Order of combat effects - armour and damage prevention

[CapnBloodbeard]

This came up in the last tournament I was in.  My opponent and all the table spectators (it was a highly entertaining match so a bit of a crowd!!) took one stance on this, I took another........but given neither of us took the match seriously I couldn't be bothered pushing the point.

 

Von Schill cops, say, 3 damage.  Armour, so reduces down to 2 damage.  I SS to prevent.  Say I flip a moderate.

The argument was over the Armor wording of 'still takes a minimum 1 damage' (paraphrased)

 

I believe that the damage prevention flip is done after damage is determined.  So, armor reduces damage.  2 damage is the amount that I'm determined to have taken, then I choose to SS Prevent damage.  So because the Armour has already done it's think, the SS Damage Prevention flip can reduce all remaining damage to 0.

 

I checked it in the rules and I think I had it right - anybody want to confirm/disagree?

[santaclaws01]

Page 47 of the big rule book: "After determining how much damage the [model] would take, but before applying the damage, the model may spend a Soulstone to make a damage prevention flip."

So the question is, does Armor factor into determining how much damage you take. A few paragraphs earlier on pg 46 at the bottom of Damage and Wounds states: "If damage is modified by a static value (such as the Armor Ability, or a Trigger), the final damage after the damage flip is modified." So yes, armor is factored into how much damage a model would take, meaning Armor is applied before the prevention flip is made.

 

[enderwiggin]

I'm pretty solid that the correct sequence should be Damage Prevention after the flip is made and then reduce the remainder via Incorporeal, Triggers, or Armor.

 

This is supported by the blurb on 46 talking about "final damage" (indicating those static values as the very last line of defense before the damage is applied) + the portion in damage prevention stating "Henchman and Masters have an additional defense against damage" meaning clearly this is done before final damage gets applied.

Armor itself (pg. 52) states that it only reduces damage the model actually suffers, not damage you "would have taken" as a supportive kicker.