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Brewmaster, How do I drunk?


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Slinging suds isn't as easy as it appears. Brew and crew have a slew of sweet tools for inebriating our enemies to death but at the same time it seems that while his mechanic is totally radical it doesn't actually deploy very well against ye old tried and true masters one faces most of the time.

As a Gremlin leader I think drinking contest is much more viable. There's plenty of activation burners, poisoners, and most importantly Trixiebelle who helps ensure you win those very important initiatives without which you'll just be hoping you get to activate and toss up the aura or spread your poison before your enemies tear you up.  But, as a T10 I'm a lot less sure.

A few things need to happen to get this drinking shut down going, I reckon.

1) Need to get stuffed into your enemies stuff right away.

2) Jam them with poison

3) Put the aura

4) win the initiative

A bit of work! Plus, if you enemy spreads out at all or has any kind of pushes you're not locking them down anymore. Locking down 1 model with Brewmaster does not a game winner make.

I can't imagine that it's even a worthy tactic to plan around. Sure, if the stars align and you jump when the jumping is good you might catch an unwary foe with his pants around his ankles and a lamp shade on his head. Much like Misakis shadow bury thing, its not a mechanic you can rely lie.

No, I think Brewmasters true T10 power is in his Swill and Obey. But, what do we run with him?

If we're not slinging poison than quiet frankly we don't need Moonshinobies or Fingers or even his totem, WHO BY THE WAY I FOUND OUT IS NOT DUEL FACTION! That's a 5 stone totem when you pay the upgrade tax and just for a resummon which only matters if you plan on jamming with Brewhooey. In a Ten list I would drop him.

But, our original question remains, how do I Brewmaster then?

At this point, we have to find way to maximize his Obey and Swill. What I've been thinking is this: use obey to abuse recall training.

We take:

Brewmaster (no upgrades - honestly he doesn't need them). 7 Stones cache

Two Tengu for schemes

Loan Salesman I mean Lone Swordsman with Recall Training

Graves with Recall

Sammy Rye (Samurai)

Izamu with Recall

I'm pretty sure about my math but thats around the idea.

 

 

The battle plan would be to burn recalls and after the models activate you use brewmaster to force them to attack against, to get more work from the upgrade. Because, hey Recall is a super stupid amazing upgrade. Then when they are all gone, you use his Swill to shut down key models and prep them for death. Last you can always obey the sammy rye to shoot his big ole gun a bunch.

 

Any ideas beyond this? Has anyone had any success with Punky Brewster at a 10T?

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I've had fun with Brewmaster in TT. Drinking contest is a plan C attack. 

 

Brewmaster in TT is all about Wp tests. I only use Hangovers and obeys. Misdirection is a nice upgrade if you want to get brewmaster into the thick of things.  

 

Yin is a great Wp attacking tarpit. Also, Brewy can obey models to walk into Yin's range and fail the horror duel (model now paralyzed). Ama no zako is an option (rather than Yin) if lots of ht 1 models are going to be around (gremlins).

 

The performer loves Wp duels too. She can expunge poisoned models or push Brewy if he gets into issues  

 

Izamu is great. He is a nice target for misdirection if you lose initiative after starting a drinking contest. Recalled training on him is unnecessary if strats and schemes don't require killing. 

 

With Izamu and Yin in your crews, Komainu (who also attack Wp), gain an auto slow trigger.

 

Throw in a couple of Tengu for scheme running, and now you've got a solid crew. 

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To me, Brewmaster is Picking Poison. It's not the effects of the suits I really care about; it's all about hand control. Don't care about the actual poison and is more of a curious side-effect that seems to happen on occasion.

I always take him with Yin and Yu and the rest of the crew is almost fodder. I only take his totem/grems when I know it's gonna be scheme heavy and even then not always. The basic play seems to consist of; Find a decent/toughish unit, make Yin give it a - on WP, drain their hand with Pick yer Poison. With a fast Brewmaster, that's 4 cards discarded, 5 if they tried to cheat first, and it will generally only cost you 1-2. That is, unless they actively kill off their own unit which frankly Im taking as a win. The beauty, I find, of PYP is that they're not just gonna discard the lowest cards; they're gonna avoid certain suits over others. Even if they know you just want to drain their hand, its hard to force your model into paralyzation or an obey and in the odd case they just start trying to get rid of cards in their activation just so you cant make them. I've had huge models stuck in paralyzation loops from either discarding crows or being obeyed into Yin that lasted for 3 turns until they finally decided to discard that 11 just to kill him off.

Then, with their relatively empty hand, your Brewmaster standing behind something though or using his 0 to get away, your crew can swoop in and go to town on their largely luck-based plays while you can pick key moments to block their strikes or land your own. Hell, if you luck out and the opposing model does die early or they run out of hand or w/e, you can just minus whatever strong happens to be around.  

I dunno, I always use him hyperaggressively with I suppose little regard to his own safety, draining every enemy model in sight. If I absolutely have to I can always choose to Obey or Swill a bit over PYPing, but with Yu's constant repositioning, Yin's strong support/tarpittedness and One for the Road to get him and Yu all over the field keeping huge control over that 12" bubble... 

If I do get to a point where I need to hand out Drinking Contests I can easily adapt and throw a beater in for extra defense, 

Then, you fill your ranks up with whatever the schemes ask for. At least one big beater, then something tough, something scheme-y, something blue... It doesn't really matter to be honest.  As long as it can work to fulfilling your schemes.

One other specific model I like to take is Chiaki, for general condition removal, especially when Yu and Brewwie Poison+4 a model a turn and a Yin with Ca 8/9 isn't half-bad either. 

As for upgrades;

I try to include a fair amount of Recalled Trainings to keep your hand preserved even better.

Usually Brewwie has PYP and nothing else. A recalled training if there's no other models to use it on, Misdirection if Im expecting a lot of CC (This is more me knowing my Meta, but), and when it's incredibly scheme-y I might include a running tab.

 General SS cache does have to be at least 5, I feel. 4 on an absolute stretch.

Hasn't let me down yet.

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9 minutes ago, MinionJack said:

Obey allows you to target a non-leader enemy model. Am I misreading something here?

Obey targets a non leader model.  Heed my voice on the hungering Darkness only targets enemies, which you might be confusing it with, but Obey can target friends

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Brewmaster is The Amazing Swill Dispenser in TT. The condition can be used on Moon Shinobi to buff them, sure, but I'd rather not bother with them at all. Instead I take Sensei Yu with the Fermented River upgrade. Giving him Poison and - to his flips becomes a huge blessing and makes him a reliable punch machine. He might be even better with the Shadow Emissary's help.
Fuhatsu has proven to surprisingly useful as he looks scarier than he is in practice most games. He is an excellent meat shield - if you park him over something important (and close to you deployment zone) then keep shooting the enemy will have to take care of him one way or another.
A tag-team of Yin, Ama no Zako and Brewmaster seems like a Jack Daw level of creepy-crazy/annoying thing to do. I guess I have to test this :P

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13 hours ago, Tokapondora said:

Yin and Ama make one horrifying trio with Huggy that's guaranteed to lose you some friends. Should work with Brewwie to some extend I suppose, though without the aces to discard freely I think it'd be a tad too expensive.

You certainly meant a Terrifying trio, right? :P Anyway, I haven't tried the above with Brewmaster yet, so I don't know how well it works. Obeying Fuhatsu or a Samurai to shoot often seems a lot more reliable trick.

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On 18.5.2016 at 5:32 PM, E.T.A. Hoffman said:

No, I think Brewmasters true T10 power is in his Swill and Obey.

This is true on the Gremlin side as well. Focusing on Drinking Contest is a trap.

On 18.5.2016 at 5:32 PM, E.T.A. Hoffman said:

Brewmaster (no upgrades - honestly he doesn't need them). 7 Stones cache

Binge is pretty rad. You can use it to get an Obey on a friendly for any Masks card (no TN). This is also the reason why Wesley is useful as he can give your Master an extra AP. Not mandatory on the TT side, though, since he is so expensive due to the Upgrade tax.

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I've been pondering 10-T Brewmaster too. I haven't had many games with him yet but basically, I'm with @Math Mathonwy on Drinking Contest. In the right circumstances it can be great but without activation control from the likes of Trixibelle, it's not something you should ever plan for. Instead, Hangover and Binge seem to be the order of the day - drain the opponents cards and hit their key models with the Swill Condition to remove them as a threat (and make them FAR easier to kill!). 

For upgrades, he only needs Binge (for the awesome discards) and Misdirection (which gets better with Binge). The Tri Chi Gremlins aren't worth the 2SS tax for Running Tab and in fact I'd actually consider the Malifaux Child as a replacement to Wesley. He's not as good (obviously) but he's effectively 2SS cheaper and still functions as an extra Binge action to either drain more cards or give Brewie another AP (if you have a Mask to discard).

Brewie's ability to debuff Wp is handy, but as I found out in a game vs Guild it's not something you want to focus your crew on. Like Pandora, he needs a Plan B in case the enemy crew is resistant to Wp-based attacks. 

While Poison is not something I'd want to focus on, I do think there's value in taking a Fermented River Monk or two. With One for the Road you can both boost the monks and give the Brewmaster a push upfield to save on AP. After all, what else is he going to do with that (0) action? Drinking Contest? ;)

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20 hours ago, Adran said:

Obey targets a non leader model.  Heed my voice on the hungering Darkness only targets enemies, which you might be confusing it with, but Obey can target friends

Thanks. That reminds me yet again to watch what I read on pullmyfinger and not double checking the card. 

 

Well, that should improve my game a bit more. Maybe I can get opponents to rage quit earlier than the middle of round 2. 

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I really like the idea of using samurai with the health upgrade as a tank and obey target for Brewie. I also think the malifaux child is a solid option.

Yu with fermented river style is a lot of points, but I do like it. This would be one of those times I'd think to use that words on wind upgrade or whatever its called... the leader upgrade that adds a 0 action push for no duel. Sensei Yu can copy it, and it gives you a firm 0 action that can absolutely be used every turn twice a turn, if you aren't one for the roading or drinking contest.

I'm actually not a huge fan of fermented river monks, but that's only because when I did finally try them out, they didn't really do anything other than die. So that's probably piloting error.

Any form of big hitter has a place in a Brewie list for me. Obey is a poor man's prompt. And forcing a terrifying fail on a key model, or removing a key scheme marker can win games.

Hidden superstar I think might be the Shadow Emissary with Conflux of Inebriation. It's within 6" only, but it's really easy to get poison 3 on an enemy model with Brewmaster, but having a different angle for negative flips is amazing. Plus it gives another target for one for the road, because that poison fuels the emissary. Especially with Yin, who is the superstar of 10T Brewmaster. Passing out that negative to WP duels is so ridiculously good. With emissary and Brewie's swill, you have 3 sources of stackable negative flips. Yes, please.

 

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I'm still in my early days with Brewie so have not yet realised that Drinking Contest is a trap. As such having Mr. Tannen tag along has been simply marvellous for wasting the opposition's hand. My other staple is Lust, but I'm still calibrating my brain for her. ONE day I'll remember her :aura ...

My last game I worked out that Nihilists are legendary drinkers (mental note: DO NOT PLAY BULLET WITH A NIHILIST), but those Stolen cannot handle even a thimbleful of pisswater.

I'm holding off on buying more stuff now until I can actually field mostly-painted crews, so to my infinite sorrow Yin is going to have to wait. Tannen is nasty enough for the moment.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Has anyone tried running Anna Lovelace with Brewie yet (either Faction really)? If I played more often I'd be trying to see how handy she is at keeping enemy models trapped in proximity to Brewie. Plus she can hit Wp or Df, and cause Horror duels in :pulse3 of a model 10" away, but is a costly piece.

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On 5/26/2016 at 2:17 AM, InvokeChaos said:

...Yu with fermented river style is a lot of points, but I do like it. This would be one of those times I'd think to use that words on wind upgrade or whatever its called... the leader upgrade that adds a 0 action push for no duel. Sensei Yu can copy it, and it gives you a firm 0 action that can absolutely be used every turn twice a turn, if you aren't one for the roading or drinking contest...

...Obey is a poor man's prompt. And forcing a terrifying fail on a key model, or removing a key scheme marker can win games.

Hidden superstar I think might be the Shadow Emissary with Conflux of Inebriation...

I have already filled all my cups in preparation for the Shadow Emissary.
On Wings of Wind combined with Yu is an excellent idea, I thought the combo was great on Lynch but it never occurred to me to try it with Brewmaster as well... Silly me.
About actions like Obey, or Ama no Zako's Whispers, or Huggy's 'Heed My Voice': Can you really use them to remove enemy scheme markers? I have tried doing it before, but later there were arguments against it. While I control the action, the scheme marker I want to remove is still considered friendly to the model I am mind controlling - and the Interact tactical action specifically removes enemy scheme markers, but not friendly ones. Please tell me that I am wrong! This would bring Obey-induced shenanigans back into the limelight of my play :D

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1 hour ago, Eclipse said:

About actions like Obey, or Ama no Zako's Whispers, or Huggy's 'Heed My Voice': Can you really use them to remove enemy scheme markers? I have tried doing it before, but later there were arguments against it. While I control the action, the scheme marker I want to remove is still considered friendly to the model I am mind controlling - and the Interact tactical action specifically removes enemy scheme markers, but not friendly ones. Please tell me that I am wrong! This would bring Obey-induced shenanigans back into the limelight of my play :D

I suspect InvokeChaos is suggesting using these actions on your own models. It is as you say, that the markers are still "friendly" to the model being controlled.

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3 hours ago, ArcticPangolin said:

I suspect InvokeChaos is suggesting using these actions on your own models. It is as you say, that the markers are still "friendly" to the model being controlled.

You would be correct! I highly value out of turn interactions or free ones (one of Yu's most underused ability in my opinion is lowering his focus for a free interact). 

****TL;DR - Obey your own dude to remove enemy scheme markers. You cannot obey your enemy to remove their own scheme markers****

And I'm not certain about the removal of enemy scheme markers thing honestly. I've not looked into how that works. I know that the reason Heed My Voice makes the target friendly to Huggy (and only huggy) is so you can't heed into a paralysis. Though I can do that anyways if yin is near :D

As to the actual ability Obey or Whispers, I believe they just follow the book on whoever owns the model, that's how the interact is used. In other words, if I obey an opponent's model and drop a scheme marker, it's still my opponents. I would imagine much in the same way, you can't remove the scheme marker because it's "friendly" to the model. Interact to remove a scheme marker specifically says enemy scheme marker I believe. Controlling the person doesn't change their allegiance, just sometimes specifies who can be affected by who.

 

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1 hour ago, InvokeChaos said:

You would be correct! I highly value out of turn interactions or free ones (one of Yu's most underused ability in my opinion is lowering his focus for a free interact). 

This is why Lucius is so fun. Which reminds me that he should be in the 'Interests' section of my profile, next to 'Ten Thunders'.

1 hour ago, InvokeChaos said:

As to the actual ability Obey or Whispers, I believe they just follow the book on whoever owns the model, that's how the interact is used.

That's how I play it too, sadly you can't go too crazy with this. Was hoping I got that wrong :P

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  • 3 weeks later...

So for a few games now I have enlisted the help of other Crossroads  7 models and it's gone pretty well. I've gone from focussing on Poison to eating the opponent's hand, making constant Drinking Contests a pain, and most of my resources (hand and stones) goes into keeping Brewie alive.

My auto-includes are still Mr. Tannen and Lust and Misdirection on Brewmaster, and to expand on Tannen's Cooler ability I thought Pride might fit well. But he has to turn his ability on and it affects ALL models, and his regular :aura only applies if they cheated fate, which the rest of the crew attempts to minimise their opportunities for. But other band members chip away at either hand or health more easily, and are extra effective if the opponent is spending their AP pouring drinks down their gullet.

So my picks are Greed and Sloth, although Gluttony and Wrath were well-considered. Manipulative is solid (which when stacked with Intoxication, Drinking Contest and Cooler is devastating) so Greed is probably my favourite, as few models can actually use soulstones and she can potentially earn them back as well as well as eat into the opponent's supply with The Greed Spreads. Sloth gives the opponent less chances to escape if they take Slow, and can heal up someone in a pinch with his (0). I have been bringing a Monk of Low River along to help out with Poison, Slow and whatever else the opponent decides to dish out condition-wise. Sapping Reactivate from the enemy is also immensely satisfying. :P

Gluttony adds some potential movement antics to get more foes into or away from Brewmaster with Mad With Hunger, but could also potentially be a tool for the enemy to escape at the cost of 2 Dg. But unless Exhaust their Forces, Catch and Release, Distract or Cursed Object are in the pool the opponent is generally not going to be Interacting whilst engaged so his :aura works pretty well.

Wrath's Terrifying (All) is great to Obey enemy models to walk towards...

If Show Of Force is in the pool I have Recalled Training on Lust, Smoke Grenades on Tannen and Servant of 5 Dragons on Greed and Sloth just in case. I'd probably take those upgrades on the first 2 most games anyway. Lust is, put simply, an amazing model without :+fate to everything anyway, but can really ruin someone's day with RT.

I stone for cards many turns to fish for more :mask in hand for Misdirection and will usually Defensive 1 on Brewie, using stones to prevent damage when necessary or for a :mask when my hand is dry of them.

So, it's obviously not really a list for the likes of Reconnoitre, but if someone has a 10T Brewmaster list that is I'd love to see it! It's also not really a list for making friends as it is a pain in the balls flipping and flipping and flipping and not really doing anything. ALSO, BE EXTRA WARY OF BLACK BLOOD. That s**t is nasty.

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I tried brewie focused on pick your poison last night and it was really fun. It essentially came down to my opponent having to choose how important individual models AP is worth. I spent most of the game tying up Taylor with yin and brewie draining my opponent's hand. As fun as it was the game was supr tough since he was playing Hamelin with Johanna. Certainly looking forward to trying this out again. It was much more fun than the hoping drinking contest will shut down their crew. 

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I wanted to try out models i am less familiar with so i took:

Brewmaster w/misdirection and pick poison

Sensei yu w/ wandering river

Kamatachi

2 tengu

Yin

Emissary with shadow upgrade (didnt have brewmasters printed)

Komainu

It was guard the stash on corners with leave your mark and hunting party.  The pushes from the Emissary and Yu worked really well especially with yu's ability to steal brewmasters poison and push. 

I woud skip kamatachi in the future (jjust wanted to see him on the table), I also used Yu to help the tengu who didnt need the help. I also missed having shooting so would certainly find some space for a sniper or samurai in the future, or switch the komainu for a drunk monk. 

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