Missing topic...gamer harassment

[beowulfthehunter]

Just curious where my post regarding this article went to?

 

http://latining.tumblr.com/post/141567276944/tabletop-gaming-has-a-white-male-terrorism-problem

[zeeblee]

I ran into that article a couple of days ago, and am quite concerned. There was a big soapbox thread a good while ago which resulted in harassment, and I have a feeling the article is related.

[Dirial]

2 hours ago, zeeblee said:

I have a feeling the article is related.

You could say that.

[Munindk]

That article showed up on A Wyrd Place on facebook too where Nathan responded with a very long post (sunday or monday). He basically said that the auther of the article had contacted him saying that she had been harassed by Malifaux players and that Wyrd officials didnt take her seriously and even joined in on the harassment.

Apparently she demanded that Wyrd hire her to stamp out all discrimination, but when Nathan asked for any proof of this discrimination so that he could take action, she didnt not respond. Instead she has been spamming her accusations all over the web since.

This is my recollection and summation of Nathans post, dont hold him responsible for any misrepresantation on my part. You can dig out his post on the facebook group if you want to read the whole thing. I'm pretty sure the article is what prompted this thread: http://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/117520-the-importance-of-community/

[-Loki-]

My guess is that thread went to the same place this one is going to go to.

[beowulfthehunter]

Thanks, I really feel it was unfair censorship for them to just nuke the thread. As long as an adult conversation can be had, it should stay up.

[Myyrä]

I really feel that everything that happens on tumblr should be ignored for the sake of sanity of everyone involved.

[Math Mathonwy]

Here's what Nathan had to say on Facebook regarding this (since these are public posts, I think I can copy-paste them here):

Quote

 

Yeah, I've read this, and we've seen the same thing from this individual last year when she expressed herself in our forums (you can easily find it if you really want to read through all that vitriol) and then took it upon herself to hound after my employees to demand a direct talk with myself, how I am responsible for stepping up to make certain the community at large (the whole of gaming and geek society, not just Malifaux) is policed, and to bring her on board to be the Woman's Ambassador to Gaming and to make certain that Wyrd is doing it right and proper as we're apparently misogynistic asses here. Considering that a large majority of the work force here is female, the males are outnumbered, I sort of kinda doubt we're all running around scratching our crotches and telling the ladies how they do it for us.

Somewhere in there apparently threats have been issues to her in my name as well as the company's and supposedly that there are copious amounts of evidence that has been made available to the Canadian law authorities as well as the FBI (which apparently were soon to swoop down and confiscate our entire office computers and arrest us if I didn't take the time to take her Skype call). That never happened. We also never received any copies of said evidence so that we could follow up or ban individuals from this end.

After multiple phone calls, e-mails, etc, etc, etc she and her circle of friends have been told to please do hand over any and all evidence to the authorities as we do not condone or tolerate any behavior of that matter, beyond that, all harassment calls without evidence beyond someones anger at the community could be directed to our on retainer lawyer who would love nothing more than to bill me for the privilege of telling folks legally what and where to go with it and to please bring forth legal evidence so that it can be sorted directly. To date that has never happened, and neither myself, the company or any individuals within it condone such behavior and if we did find someone of that ilk among us, it would be a rather large surprise, and a swift exit out the door to authorities.

As this issue is almost a year old at this point and I've yet to see any evidence to date, nor been contacted by authorities in any manner, I can only assume that someone is wanting to stir the waters and get attention. I neither know this individual personally nor what has happened in their history, what I do know. is what she has tried to do to this company and community with zero evidence of any misbehavior from anyone at Wyrd.

 

And Eric's as well:

Quote

 

First of all, thank you Alex for your post, I really appreciate another perspective here. It's very disheartening reading stories like this and it's great to get your story as well. For those people who know me, you know that these issues are very important to me, and something that I've taken a lot of time and effort focusing on this, up to, and including personally sending Anita Sarkeesian a game pitch.

But the true reason the post was so upsetting to me is that it's so frustrating how obviously manufactured it is. (and by manufactured I can't claim it's all false, I truly don't know, but I'm talking about the way it's presented). Amazing people, both men and women, are working SO hard against the perception that much of the problem is "make believe" so seeing a story like this sets forward progress back in terrible ways. If you search the internet for the worst stories of what has happened to women in gaming, you'll find a list much like what she's posted. I completely believe that this is happening, and it's terrible, and that is a HUGE problem. However, when someone comes forward claiming all those worst stories have happened to to them personally, and in some cases word for word from the posts of other women, it's a terrible disservice to those women, and all those looking to make real change in our gaming culture. Finally, the claim that I, or any of my employees, are the cause of the harassment, while offering no evidence that I can act upon, is that proof for me that at least a portion of this was manufactured with made up facts. It truly makes me sad and angry.

I have to admit when I first read this, I got angry at myself for my thoughts that this was primarily attention seeking behavior. I felt like I was just another part of the problem. Was I just being another one of those guys who instantly believed that a woman talking about all the terrible experiences she may have had was just making it up? But I realized that the anger was not at me, but at the fact that due to this post, the next women who truly needs and deserves the support for something terrible that happens may not get it.

Change needs to happen, which is the point that we definitely agree on. But behavior like this which is so divisive and pointing fingers at all the wrong places, definitely makes that change harder, not easier.

I do send my deepest sympathies to this person however. Whether or not any of the events she has posted about are true (and for much of it not related to Wyrd, I truly don't know), she is obviously deeply affected by an issue that is close to my heart and also deeply affects me.

 

 

[Math Mathonwy]

The blog post has created quite a stir in many corners of the net and it is an extremely important topic. I'm just a bit saddened by how much of the discussion gets lost in the particulars and how many are willing to dismiss the problem since they haven't seen it (usually due to being white men).

Wyrd just released a new set of guidelines for conduct - I'm not sure if the blog post and the discussion around it was a catalyst for those guidelines but either way the guidelines were a good idea.

[Lucidicide]

Hey all,

These threads can cause quite a bit of a stir and our moderation abilities are limited at night, so to get a better handle on things the first post was hidden. I've started a topic for the discussion here:

 

Thanks everyone for their concern about these important issues.

[doombladez]

Thanks for the quotes Math, I appreciate being able to see their side of things. 

[Aphotic]

On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 8:54 AM, Math Mathonwy said:

The blog post has created quite a stir in many corners of the net and it is an extremely important topic. I'm just a bit saddened by how much of the discussion gets lost in the particulars and how many are willing to dismiss the problem since they haven't seen it (usually due to being white men).

Wyrd just released a new set of guidelines for conduct - I'm not sure if the blog post and the discussion around it was a catalyst for those guidelines but either way the guidelines were a good idea.

What you just did is discrimination. Being a white male, I find it highly offensive to -assume- I don't view harassment and discrimination seriously.

 

Having just had my first daughter 3 weeks ago, I find it even more inflammatory to assume that, as a white male, I am not sensitive to the notions of sexual harassment or harassment in general.

 

Of course, that is all lost in the vitriolic shit storm promoted by agitprop, unsupported assertions, and unrealistic demands made by internet trolls and demagogues peddling their wares to anyone who wants to listen. To assume that I am not sensitive to the notion that my daughter may and probably will be the focus of some form of sexual harassment, just because I am white, is about as baseless and idiotic an assertion that can ever be made.

 

More to the point of this ridiculous article; where to begin? First of all, we all agree, and the company clearly agrees, that any form of harassment is unwarranted, baseless and should be scorned. That's quite clear from the sundry codes of conduct endorsed here by Wyrd, PP, and various other gaming outlets.

She posts this article, with nothing but anecdotes, and expects the gaming community to react in a manner favorable to the only outcome she desires - hiring her as a gaming ambassador to curb sexism in gaming.

 

And people see nothing wrong with this?

 

No one here is condoning any form of harassment or sexism. The OP of that article needs to come to terms with whatever happened - and move on with life. You will never end any form of sexism or discrimination. I won't either, as proof of this post, end the notion that I am immune to sexism as a white male (which again is a batch of baseless, racist, sexist BS).

 

People are people. Some people are bad. It is not representative of the gaming hobby, but of the individuals who act that way. People need to stop making this everyone else's responsibility.

 

DO I agree that the cops need to take this more seriously? Absolutely. But that's a discussion to be had with local government, not internet forums for gaming companies.

So please - think before you post.

[Math Mathonwy]

7 minutes ago, Aphotic said:

What you just did is discrimination. Being a white male, I find it highly offensive to -assume- I don't view harassment and discrimination seriously.

 

Having just had my first daughter 3 weeks ago, I find it even more inflammatory to assume that, as a white male, I am not sensitive to the notions of sexual harassment or harassment in general.

I'm a white male with two daughters. But you misread me - I didn't say that white males are probably oblivious to discrimination, I said that people oblivious to discrimination tend to be white males. Which is a huge difference in meaning.

That said, there was a big thread on this subject on another part of the forum and it was just shut down for a while to let the topic rest and emotions cool and such, so I don't think that continuing this conversation here is a good idea. Maybe @Aaronwill come around and lock this thread?

The other thread is worth reading, btw (see link a few posts above). Lots of good discussion and informative links and such.