Expanding my collection; looking at a couple of Masters

[RaguRagla]

Like so many others, I seek advice on how to expand my growing Malifaux collection. I have Misaki, Yan Lo and Kirai; most of the 10T boxes (except for Masters, Dawn Serpent and Fuhatsu), the Resser Spirits and a couple of Punk Zombies.

I mainly played with Misaki, Snipers, Samurai, Torakage... the stuff I thought looked best when starting out . It worked pretty well since all the models were capable of doing a good job on their own. Also had a couple of games with Kirai, and she was quite brutal. I guess that's because nobody played against her before though... Can't say much about Yan Lo yet, not quite sure what he's best at. The crew was awesome at healing for sure.

Now that I have all three books, it's clear to me that I 'd like to get a couple more Masters! 10T will be my main faction but since most of them are Dualmasters anyway, I'd also like to branch out a little (like with Kirai for Ressers, whom I'll keep mainly 'in-theme'). Having said all that, here's why I consider getting some of the following Masters. I would greatly appreciate it, if you could elaborate on these. I also read through the wiki, but any extrainfo or opinions are most welcome

Shenlong: This one is actually a top-priority, mainly because I want Yu. However, I'm not to keen on learning Shenlong at the moment. He looks like he's some sort of combo-master with wyrd shenanigans that wont do me any good until I get a deeper understanding of the game. It also makes me dizzy trying to figure out how to best abuse his abilities, at what time and so on. However, I might be getting the Box for the Monks, Yu and the Sniper (my LGS still has a couple of those)

Mei Feng: I really like her model, but overall her box doesn't appeal to me very much aesthetically. But she looks like a lot of fun on paper with her movement-kick-punch combo trickeries. I consider her a very mobile "Streetfighter" type of master with lots of cheap constructs. I would also have a reason to field a Mechanical Rider, which is one of my favourite models across the game.

Jakob Lynch: He seems interesting for his card manipulation ability which is the main reason I consider him. Fetching cards with Samurais or Fuhatsu seems like an especially fun thing to do. Not a big fan of the Illuminated though and I don't see myself getting into Neverborn and/or the Darkened theme.

Von Schill: His Box looks solid with a lot of useful things. I would consider his Crew to be somewhat "Space Marine"ish elitists that are pretty good at what they do. I'd guess he's similar to the 10T Misaki lists I played in that each model will perform well on it's own while Von Schill will support his crew. Not really sure though. Should I want to play Misaki in Outcasts, I'd guess that Box would be a good addition.

Leveticus: I like the whole concept behind him and the fact that he can hire from a huge pool of great looking models including the Riders. He seems to be a Top Tier Master and I could totally see him lead a couple of Techo-Undead into battle. I could use my Resser models with him, but I'm pretty sure I'd rather go the Iron path. Then again, this might be not the right choice for just playing now and then.

Viktorias: Mainly because they're girls with Katanas, really. They'd probably do well with Misaki and I also like them enough for a stand-alone Crew. Plus I'd really like to try Ronin with Killjoy in way or the other.

Jack Daw: He looks extremely interesting on paper and from what I can tell, his Box is a pretty decent one. I could get his box and use Kirai's Hanged and be at 50SS already, or add any of the tormented models I have. I like his theme and background and he might be just the right choice to branch out into Outcasts. However, his Guitly don't seem to do much for Outcast Misaki - Viks or Von Schill would probably be better in that regard.

So that's that. As you can see, I'm leaning heavily towards Outcasts for maybe even a "second main faction" at some point. I'd also like to get Bishop and Killjoy which would further point towards Outcasts. Let me know what you think, especially if you own several of the above Masters and/or the ones I already have. Thanks in advance!

[Tawg]

I'm not sure what you're looking for   Can you tell me about the game?  I mean honestly it sounds like you know plenty about the options you're looking into currently.

Important information that other forum goers will not be able to fully provide you, since it's information we don't get from your end:  Are you playing casual or trying to be as tournament competitive as possible?  If tournament competitive, do you know if you'll be reaching into Gaining Grounds 2016, or if your Tournament Organizer (TO) will be simply using the material from the core book.  Also with tournaments, your choices would matter more hinging on the TO's choice for single/dual master locked list or simply faction lock for the tournament.

For casual play?  I mean, obviously anything goes, but you'll want to avoid getting too far ahead of your friends or play group just so you don't constantly grind them to a pulp, because at that point you may find that not many people want to play Malifaux (Depending on your group's tolerance for loss).

 

From the stuff you've listed, things I can say about personal experience?  The Viktorias are brutal monsters.  If you know how to use them, you will be dicing up anything the opponent doesn't want diced up.  If you are unfamiliar with their subtle movement tricks or the finesse required to execute their "kill strikes" you will find yourself wondering what the Viks even do as they are consistently killed.  Ronin are great models in general, although they don't particularly excel to the point you'd want to take a full three, and when I take them as Mercs in other Factions, it's just to fill out my 50ss typically.

I've never played Mei Feng, or Von Schill.  I think Mei Feng is a popular choice, fairly straight forward and her crew is mostly heavy hitting.  Uses her Steam vents to hinder superior ranged presence, and they can all ignore Hard to Kill with an upgrade she or Kang can bring, which is great against Ressers.  Von Schill I have heard extremely little about, and honestly I don't think people particularly favor him as a master, especially compared to the other Outcast Masters (Like Viks, Tara, Levi, Daw) who all are able to be either more specific with what they do, or simply are a very explosive combo.  I have heard however that the Friekorpsmen are somewhat lacking, though with Schill they are slightly buffed which makes them more worth taking.

Lynch is interesting.  Rising Sun + Hungering Darkness (Or Huggy), is pretty crazy if you can get that to work out.  Huggy in general is amazing powerlevel, assuming you don't throw him right into the arms of a waiting Ca attack (Rasputina, Sonnia, many random mages) which would shred him.  The mulligan for Draw 3 can be good.  I've never tried the upgrade he has which is damage = to hand size, so I can't say how well that works.  The Aces for discards is a useful ability, but you'd want to make sure you are keen on the Defensive Stance or have a good number of Rapid Fire // Flurry models with him (Punk Zombies can, Torakage, I'm sure there are more useful ones).  If you're not interested in Neverborn or his Darkness aspect though, I'd stay away.  He isn't as keyed towards 10T, although he is a good bit of manipulation of deck.

Daw I know very little about.  Levi I have never played as, or really against I think, but he is a questionable master.  He is very powerful from what I hear, and if you can "properly utilize" his tricks, he's almost on the level of making your opponent feel like "properly utilize" was in air quotes because you meant "cheating".  Depending on Scheme Pool (The core book vs Gaining Grounds 2016), he has more freedom than other masters.  He's neigh unkillable, making Assassinate impossible, but in Gaining Grounds there is a new scheme that rewards the opponent when your master takes damage or is buried, making Levi a liability rather than a pure boon.  Of course, Levi is still a monster regardless of the active Schemes, and he is known to tear people in half while ignoring anything they try to do to him.  Specifically your opponent will need to learn how to eliminate his Hallow Waifs or their "anchors" or else he can really not be dealt with, so it's a learning curve for your opponent, for sure.  I would advise avoiding him depending on how high a technical level your group has, and if you're more casual.  Casual players probably will not appreciate what he does.

Shenlong is certainly a trick-monster, although it's a bit less overwhelming when you realize you'll be focusing on one or two of the Limited upgrades based on how you want the crew to run.  You'll probably never have the Drunken Master unless you build around it, and his Low River is used to heal models when essential, and Wandering River is amazing mobility and focus.  Also very useful for Scheme disruption (If scheme markers are involved) or throwing Corpse Markers away from Ressers who may want to use them.  As you pointed out, Sensei Yu is, in fact, part of Shenlong's crew.  He is what I have come to know as the Golden Child of the 10T.  There is no master (To my knowledge) who does not benefit from him, and he can be disgustingly good.  Using Wandering River, plus his own Mighty Gust allows him to push any model up to 10" as well as having granted it Fast.  With Misaki this becomes a grave threat added to her already deadly mobility.  That 10"+Fast combo works well with any heavy hitter, it goes without saying, and with Yan Lo, Izamu would love it.  The only thing I would warn, if you are truly intent on getting Shenlong's box and excited about Sensei Yu.  Don't make him mandatory in every list.  He's amazing, no doubt.  But if you fall into the trap of wanting to use him with everything or trying to best abuse his power (Which is slightly above the curve I would say), you may fall into that same issue of players groaning or not wanting to face the "same" lists.  Even if they are different, it'll get tiresome to play against him every game.  Even though it never get's tiresome playing with him.

[RaguRagla]

Big thanks, a response like this is exactly what I was hoping for!

Sorry if I'm a bit unclear, English isn't my first language so I may sound a bit strange haha. I have a basic understanding of the game and since I've played tabletops and MtG for 2 decades and some, I'm good at learning I'd like to think. However I don't know much about the game itself. The books certainly help a lot with theorizing but without much experience, this could just be me not having a clue. I will probably not attend tournaments anytime soon, mainly because there are none around me. I guess I have a semi-competitive approach in that I would field a unit for it's effectiveness even though I don't like the looks of the model. However, I'll try to avoid this whenever possible.

Lynch is probably out for the time being; might try to get him and Huggy seperatly later. Leveticus seems like something for later too as he's likely to become an entire project of it's own? Tbh Von Schill is only on that list because I'm reading great things about the Librarian and the Trapper.

I guess I'm most interested in the Viktorias and Jack. The only problem I see myself getting into with Viks is painting. I do worry that they will look more like female Punk Zombies in the end, but that's pretty much the only reason why I'd shy away. Glasscannon style sounds good to me to actually. And Jack looks like a great addition to my existing collection for whenever I want to play something 'different' from what I have. Plus I already own a good amount of tormented models. Shenlong will be a must anyways since there is so much useful stuff in that box.

So yeah, your post helped alot already Tawg. I'm trying to get as many opionions and "reviews" on those masters, so I can decide what to add instead of just going out buy stuff without having a plan.

[Mutter]

16 hours ago, Tawg said:

If you're not interested in Neverborn or his Darkness aspect though, I'd stay away.  He isn't as keyed towards 10T, although he is a good bit of manipulation of deck.

I beg to differ here.

I've started out with Lynch as Neverborn, and I liked him a lot. Then, a couple of months later, I tried him with TT, and it's as if somebody pressed the NOX-booster on my crew!

Seriously, Sensei Yu, Shadow Emissary and Recalled Training makes this a completely different experience. I think, TT Lynch is stronger than NB Lynch, though ymmv, but they are at least equal.

In TT, there are also lots of models that profit from his aces: rail workers, tengu, monks of high river and last but not least, the TT brothers. If you have the right ace, that's an extra card for each of them. Somethimes, I take all three just make sure I draw three extra cards per turn (plus two extra if Lynch is last plus two times a mulligan (3) with the help of Sensei Yu).

[Tawg]

1 minute ago, Mutter said:

I beg to differ here.

I've started out with Lynch as Neverborn, and I liked him a lot. Then, a couple of months later, I tried him with TT, and it's as if somebody pressed the NOX-booster on my crew!

Seriously, Sensei Yu, Shadow Emissary and Recalled Training makes this a completely different experience. I think, TT Lynch is stronger than NB Lynch, though ymmv, but they are at least equal.

In TT, there are also lots of models that profit from his aces: rail workers, tengu, monks of high river and last but not least, the TT brothers. If you have the right ace, that's an extra card for each of them. Somethimes, I take all three just make sure I draw three extra cards per turn (plus two extra if Lynch is last plus two times a mulligan (3) with the help of Sensei Yu).

But that's falling hard on the Sensei Yu hard-train.  And I agree that he is not poor in TT.  His Ace tricks are fun, and certainly benefit a number of models (Never thought about Tengu, but discarding more than one Ace with them would be cool if you were in a Scheme Marker Heavy pool).  But I think he benefits much more from his interaction with the Illuminated, which are already a top notch unit, and only further excel with Lynch (And other Brilliance enablers).

I mean hell, alone Lynch isn't poor.  He's not a killing machine, but he has at least decent triggers on his pistol, and reliable damage with his Play for Blood.  But at a certain point if you deny his crew the Brilliance interaction, you start looking at Lynch as only card manipulation, which draws Sensei Yu into the mix for Mulligan, which is amazing.  But personally, I see that as more of a trap.  At least if you end up playing it too frequently.  As a wild card (No pun intended) in TT, or just as a switch up from regular sets of matches?  Yeah, I think he is pretty damn cool.

But if someone is looking to expand their collection, which means they probably have a smaller pool of masters to choose from, then you're looking at Lynch becoming a new fixture in their play cycle.  And as a regular play, if you actively dislike his Neverborn side, I feel like you are missing out on a lot of what he brings to the TT.  More over, utilizing him to his fullest potential in TT with as little Neverborn as possible ends up feeling a bit repetitive because it'll almost always include Huggy (Great model, for free? Yes), Sensei Yu (Amazing henchman, combos amazing with Lynch), and a mixture of Flurry and more specific discard goals.  Which might offer a bit of variety, sure, but I hate when cores of groups are too static (Lynch, Huggy + Yu is only 9ss, and almost always the best choice).

[Mutter]

But because of the '4 Darkened models' you can include a lot of the stuff people love about NB Lynch in TT Lynch, too. Plus all the good stuff that only TT can bring ...

Just sayin'.

And I find that apart from Lynch, Huggy and the Shadow Emissary, I rarely need anybody else relying on Brilliance. Huggy hands it out, Lynch, too, if I need to, and both Hugy and the Emissary profit from that.

My experience is that the Illuminated are often overkill and/or not autonomus enough for my liking. But horses for courses, I guess ...

[RaguRagla]

Jakob Lynch starts to get a lot more interesting just from reading what you guys have to say about him I like the fact that he "messes" with core mechanics of the game (Deck/Card/Hand manipulation). The Illuminated look solid too ruleswise, however, the box as whole does not appeal too much to me from an aesthetical POV. I guess I'll get back to him soon enough but I'm only really interested in seeing how his manipulation tricks unfold in the game.

Von Schill, Mei Feng and Leveticus are out for the time being. After reading a bit more about Levi, I realized that I neither want to field Desolation Engines nor A&D and that my idea of having him lead Abominations, Necropunks, the Uniiversity and 1-2 Riders would probably look cool but not be very effective. Mei seems cool, but she needs constructs which 10T don't have that many and I'm not looking to expand into Arcanists any time soon. Von Schill seems somewhat 'generic' and I'm not really excited about his crew, other than they would be useful to have.

That leaves me with Shenlong, whom I'll get for sure and Jack Daw or Viktorias. Both Jack and Viks seems like Crews that can be succesful 'in-theme' crews which is what I'm looking for. I'd want to get Ronin for Outcast Misaki sooner or later and I guess I might simply buy Vicotrias instead plus I'd get the Student and Taelor. Jack on the other hand would benefit from my Tormented models (Hanged, Drowned...) and he seems to be play very different from the Masters I currently own.

Any thoughts on how Jack/Viks compare to my current Masters?

Also one more question: I'd like to think of Malifaux as a game where everything you bring to the table is considered fair game, right? Or are there things one should avoid bringing to the table too often? i.E. i quickly realized that I was the only one enjoying the Ikiryo wreaking havoc in my opponnents crews and I didn't play Kirai since.

 

[Furycat]

Shenlong is definitely tricky to play well, but he is an amazingly capable and diverse master once you get the hang of him. Plus, he's a hell of a lot of fun! And frankly his box is worth it for Sensei Yu alone. He's an absolutely fantastic support henchman!

Mei Feng is pretty good, she plays quite a lot like Misaki in some regards, in that she's an extremely mobile melee master, though she leans more towards beating up on weaker models rather than the pinpoint assassination of Misaki. She has the advantage as well that the models in her box are great. Railworkers are very hard hitting, and surprisingly survivable with the metal-on-metal trigger, armour 1 and hard to kill. Plus, since they're both living and constructs they actually can work really nicely with Toshiro if you build him as a summoner, as they can drop either scrap or corpse tokens when killed, depending on what you want to summon and what your hand looks like. (Ashigaru or Komainu). They're also good in Jakob Lynch crews, since they can just keep discarding aces for their implacable assault (0). You also get Kang, who is a fantastic beatstick that also enhances your crew, giving an aura of + to hit/damage vs undead and constructs, and also an aura of immunity to horror duels. You can also get plenty of scrap/constructs for Mei to railwalk off, between railworkers, komainu, and the emberling (her totem), which can drop scrap markers at the cost of a point of damage.

Lynch is good fun to play and has a few nice card based mechanics. Huggy is a brutal killing machine, though he really doesn't like seeing solid ca attacks on the other side of the table. The best thing you get in the box besides the master/totem combo though is Illuminated, which are absolutely fantastic minions and work well in pretty much any crew. They're tough as nails, and very good in melee. They combo very well with Toshiro, since he can make them fast, and give them + flips in melee. Really good stuff.

Hope that helps.