Starting Paint help

[frostwolf428]

Hey guys, I was wondering is if I could get some advice on a good starter paint. So far I've been bumming paint from my friend and I figured it high time I get my own (and get him a replacement bottle or two). Ive been using Citadel and Vallejo, I like citadel, solid colors and A LOT to chose from but I find the bases are a little too thick for the high level of detail in the Wyrd models.  So I'd like to get a Vallejo paint set seems like a good place to start (feel free to suggest something else) but there are a lot of different Vallejo paint sets out there and I was hoping for some suggestions. Ideally something that has a good spectrum of colors and does not break the bank . On a side note the crew I'm going to be painting next is the Colette crew, Cassandra reds and blond hair Colette blue/purple metallic for the mannequins of course same with the birds and something creative for the performers. Thanks for all of the help, and sorry if I posted this in the wrong spot I did not see anything for painting (aside from iron painter) and this seemed like the next best place to get advice. 

[Iron Syndicate]

Vallejo have fantastic 16-color sets that give you pretty much everything you need.

Depending on budget I would recommend their "Introduction" set, followed by "Advanced" and rounded off with "Specialist". 

They've also got some 8-color sets for more specific things like Skintones, Washes, etc. But even the Introduction 16-color set will cover most things you will need with a bit of color mixing.

[RustAndTheCity]

I prefer Vallejo paints myself. They are available everywhere, good bottles, wide range, they don't change the range every 3 years.

I find Vallejo game color to be the best line for Malifaux. I use model color a lot for historical models and model air for airbrushing.

[tmod]

Vallejo is great, but also check out Army Painter. They have a smaller range, and tend to lack a lot of the wonderful muted colours of Vallejo, but they have great quality and consistency (in my experience better consistency than Vallejo) and tend to be cheaper.

I have the full Army Painter range, and use Vallejo for colour tones not in the AP range (like the wondeful deck tan amongst others)...

[frostwolf428]

Thanks for the advice. I think I'm going to get a 16 color set like iron syndicate suggested, So I will have paint, I have brushes (yes I need better ones but there is no need to start a brush discussion or we'll be here all day) what are some other things you find really helpful when painting?

[tmod]

2 minutes ago, frostwolf428 said:

Thanks for the advice. I think I'm going to get a 16 color set like iron syndicate suggested, So I will have paint, I have brushes (yes I need better ones but there is no need to start a brush discussion or we'll be here all day) what are some other things you find really helpful when painting?

Get one of the top brands kolinsky brushes, size 1 or even 2, and a brush soap. Expensive, but will save you money and frustration in the long run. I prefer W&N Series 7, but Rosemary, Raphael and DaVinci should be just as good.

Get a ceramic tile as a palette, or better yet a wet palette. You should get the regular suspects from the arts supplu store; matte medium (not gel!), retarder and flow improver. Get a few empty dropper bottles and mix up some gunk for thinning paint. I use a recipe from an old article on the reaper site, but google it and you get the idea. I think a good rule of thumb should be to include at least 50% water in the gunk...

This should set you up for most painting techniques, and you can even mix your own magic washes, glazes, translucent paints etc...

[frostwolf428]

whats retarder and flow improver? there are wet palettes for sale? my friend just kind of made his own, for thinning paint i thought you just used a paint thinner 1-2 drops, I've seen little bottles for sale at the risk of sounding really dumb...there more to it then that?

[wolpertinger_press]

Retarder is used with acrylic paints to slow the drying time, useful when you want to blend wet paint into another section of wet paint.

Flow improver helps you get harder edges or flatter, more even color. It isn't used a ton in miniature painting, as far as I know.

 

Generally speaking, you can get away with using distilled, not tap, water for thinning paints for miniatures. Tap water can have junk in it that causes it to dry strangely, so picking up a bottle of distilled and only using it to think paints is a great idea. You can rinse your brushes in another container with regular tap water, and not have any problems.

[lusciousmccabe]

And you probably want to stay the hell away from paint thinner, it's usually spirit based and made for oil paints. When you're working with acrylics about the only thing it's useful for is stripping models and ruining brushes.  

[tmod]

9 hours ago, frostwolf428 said:

whats retarder and flow improver? there are wet palettes for sale? my friend just kind of made his own, for thinning paint i thought you just used a paint thinner 1-2 drops, I've seen little bottles for sale at the risk of sounding really dumb...there more to it then that?

Basically water is what you need to thin your paints (good point about distilled water; tap water at my place is good, so tend to forget). Trouble is water has a lot of surface tension, flow improver fixes that. Washing detergent thinned with water might do the same job, but flow improver is easier to control. Also, too high water ratio and the paint will "break down" and become inconsistent or "unmixed". Matte medium fixes that. Retarder slows down the drying time, making it easier to mix the paint and to get more even coats. Gunk is a mix of (distilled) water, retarder and flow improver. I tend to use a ratio of around 50/50  paint to gunk for most army painter or vallejo paints, more thinner for the zombicide range, less for vallejo air. If I need thinner paint I add matte medium as well.

None of these are necessary, but they will make your life easier. They're also all extremely cheap, one bottle of each will last you a lifetime! :-)

[RustAndTheCity]

I'd recommend a little lamp to paint with. I use a regular desk lamp and replaced the incandescent bulb with a full spectrum LED bulb. Poor light makes painting a challenge.

I'd also second buying a decent brush. Citadel brushes and the like are fine for starting out. Sable brushes are fantastic but if you are new to painting you may end up ruining it quickly.

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but get some primer as well. Some people prefer white, some black, some grey. To start, get a spray on primer.

Once you have the supplies, one big tip would be to paint lots of models and try different things. Experiment. Post your models and ask for feedback. 

[Omenbringer]

I would recommend an actual "primer" such as Duplicolor sandable primer (Aerosol). This will adhere better to your models than many of the so-called primers put out by the game companies. The better adhesion also helps with preventing chipping later on. You can usually find it at the local auto parts stores such as Autozone, Kragen, etc.

Many people recommend brush on primers, however Duplicolor has never failed me (and I have used it in some of the most challenging environments in the US) and I find it easier (more consistent) to apply (especially when batch painting models).

[wolpertinger_press]

3 minutes ago, Omenbringer said:

I would recommend an actual "primer" such as Duplicolor sandable primer (Aerosol). This will adhere better to your models than many of the so-called primers put out by the game companies. The better adhesion also helps with preventing chipping later on. You can usually find it at the local auto parts stores such as Autozone, Kragen, etc.

Many people recommend brush on primers, however Duplicolor has never failed me (and I have used it in some of the most challenging environments in the US) and I find it easier (more consistent) to apply (especially when batch painting models).

I use Krylon spray for plastics, and it's never failed. I agree - most game company primers leave a LOT to be desired. Gloopy, pebbly, uneven, dry...

[Omenbringer]

Krylon does come highly recommended as well. I use their Satin and Matte finishes for sealing my models when they are done. Much less prone to issues caused by challenging conditions (heat/cold and Humidity) than other products. Also easier to find and usually cheaper (especially cheaper than the oft recommended Testors Dull Coat)

[wolpertinger_press]

3 minutes ago, Omenbringer said:

Krylon does come highly recommended as well. I use their Satin and Matte finishes for sealing my models when they are done. Much less prone to issues caused by challenging conditions (heat/cold and Humidity) than other products. Also easier to find and usually cheaper (especially cheaper than the oft recommended Testors Dull Coat)

Let me ask: do you normally prime on the sprue, or wait until the models are built? I've found with some, it's much easier to lightly prime before I build and glue, but obviously it's a horrid mistake for others.

[Omenbringer]

Generally I assemble the model and then prime it.

[Pointyteeth]

Hey, just thought I'd chip in my two cents.  GW and Vallejo Game are both good choices, as is Army Painter, though GW and Vallejo Game have a much larger range.  I like GW a bit more as it seems to have more pigment that the Vallejo (which can be a little transparent sometimes).  Its really personal preference.

Rule #1 for me has always been to thin you paint.  I've only ever used tap water, but we have good water here so ymmv.  It should be thin enough that it spreads easily but not so thin that it beads up.  Its roughly 3-4 parts paint to 1 part water.  Likely it will take 2 coats to cover but it will go on smoother and more importantly won't obscure any detail (and the detail on these models is pretty delicate). 

For brushes, I find as long as it can hold a point when loaded it doesn't really matter what its made out of.  Also, don't overload your brush with paint or you'll lose control of it.  Load your brush with paint then pull it across the pallette to get rid of the excess.  For pallettes, a tile is a great idea. I've used a wet pallette from time to time and they are great, you just have to keep an eye on it as sometimes the pallette paper can get waterlogged and you get little particles of paper in the paint which sucks.

I hadn't thought of spray priming on the sprue, thats actually a pretty good idea!  I normally use brush on primer as I have more control over where it goes (again, don't want to obscure all those fine details).

Additives like flow improver and retarder are really only something I'd recommend for advanced level stuff.  Also if you are a brush licker like me, flow improver is a bad idea as its toxic.

[Zvejkus]

I recommend to check Scale 75 colors. You can buy complete series, single paints or boxes with 8 paints with all shades needed for specific color. I use them and they are great. Especially for highlighting and shading. For more advanced techniques I would choose glaze medium from Vallejo. I use it for color transitions and wet blending.

[Guildenstern]

it's worth noting, if you do use a spray primer, watch your humidity as well as really cold weather, it will effect how well it goes on the model. High humidity is bad.

[Nymie_the_Pooh]

I say use whatever you have easy access to and get started. I know too many people that held off on painting because they worried about having the right paint, the right brush, the right medium, the right whatever. It's art. There is no consistently right way to art although there are correct ways to do techniques which is what most painting advice covers. I still use craft paints from time to time and mix them with my hobby paints. GW, Vallejo, P3, Army Painter, and Reaper are all fine brands. I would pick one where you can buy local if you want just one brand because you never know when you might get the itch to paint something and have trouble mixing the exact colour you want. All of those brands mix with each other so which of those brands you buy to start is not all that important, but I understand the urge to not have to learn the properties of different paint lines to start.. If you buy a spray primer then make certain it is primer and not spray paint. I know Walmart brand only comes in grae, but it will be sitting next to flat black and flat white paint so it is easy to think they are primers as well. I feel the best things to focus on to start are simply getting paint on the model and mixing some of your own colours.