May 16th - Titania

[Justin]

11 minutes ago, retnab said:

, and how many masters has each faction received in the last few years with the edition transition, one each?  This seems like a perfectly reasonable level of growth to me  

Guild and Neverborn haven't seen a new Master since before second edition. (Though I suppose you could count the promotion of 1.5 Henchman to Masters as new Masters - I do not).

[Tawg]

16 minutes ago, Tokapondora said:

Why would they phase out masters for any reason? Tweak, sure, but... 

Anyways, this is so awesome. Really digging the different shapes and sizes, though I cant quite place some silhouettes with factions. Here's for a quick Ten Thunder reveal pls. x

Realistically, and I have no information about how Wyrd intends their game to run, but phasing out masters and creating a sort of "Format" style play system, where there is something like:

"All in": Where any models with ME2 are legal (Maybe have a banned list if there are issues).

"Middle in": After enough releases, there would be a middle ground.

and "Now in": Where maybe the last 2-3 years of models are "current" and in the format.

Essentially treating a tabletop game like Magic the Gathering.  So they can more tightly control the combinations for the most promoted tournament style, and alleviate some of the big issue of designed models having impact on older things in ridiculous ways.

Don't say people can't play them, but if things continue to be released, eventually things will get wonky, or unforeseen combinations will crop up which break things.  And I'm personally of the mind that they should never stop releasing the "big" models like Masters, because they drive the game so much.

So it wouldn't be the same as "phasing out" entirely, IMO, it would just be like how Magic the Gathering releases things at a steady rate and keeps them in control at the same time.  It's better than PP's idea of releasing "Theme bonuses" for paired Warcasters since you always bring 2 lists, and effectively just making those list more powerful for a season but doing nothing to address other issues.

_____________________________________________________

 

As for the art, stoked.  She actually looks like she would fit in well with the new "Asylum" models with her raggedy clothes They aren't really Fae though, if she has some shtick or something though.  But I do really have hopes for the theme (Fae) and the model looks great.

More importantly though, the third silhouette from the left looks like it is wearing a samurai hat and holding a feather in its left hand (right for us, it's facing us).  Maybe that's just me though, I just thought it looked weird

Of course if there is a vote being tallied, I vote 10T, how could I ever not vote for my favorite faction?

[Omenbringer]

2 hours ago, TheLostOne said:

The gremlin one is fairly obvious since you can see it's pointy fingers. My guess would be from left to right. Guid, rezzers, ten thunder, gremlins, arcanist behind the gremlin and outcasts

Wrong guess, the gremlin is the little flying one. See below.

1 hour ago, katadder said:

see the gremlin one from this other art, just not the rules for it.

Figured it would be an arcanist clone. Looks like a Kaeris imitator that will be leading those Sparks, the Survivors, and Mechanical Porkchop. Any bets on the Crew box for our new master?

25 minutes ago, Bengt said:

I don't get why some are so down on new Masters, a crewbox often have four unique models, sure there are some outliers like Perdita where every model is unique, but the Master-Totem-Henchman-Minions format i dominant. The last book had five models for most factions (nine for Guild/Neverborn) with one being a complex centre piece model, kind of like a Master. If Wyrd is going to continue to put out models for Malifaux some might as well be Masters.

Biggest reason is that Masters introduce far more complexity than other models because of not just their individual power levels but also the combination of Upgrades that are available to them (generics included) and the increasing pool of models that are hire-able by them. This makes balancing them more and more difficult as more are released.

I would argue that it is already impossible to balance things in the game, especially when coupled with the extremely short development and play testing cycles. Power bloat is a very real thing and is already rearing its ugly head. Just a few examples include the average stat values from book 1 being significantly lower than those of the newer books (especially in regards to the difference between Defense values and Attack Values, why Guild Guard are looking progressively worse each book) and the SS cost of newer models compared to older ones (many of the newer ones are values at their SS cost given their higher stats and versatility as compared to the older models which tend toward flatter stat lines and more specialized roles).

It is a natural progression of games (especially those that continually seek to release a lot of new models in a short period of time) and the reason for periodic re-balancing. It is untenable to think that adding a large amount of models each year (this value is inversely proportional to the amount of models already published, i.e. more models published, less models can be developed) can be continued for ever without catastrophically affecting game balance. Do we really want Malifaux to end up like Warmahordes where only a handful of models are honestly playable, while the vast majority of other models lay un-utilized even in "friendly" games?

[Gnomezilla]

I didn't read that as a samurai hat, I read it as flowing hair. So the Guild (the slender thing being a quill was a good argument, therefore goes with reporters, therefore Guild) is either a girl or the sort of guy we'd see on the covers on the romance half of the bookstore.

...Really hoping for a girl.

[Math Mathonwy]

She looks nice enough though not spectacular. In her own Faction she IMO beats Pandora, Lilith, Lynch, Dreamer, and Collodi sculpt-wise. Not as good as Zoraida or Lucius. The wings look great, the flame in her hand is just as stupid as every other flame in hand and the tattered clothing is not bad. Can't make out her face to judge it properly. Hair looks stupid in the render but that style hair always looks stupid before paint (you need the sheen to make it look good).

Might very well get this one, in fact.

[Omenbringer]

I would bet the 10 Thunders one is the crouching one with fingers out stretched in front of the Gremlin. Screams Drunken Monk to me.

[Math Mathonwy]

Just now, Omenbringer said:

Do we really want Malifaux to end up like Warmahordes where only a handful of models are honestly playable, while the vast majority of other models lay un-utilized even in "friendly" games?

Malifaux does have a leg up on WM/H in this regard due to the fact that you can choose your models after knowing the mission, terrain, and opposing Faction. Still, I agree with you that there will come a limit. Just saying that that limit will likely be higher than it is for most other games since you can have specialists for different tasks and have them be relevant as long as they do something really well in a specific set of circumstances.

But yeah, agreed.

[Buntman]

She's looking amazing! Like a dark Kaeris)

[Tawg]

4 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

I didn't read that as a samurai hat, I read it as flowing hair.

I didn't say my idea made sense, it just looked like that to me

2 minutes ago, Omenbringer said:

I would bet the 10 Thunders one is the crouching one with fingers out stretched in front of the Gremlin. Screams Drunken Monk to me.

Wouldn't a Drunken Monk be in some "falling over" stance rather than a bad-ass looking crouched battle pose?  Maybe I don't understand Drunken Monks enough.

[Omenbringer]

There are a lot of different forms in Drunken Kungfu, not all of them are falling over or prone. The transitions between them (somewhat of a favorite of Wyrd's preference for dynamism with martial artist models), often do present "a bad-ass looking crouched battle pose" before they spring into a strike or leap.

[Tokapondora]

It maybe sort of looks like (s)he's wearing a mask of sorts? Like a southeast asian animal mask (lion? with the brushed back hair). At any rate, I'm absolutely buzzing with excitement~

The cowboy I think isn't going to be Guild because there's already so many of them, so perhaps outcast?

The Medusa one has to be Resser seeing as neverborn is off the table. Maaaybe outcast just because its too weird for anyone to want to come near it?

The center one seems to be holding a feather? A quill? Also a silly hat if that button on top is anything to go by... Arcanists? Maybe Guild?

The flying bit is obviously Gremlin.

The fighting stance gives me a huge TT vibe, though Im sortof hoping its the Medusa bit. Id like more Oni support and huge hair would certainly help.

And the horse I can only really imagine Arcanist, though the fraying cloth gives a slight Resser/Outcast vibe.

[Omenbringer]

8 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Malifaux does have a leg up on WM/H in this regard due to the fact that you can choose your models after knowing the mission, terrain, and opposing Faction. Still, I agree with you that there will come a limit. Just saying that that limit will likely be higher than it is for most other games since you can have specialists for different tasks and have them be relevant as long as they do something really well in a specific set of circumstances.

But yeah, agreed.

A discussion to be had in another thread but there are already plenty of models in the pool that are optimal (read as versatile enough) in virtually every situation regardless of mission (mostly center weighted or built upon trading AP), terrain (not a huge issue honestly as most of these models have ways to get around it thru the increasing prevalence of Incorporeal, increased access to free movement triggers and actions, less  Attack Actions, and/or LOS ignoring actions), and Faction (there aren't a lot of hard Rock-Paper-Scissor things in the game, the kind that completely shut down a crew).

[Omenbringer]

12 minutes ago, Tokapondora said:

And the horse I can only really imagine Arcanist, though the fraying cloth gives a slight Resser/Outcast vibe.

I see this as a woman riding side saddle with a dress. Perhaps Arcanist though I could see Guild also.

[Norken]

I like the model.  It is going to make me finish painting some Neverborn models.

 

I don't get all the vinegar about new masters.  Seems like literally the same argument as would be applied to any new models only adjusted for scale of the effect.  Stagnating the game (and it is a game, a thing played for fun, not open heart surgery with consequences that matter) seems the most ridiculous possible reaction to the challenges of fitting more models into a design space.  As long as models are fair enough, with fun and interesting themes: who cares.  You can play the game and have fun while still having a reasonable chance to win.

[floso]

Master supporting with scheme markers looks.like a cool them.for neverborn. Like the rend and sculpt. Can't wait to see the rest!

[Louie]

My guess about the masters is from left to right:

Neverborn (duh, revealed)

Arcanists (Magic bullets, come on!)

Outcasts (Because all the freaks end up there!)

Guild (The quill and hat screams reporter-style to me, á la Malifaux universe. Since we saw some reporters in a previous preview, it would make a lot of sense if he/she was guild.)

Gremlin (Top)

10 Thunders.. Just a vibe

And lastly.. Ressers. None of the other masters gives me the resser feeling. 

 

Pretty sure about the Guild, Ressers and Gremlins.. The Medusae could be 10 Thunders, the pistolwielding master could be outcasts but I really hope not. Von Schill got that covered. Meaning the one below the Gremlin master could very well be arcanists too!

 

Anyway, my guesses

[tomjoad]

5 minutes ago, floso said:

Master supporting with scheme markers looks.like a cool them.for neverborn. Like the rend and sculpt. Can't wait to see the rest!

Yeah, the idea of using scheme markers as a resource outside of directly scoring points is an awesome idea.

[-Loki-]

I was almost done painting my Neverborn. Why do you do this?

[Lucidicide]

32 minutes ago, -Loki- said:

I was almost done painting my Neverborn. Why do you do this?

Because you secretly want us to.

[Gnomezilla]

1 hour ago, Omenbringer said:

Wrong guess, the gremlin is the little flying one. See below.

Figured it would be an arcanist clone. Looks like a Kaeris imitator that will be leading those Sparks, the Survivors, and Mechanical Porkchop. Any bets on the Crew box for our new master?...

Ungrounded Speculation?--OW! *gets smacked upside the head by an arc axe with to attack*

[The rest of the post was insightful but waaaaay above my pay grade. I only just got here.]

Also...drunken kung fu is an actual thing? With forms and such?

[BewareTheYalcrab]

Hmmm, interesting, interesting.  Here are my predictions:

1. Neverborn (obvs)

2. Initial reaction is Guild, but I could also see Outcast. Still sticking with Guild, though.

3. Ressers.  Perhaps the Gorgon? Surprised I hadn't seen anyone suggest this

4. I'm thinking Arcanists on this one. Silhouette kinda feels like it would be someone that aligns with either Raspy or Marcus. Feels very primal to me.

5. Gremlins based on size and (of course) the picture earlier in the post.

6. 10 Thunders. I feel like this character, thematically anyway, might tie into Sidir.

7. Outcasts.  Mostly because that's all that's left, but I could definitely get a Outcast-y vibe from that shadow.

 

I get why people might feel that new masters will risk cuddling the old ones, but considering that you tend to build at the table there are so many factors that go into play. You have to consider your opponent's faction, the available schemes and strats, and the terrain.  It's difficult to say what will happen in the end.

For  now, just be happy that you've got a model coming when you Through the Breachers play through the Nythera campaign.

[Pyrflamme]

Masters seem the most effective way to shake a meta up, new models might add new angles to a crew, but Masters change how a crew plays. I think the addition of new Masters won't necessarily bloat the game, but rather force new approaches.

[Stark]

49 minutes ago, Louie said:

Guild (The quill and hat screams reporter-style to me, á la Malifaux universe. Since we saw some reporters in a previous preview, it would make a lot of sense if he/she was guild.)

Yeeeap! Besides we can see the camera silhouette on her hip) It's obviously HQ reporter))

By the way - Titania is AWESOME! In my personal top-list of the best Wyrd models - she just took the first place (instead Death Marshals). 
Wyrd why are you doing this?! I still in the middle of painting of my second crew! I hate you, I want all models! When I will be painting them?!
Just kidding.I love you Wyrd :3 , you're the best and so you stay, I hope ))

[Omenbringer]

4 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

Also...drunken kung fu is an actual thing? With forms and such?

Well here is a pretty good over view of the style (8 Immortals Drunken Kung Fu).

Here are a few examples of the forms from Wiki How (not the best by easy to find).

Here is a decent video of how some of the Immortals Forms translate to real world combat.

And another video that shows some of the forms as they flow from one into another.

Failing that you can just go watch the old Kung Fu film Drunken Master with Jackie Chan and see some of it. One of my favorite films and well worth watching. I think it does a great job of showing that the style originates from a very strong base (what the second videos practitioner mentions when he talks about the importance of core strength).

 

[Fetid Strumpet]

I'd rather they add new upgrades to existing masters to change things up rather than add new masters.