatile, or at least more AP expensive. But he is the only one of those 3 with placement tricks that lets him take most advantage of the Blocking markers. 

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On 7/28/2016 at 11:21 PM, Math Mathonwy said:

I often merely rely on SS or high Rams to get Thinkin' Luck with Ophelia as I find Lenny to be really limiting positioning-wise and also a bit of a liability. You can also shoot Ophelia's other guns and they do similar damage as Mah tends to do.

Totally agree. Pick your moment to go full blast and spend the SS to make it happen.

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On 2016-07-30 at 3:10 AM, Blacks85 said:

I see the use of mecha pork to boost charge of MAh...but why the rest of the team is heavily about survivors and sparks? 

Cheap melee gremlins that are a lot tougher than Rooster Riders.  Roosters are great, but they're like grenades and once they go off, you won't get them back.  Survivors are basically little green Rail Workers.

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  • 5 months later...
On 29/7/2016 at 10:55 PM, Clockwork_Fish said:

Just a thought, but has anyone tried Mah with Sparks and/or Porkchop?  You could give Ma Metal Platin' or give her an extra positive flip to attack with Rage Machine.  Then there's survivors, who are cheaper than Bushwhackers and Roosters, but still hit reasonably hard both at range and in melee, and are also a lot tougher.  She could maybe run a very efficient mechanical horde if she wanted to.

Mah Tucket with Out for Blood, Know the Terrain, Dirty Cheater - 4 pt

Lil' Lass with Lead Lined Apron - 4 pt

Sparks - 7 pt

Porkchop - 7 pt

3 Survivors - 15 pt

Slop Hauler - 5 pt

Rooster Rider - 6 pt

Really like this idea but I think I would change some stuff (mainly for personal preferences :) ) .

I would go something like this

Man tucket - know the terrain, dirty cheater and an extra defensive upgrade depending on the faction I'm facing- 3pts

2x survivors - 10 pts

Sparks - 7 pts (don't know what upgrade woulb be good to take, maybe hide in the mud or do over)

1× Mechanical porkchop - 7pts

Slop hauler - 5pts

2× bayou gremlins - 6 pts (you need some runners ;) )

At this point you are at 38 as, so I would add an extra beater, like for example the Lucky emissary (10pts) with the conflux

here you have 6 as of chache and 9 models, with more or less all the capability to do very scheme :)

You could also drop the bayous and pick up a cheaper beater in order to take some stuffed and the lucky effigy :)

 

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The way I want to play her is:

-mah (know the terrain)

-old cranky

-trixiebelle

-gracie  (dirty cheater)

-burt (dirty cheater )

-1x slop hauler

-1x piglet

-2x bayou gremlins

47ss/7ss cashe

The idea is to go all in turn 2 or 3 and kill big stuff or go home. Kill enemy master or vital support pieces or miranda before she transforms ect. The crew can afford to have max buffs for a given turn. Cheat initiative, :+fateto attack, +1ml. High mobile crew anyways. So you can hit&run through a neverborn crew for example. Risky but can be knock out turn 2. Easy win or lose and that saves your mentality for the next rounds in a tournament. Mah by herself is malifaux in difficult mode BUT anybody knows what rasputina (for example) do. Not anyone knows what mah does. So they cannot see the sucker punch coming. The final thing I want to add is that: mah is a simple master. This doesn't mean that she is easy. She needs proper care to work. Her crew must be simple as well. 

 

My crew idea analysis is: bayou are scheme runners or bombs. By that i mean they charge and you execute one of them the vital round. Gracie and burt dont need any explanation.. and trixie will do the schemes or disable the model you hate the most on the board. Old cranly will pay back some ss if used correctly or draw fire instead of burt for example. Finally the slop hauler in this list is an offencive piece and not a healer. He may heal after the vital turn but you want to utilise his 8" charge and his df4 blast attack. Imagine now 2 models with df4 getting hit by your ml7 beaters on positive flips. It has to be a slaughter. If you go wrong. .. you just go home and you have half an hour break to smoke amd drink a coffee for the next round!

Feedback??

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Forgot to say the piglet's role. It will tie something or pull a model. It dies difficult against shooters or models that target df and its charge means that it can backup mah and slop hauler by stopping an enemy counter beater. If you suspect armor or movement shenanigans pick somer or wong who are top tier masters:P

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I run her very elite, and will be in the first round of a tournament this weekend.  Mah, Whiskey Golem, and Burt Jebsen with Old Cranky nearby (gotta pass that attack from Burt to Cranky for Frame for Murder).  The rest of my crew is about annoying my opponent and scoring points.  Fingers will probably be around for the same reason.

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